Will This Umid Kill Pandora
- Thread starter Junebug7556
- Start date
is it the weekend yet *checks clock* - nope, not yet.
what has with all atom aspirations? are people aware what they want in the first place? here, let me try and shed some light:
* in that space pandora resides in, you want a SoC design, and the atom just recently reached this stage: paulsbo (majority of netbooks, etc) was a multi-chip design, and only menlow (AKA centrino atom) is a SoC. everybody in the embedded mobile market has been doing SoC, and intel just reached this stage - just think about that for a sec. if you are still unsure what that means, heres what: intel are struggling to get to the market segment's wattage comfort zone. the same zone arm, ppc and occasionally mips have been dwelling for generations.
* while intel are trying to get on par with the rest of the players, those upscale (e.g arm's arm11 and cortex MP designs). again, dont be confused about intels offerings (dual-core diamondville, etc) as doing the same - they dont. intels multi-core offerings lose whatever little ground intel has gained in terms of wattage - the current dual diamondville is 8W for the CPU chip alone! that is eight friggin watts for having your CPUs not idle! for reference, the PPC efika system (nettop class) is 1W for the whole system (sans video) at top spin (400MHz SoC + 128MB ddr 266 MHz + network + sound). the pandora/beagle is in that range too (~2W) but with video.
so why is it so important that the real embedded players are upscaling, while intel is trying to downscale? simple - a consumer system, be that a desktop or a nettop, or a UMPC, typically runs at a fraction of its power reserves - i.e. when the system is not idling it still does not reach 100% of its capacity most of the time. thus the platform that offers best efficiency in the "mid workload range" is the overall wattage winner. well, so far this platform has never been intel's. intel may offer the most "powerful" platforms per se, but the rules of the mobile market are quite different from the desktop - it does not bode well when your platform has twice the power at one quarter of the competitions battery span - the competition still wins.
what has with all atom aspirations? are people aware what they want in the first place? here, let me try and shed some light:
* in that space pandora resides in, you want a SoC design, and the atom just recently reached this stage: paulsbo (majority of netbooks, etc) was a multi-chip design, and only menlow (AKA centrino atom) is a SoC. everybody in the embedded mobile market has been doing SoC, and intel just reached this stage - just think about that for a sec. if you are still unsure what that means, heres what: intel are struggling to get to the market segment's wattage comfort zone. the same zone arm, ppc and occasionally mips have been dwelling for generations.
* while intel are trying to get on par with the rest of the players, those upscale (e.g arm's arm11 and cortex MP designs). again, dont be confused about intels offerings (dual-core diamondville, etc) as doing the same - they dont. intels multi-core offerings lose whatever little ground intel has gained in terms of wattage - the current dual diamondville is 8W for the CPU chip alone! that is eight friggin watts for having your CPUs not idle! for reference, the PPC efika system (nettop class) is 1W for the whole system (sans video) at top spin (400MHz SoC + 128MB ddr 266 MHz + network + sound). the pandora/beagle is in that range too (~2W) but with video.
so why is it so important that the real embedded players are upscaling, while intel is trying to downscale? simple - a consumer system, be that a desktop or a nettop, or a UMPC, typically runs at a fraction of its power reserves - i.e. when the system is not idling it still does not reach 100% of its capacity most of the time. thus the platform that offers best efficiency in the "mid workload range" is the overall wattage winner. well, so far this platform has never been intel's. intel may offer the most "powerful" platforms per se, but the rules of the mobile market are quite different from the desktop - it does not bode well when your platform has twice the power at one quarter of the competitions battery span - the competition still wins.
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Alpha2
Heroic Autobot
At first it looks like a promising device and I have no doubt that it's going to get more buzz simply because it's a windows machine. There are even videos of it playing a few 8 and 16 bit emulators and sadly it DOES play H246 720p videos, something the Pandora will apparently not be able to do (or if it can, not very well)
But I believe there are build quality issues with it aside from the obvious lack of gaming controls. Sure you can play games with it but it's not designed for that purpose. The battery life has been quoted as being anywhere from 2 to 6 hours which is far from being an optimal portable device with much dynamic potential. sure you can stick in a pocket but you're chained to finding a table or desk to use it on comfortably. I dont know how hot it'll get but I'm sure it'll find it's way in to the hands of people who will turna blind eye to it regardless. Typing can be done with thumbs as shown by videos, but it's very awkward, It really is meant to be typed on with fingers.
