Will There Be Any More Progress With Snes Emulation...?

[Pickle]

I dont really get threads like this. Why does everyone think that if Zodttd and Unai stop working on the PSX stuff that suddenly a magical SNES emulator will come out the clouds.

Threads like this go against what the GP2X is meant to be, its a "free" and "open" system to do whatever you want to use it for. So if you want a perfect SNES emulator then start learning how to write one, but dont slam other people desires/goals over your own. If someone wants to right a 1 fps N64 emu then go ahead, if thats what they want to use thier GP2X for.

Personally Im excited with progress made on either side, I love to see either a faster/better emu for either the SNES or the PSX. But I dont think for one second that development on one effects the other. The PSX guys have never touched anything on the SNES side neither has any of the SNES guys done anything for PSX.

 

[Tobriand]

Hey, Squidge! How about an answer to the original question?

"Yes"


Cool.

 

[christo930]

I dont really get threads like this. Why does everyone think that if Zodttd and Unai stop working on the PSX stuff that suddenly a magical SNES emulator will come out the clouds.

Threads like this go against what the GP2X is meant to be, its a "free" and "open" system to do whatever you want to use it for. So if you want a perfect SNES emulator then start learning how to write one, but dont slam other people desires/goals over your own. If someone wants to right a 1 fps N64 emu then go ahead, if thats what they want to use thier GP2X for.

Personally Im excited with progress made on either side, I love to see either a faster/better emu for either the SNES or the PSX. But I dont think for one second that development on one effects the other. The PSX guys have never touched anything on the SNES side neither has any of the SNES guys done anything for PSX.

I can definitely see your point, but it would be nice to see the talent going towards something that is attainable rather than a technical demo. I don't think that playable psx emulation is a realistic goal, but a full speed highly compatible snes emulator is. So while I would not trash the guys working on the psx emu, I would let them know, if they are indeed interested, that my interest lays in fully working emu's not tech demos. If someone talented working on a n64 emulator for the GP2X dropped the N64 emu and fixed the pcengine emu or the snes emu or any of the other too slow or incompatible, yet attainable emulators it would help the gp2x far more than a 1 frame every 10 seconds emulator no matter how advanced the emulated system is. And it's not like the GP2x will grow into it, since it's not a pc and not going to get any faster in the future.

Chris

 

[Pickle]

I dont really get threads like this. Why does everyone think that if Zodttd and Unai stop working on the PSX stuff that suddenly a magical SNES emulator will come out the clouds.

Threads like this go against what the GP2X is meant to be, its a "free" and "open" system to do whatever you want to use it for. So if you want a perfect SNES emulator then start learning how to write one, but dont slam other people desires/goals over your own. If someone wants to right a 1 fps N64 emu then go ahead, if thats what they want to use thier GP2X for.

Personally Im excited with progress made on either side, I love to see either a faster/better emu for either the SNES or the PSX. But I dont think for one second that development on one effects the other. The PSX guys have never touched anything on the SNES side neither has any of the SNES guys done anything for PSX.

I can definitely see your point, but it would be nice to see the talent going towards something that is attainable rather than a technical demo. I don't think that playable psx emulation is a realistic goal, but a full speed highly compatible snes emulator is. So while I would not trash the guys working on the psx emu, I would let them know, if they are indeed interested, that my interest lays in fully working emu's not tech demos. If someone talented working on a n64 emulator for the GP2X dropped the N64 emu and fixed the pcengine emu or the snes emu or any of the other too slow or incompatible, yet attainable emulators it would help the gp2x far more than a 1 frame every 10 seconds emulator no matter how advanced the emulated system is. And it's not like the GP2x will grow into it, since it's not a pc and not going to get any faster in the future.

Chris


But what makes you think that guys that develop a PSX emu can fix your SNES emu? I just dont get the "SNES wont run game X, PSX dev's you suck, fix my SNES" mentality (note im not accusing you of this). I think its kind of selfish of the community to make demands on developers for thier own selfish desires. I think the correct action to take is to ask can someone fix my SNES emu to run game X, will a SNES dev fix my game X. All other projects shouldnt even enter the discussion.

By the way, PSX emu has come a long way. A lot of 2D games are fully playable. Fortunately Zodttd didnt listen to the nay sayers and was able to do what he thought and wanted to do. Now they have some ideas about using the second core that open up some new possibilities.
Also for most of the SNES games I needed to run pocketSNES is pretty decent. Its not always 60 fps, but enough to run most of them. I would hope it either improved or replaced by something even better.
I think the GP2X has a lot of potential for both emu's.

 

[rx_shorty]

Hey, Squidge! How about an answer to the original question?

"Yes"


Good to hear this!

 

[DaveC]

I couldn't give a crap about how good a good looks, or how "technically advanced" it is. I'm all for game play and some of the older consoles like snes concentrate on that rather than graphics. You can't beat a bit of Donkey Kong Country !

I don't know but alot of SNES games have pretty good graphics. There are alot that are gorgeous, they are just not 3D. To me 3D does not automatically mean good graphics.