Ultimately the problem here is one of haveing better exposure thanks to more money and using an easy solution in the form of ajust miniturizing a windows laptop. I suspect the price is hogh for it but I dont know the conversion rates so I dont know but it cant be much less than the Pandora. If people see this first with it's big intel stickers and a familiar Windows interface before seeing the Pandor it will surely steal away potential buyers but the thing is the people who'd run ot instantly and buy it (dealing with the trouble and hassle of importing a korean computer) are probably not the type of people the Pandora is optimaly made for.
Regardless of the things it has over the pandora, the thing is there are still plenty of things that make it not as good in other areas
But I believe there are build quality issues with it aside from the obvious lack of gaming controls. Sure you can play games with it but it's not designed for that purpose. The battery life has been quoted as being anywhere from 2 to 6 hours which is far from being an optimal portable device with much dynamic potential. sure you can stick in a pocket but you're chained to finding a table or desk to use it on comfortably. I dont know how hot it'll get but I'm sure it'll find it's way in to the hands of people who will turna blind eye to it regardless. Typing can be done with thumbs as shown by videos, but it's very awkward, It really is meant to be typed on with fingers.
Ultimately the problem here is one of haveing better exposure thanks to more money and using an easy solution in the form of ajust miniturizing a windows laptop. I suspect the price is hogh for it but I dont know the conversion rates so I dont know but it cant be much less than the Pandora. If people see this first with it's big intel stickers and a familiar Windows interface before seeing the Pandor it will surely steal away potential buyers but the thing is the people who'd run ot instantly and buy it (dealing with the trouble and hassle of importing a korean computer) are probably not the type of people the Pandora is optimaly made for.
Regardless of the things it has over the pandora, the thing is there are still plenty of things that make it not as good in other areas
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streak
Active Member
I must admin, it has damn good design [ but lack of d-pads ]. But hey, i just figured out that if pandora could be released on atom architecture, it will kills whole community. Who will make any new piece of soft if all you need to do is to lauch windows on it and play what you want .... :/. Theres no competition, and that's sucks aswell. Emulators, games exclusively made for pandora, is a thing that makes you want to wait, yeah. It reminds me when EEE first come up i bought one [2G white], i thought it will be excellent for developers, ive tried to find some community i could fit 
, and when i tried to find that, i failed to do that. There no real valuable-community in eee world, because all they're doing is "hacking" the registy in windows to speed-up the windows slightly. I also have Msi Wind, and i had the same situation in there on Wind message boards.
BTW. If korean/chineses companies will still going this way, i think they also build "Pandora-clone" with gaming controls sooner or later. Its only a matter of time. As I said before, i dont think that will even makes a difference for us, now [ but maybe for future owners of pandora ].
, and when i tried to find that, i failed to do that. There no real valuable-community in eee world, because all they're doing is "hacking" the registy in windows to speed-up the windows slightly. I also have Msi Wind, and i had the same situation in there on Wind message boards. BTW. If korean/chineses companies will still going this way, i think they also build "Pandora-clone" with gaming controls sooner or later. Its only a matter of time. As I said before, i dont think that will even makes a difference for us, now [ but maybe for future owners of pandora ].
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gibberish
Active Member
theres going to be a 1GB version as well.
there's no doubt that for some people, this will do everything that they want out of pandora... but for me its not quite there. the gaming controls are the most important feature for me, that and the "built in" developer community... 2 things that the UMID doesnt have.
there's no doubt that for some people, this will do everything that they want out of pandora... but for me its not quite there. the gaming controls are the most important feature for me, that and the "built in" developer community... 2 things that the UMID doesnt have.
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lulzfish
Pandora Defense Squad
'StreaK' said:But hey, i just figured out that if pandora could be released on atom architecture, it will kills whole community. Who will make any new piece of soft if all you need to do is to lauch windows on it and play what you want .... :/. Theres no competition, and that's sucks aswell. Emulators, games exclusively made for pandora, is a thing that makes you want to wait, yeah. It reminds me when EEE first come up i bought one [2G white], i thought it will be excellent for developers, ive tried to find some community i could fit
BTW. If korean/chineses companies will still going this way, i think they also build "Pandora-clone" with gaming controls sooner or later. Its only a matter of time. As I said before, i dont think that will even makes a difference for us, now [ but maybe for future owners of pandora ].
If you're not changing the architecture, you're not really making much progress anyway, at least performance-wise.
I don't understand what you were expecting as far as an EEE community. It's an x86 system. It can already run most PC-type software.
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streak
Active Member
[cite]
I don't understand what you were expecting as far as an EEE community. It's an x86 system. It can already run most PC-type software.
[/cite]
When i firstly came up into EEE there was a project to build whole new OS for EEE, build on linux base... but time verifies that, and we have now... EEEBuntu :/ that couldnt be even properly installed on EEE 2G [2GB SSD]. There was also plans to make custom build of HaikuOS/ and re-hack of BeOS [ best os'es ] but it also failed. Haiku now OS works but without Wifi and with some sound problems on OSS.
A vision of running Haiku on EEE determines me to go ther and buy EEE.
I don't understand what you were expecting as far as an EEE community. It's an x86 system. It can already run most PC-type software.
[/cite]
When i firstly came up into EEE there was a project to build whole new OS for EEE, build on linux base... but time verifies that, and we have now... EEEBuntu :/ that couldnt be even properly installed on EEE 2G [2GB SSD]. There was also plans to make custom build of HaikuOS/ and re-hack of BeOS [ best os'es ] but it also failed. Haiku now OS works but without Wifi and with some sound problems on OSS.
A vision of running Haiku on EEE determines me to go ther and buy EEE.
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lulzfish
Pandora Defense Squad
So you were thinking, "Now that there's one specific platform, they can make really good software JUST for that"?
That would be nice, but that kind of effort just doesn't seem to happen, and it more often causes hardware to be made for the software rather than vice versa.
That would be nice, but that kind of effort just doesn't seem to happen, and it more often causes hardware to be made for the software rather than vice versa.
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streak
Active Member
I thought that i'd finally go into Haiku deving. Haiku/Beos is still known by NOT HAVING thie drivers for any new hardware , so if EEE could run it with all components working i could be in heaven. Im a laptop guy so i cant swap some components in my laptop to fit the needs of OS, thats why i hoped that will be excellent if EEE runs Haiku with all gfx / msx ... btw. working on HaikuOS in VirtualBox sucks.
, so if EEE could run it with all components working i could be in heaven. Im a laptop guy so i cant swap some components in my laptop to fit the needs of OS, thats why i hoped that will be excellent if EEE runs Haiku with all gfx / msx ... btw. working on HaikuOS in VirtualBox sucks.
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Pleng
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
- Messages
- 3,030
I think there's a version of AROS which works on the EEE. I know that somebody accepted the bounty last time I looked at the OS, and I'm pretty sure that I read an article confirming it was done somewhere.'StreaK' said:I thought that i'd finally go into Haiku deving. Haiku/Beos is still known by NOT HAVING thie drivers for any new hardware
Have a look AROS org
CODE
www.aros.org
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hells_dark
★★★
Looks good but it's not for me.
battery / arm / game controls vs x86 (windows)
battery / arm / game controls vs x86 (windows)
kuru
Laptop und Trachtenjanker
Form factor is ofc great, and i think i heard that it has Wifi and 3G.
But:
And there's a vid on YT showing a guy actually holding the thing in his hands and playing emus, does neither look comfortable nor precise using four keyboard keys as a d-pad replacement.
But:
signed'atomicthumbs' said:
And there's a vid on YT showing a guy actually holding the thing in his hands and playing emus, does neither look comfortable nor precise using four keyboard keys as a d-pad replacement.
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hch
no thanks
actually, this was discussed multiple times already, first time i remember last december:'Junebug7556' said:
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showtopic=45589&hl=
anyways, it's another ballpark altogether
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hobbyman II
Member
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- Sep 7, 2008
- Messages
- 487
hey! a subtle troll, ok, so now you`ve done your advertising stint, pick up your paycheck....the doors over there....bye
hint...just read only his posts in order...he`s selling/promoting the thing....not talking about it.
hint...just read only his posts in order...he`s selling/promoting the thing....not talking about it.
Awakening
Active Member
Not hand held
The M1 is designed more to be used on a table and not something you hold in your hands, although that's still possible. Who wants to play games on a keyboard with nothing but their thumbs?
Get a netbook
If you are considering buying an M1 you should consider getting something like a 10" netbook instead. It will be more powerful and better in every way. If you want something really cool, get an Ion (nVidia) powered device and you can play more recent 3D games and watch 1080p movies and connect it to your HDTV.
Pandora is hand held
You only get a Pandora if playing games wherever you are is important to you. Because it's made so you can play it while you hold it you can use it on the buss, in the bed or while standing in line. It's the most powerful hand held gaming device, not the most powerful mobile device.
The M1 is designed more to be used on a table and not something you hold in your hands, although that's still possible. Who wants to play games on a keyboard with nothing but their thumbs?
Get a netbook
If you are considering buying an M1 you should consider getting something like a 10" netbook instead. It will be more powerful and better in every way. If you want something really cool, get an Ion (nVidia) powered device and you can play more recent 3D games and watch 1080p movies and connect it to your HDTV.
Pandora is hand held
You only get a Pandora if playing games wherever you are is important to you. Because it's made so you can play it while you hold it you can use it on the buss, in the bed or while standing in line. It's the most powerful hand held gaming device, not the most powerful mobile device.
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PoisonedV
Yeah, I'm a GIRL gamer, what of it?
that would work, if they were actually planning on selling them in the US in 2009 and actually had enough money to buy people to go around posting it to forums'hobbyman II' said:
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cb88
The mighty inverse laplacinator
@streak there is no wifi in Haiku because there is no wifi support at all yet... there is a guy working on it now for is thesis porting the FreeBSD Wifi stack so you should have wifi by the end of the year since thats about when he has to be done iirc hes doing an atheros driver port 5k series
What should work on the EEE with Haiku Sound with OSS installed and ethernet and maybe 2d graphics acceleration there is no 3d graphics acceleration for Haiku yet although there will probably be a gallium3d port hopefully someone will pick it up for GSoC
I can't see getting real work don't a screen that small (though its huge for a handheld gaming device... or PDA/mid whatever) and i kinda have to have x86 for schoo (xilinx webpack 7.1i is evil) so the pandora is out for me :-( looks like im going with a 10in acer which will run haiku fine and should have an atheros chip or some sort for wifi
What should work on the EEE with Haiku Sound with OSS installed and ethernet and maybe 2d graphics acceleration there is no 3d graphics acceleration for Haiku yet although there will probably be a gallium3d port hopefully someone will pick it up for GSoC
I can't see getting real work don't a screen that small (though its huge for a handheld gaming device... or PDA/mid whatever) and i kinda have to have x86 for schoo (xilinx webpack 7.1i is evil) so the pandora is out for me :-( looks like im going with a 10in acer which will run haiku fine and should have an atheros chip or some sort for wifi
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Mithrildor
I Haz Custom Title
-
This UMID kills itself, its a x86 machine. That means you wont see a battery lenght longer than 4 hours on a machine that size.
Also no dedicated gaming controls.
It fits worse in your pocket
+
x86 play without a port required
the keyboard looks nice
The pandora is way better, but this is close.
This UMID kills itself, its a x86 machine. That means you wont see a battery lenght longer than 4 hours on a machine that size.
Also no dedicated gaming controls.
It fits worse in your pocket
+
x86 play without a port required
the keyboard looks nice
The pandora is way better, but this is close.
hobbyman II
Member
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2008
- Messages
- 487
QUOTE
that would work, if they were actually planning on selling them in the US in 2009 and actually had enough money to buy people to go around posting it to forums
THAT would work if the only people on this forum came from the USA, since thats not the case then "dissing" any potential competition is a good move, paid or fanboy, I detect more than little bias, his mind is already made up.
(as is mine....yield to my superior prejudice mortal .... )
that would work, if they were actually planning on selling them in the US in 2009 and actually had enough money to buy people to go around posting it to forums
THAT would work if the only people on this forum came from the USA, since thats not the case then "dissing" any potential competition is a good move, paid or fanboy, I detect more than little bias, his mind is already made up.
(as is mine....yield to my superior prejudice mortal ....
)
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