There are alot of PSX games that look like crap.

I dont really get threads like this. Why does everyone think that if Zodttd and Unai stop working on the PSX stuff that suddenly a magical SNES emulator will come out the clouds.

Who thinks that? I didn't read that anywhere

 

[Pickle]

I couldn't give a crap about how good a good looks, or how "technically advanced" it is. I'm all for game play and some of the older consoles like snes concentrate on that rather than graphics. You can't beat a bit of Donkey Kong Country !

I don't know but alot of SNES games have pretty good graphics. There are alot that are gorgeous, they are just not 3D. To me 3D does not automatically mean good graphics.


There are alot of PSX games that look like crap.

I dont really get threads like this. Why does everyone think that if Zodttd and Unai stop working on the PSX stuff that suddenly a magical SNES emulator will come out the clouds.

Who thinks that? I didn't read that anywhere


oh boy here we go!

 

[Orkie]

I dont really get threads like this. Why does everyone think that if Zodttd and Unai stop working on the PSX stuff that suddenly a magical SNES emulator will come out the clouds.

Who thinks that? I didn't read that anywhere

Best post on GP32x today .

 

[MajorShake]

Hey, Squidge! How about an answer to the original question?

"Yes"


hell yea! right on squidge, i wish i could donate and help (long story shot, bad auto accident, lucky to be walking) but as soon as i have some money expect donation!

 

[RockOut]

I couldn't give a crap about how good a good looks, or how "technically advanced" it is. I'm all for game play and some of the older consoles like snes concentrate on that rather than graphics. You can't beat a bit of Donkey Kong Country !

I don't know but alot of SNES games have pretty good graphics. There are alot that are gorgeous, they are just not 3D. To me 3D does not automatically mean good graphics.


There are alot of PSX games that look like crap.


I agree but likewise, there were a ton of crappy SNES games. I'm just commenting on how pointless buying a GP3X would be in order to emulate SNES and Genesis if you already have a GP2X. You won't get any nicer emulation so why plunk down $200 even if you do love GPH?

An 800x600 screen is much bigger than screens SNES games were designed for and WIFI won't help for games from a world where cell phones didn't even really exist for the average user. You might see gains from say 50 fps on a GP2X to 60fps on a GP3X because of the faster processor and much more optimized OS but generally, I don't really see too much of a reason to buy one for SNES and genesis emulation unless you don't have a GP2X or a GP32 or you have a "generous" financial situation.

The best reason that I see is much smoother emulation of 3D games since while some may not like it, 2D games gave way to 3D games at around the turn of the century for a reason. One can simply achieve greater immersion into a 3D game than a 2D game. That doesn't mean that I will not play Genesis on a GP3X, it just means that I will instead purchase a GP3X in order to play games like F1 2000 racing or Mario 64 (since N64 is possible if that game could be ported to a 70 mhz Nintendo DS). BTW, Mario 64 is perfectly playable on a PII 400mhz computer with 2d video processor, so a 333mhz arm with 3d processing capabilities should have no issues.

Anyway I will try not get out on a tangent, but I have been around on the scene for about 3.5 years since the FLU was released. I have purchased both a GP32 and GP2X in order to support the scene and in order to play my classic games on the go. However, since my needs for playing classic games on the go have been met, I will personally see no need to purchase a GP3X (probably like many others) unless some of these newer consoles become emulated.

Sonic 1 is fun, but I can already play it.

 

[shinra]

Well i remember squidge to let his emu to get dust just because some complaints about the render methods he used.

For snes I only want to play terranigma, chronno trigger and seiken densetsu 3, and there's 2 out of 3 .

EDIT: A yes, I forgot bahamunt lagoon.

 

[DaveC]

I'm just commenting on how pointless buying a GP3X would be in order to emulate SNES and Genesis if you already have a GP2X. You won't get any nicer emulation so why plunk down $200 even if you do love GPH?

An 800x600 screen is much bigger than screens SNES games were designed for. .., 2D games gave way to 3D games at around the turn of the century for a reason. One can simply achieve greater immersion into a 3D game than a 2D game.

Well that is still flawed.

For one SNES is no where full speed with all effects. Yes you can crap down the sound quality, get rid of rasters, lose the transparencies and skip every three frames now while overclocking as far as you can to get something that is kind of like a SNES. But with this new hardware you can get all effects, good sound, 60 FPS, full speed. Right now SNES is good on some games, others are too slow. With the new they all should run very good, if not near perfect. 800x480 is bigger but when you display at 2:1 scale you get pretty much the same size display and same pixel size as the GP2X.

Then you have other emus that currently have issues that will be much improved on a faster system. GBA, CPS2, CPS1, MAME, PC-Engine, Amiga, C64, and even some other classics that have trouble now like Atari 7800 etc. You also have a whole lot of PC games like open TTD that would actually be playable due to a touchscreen and the ability to display a full VGA screen.

Yes 2D games gave way to 3D. That is kind of the point too, everything now is 3D. You could also say why bother with yet another 3D system when there are loads of other systems that do that too. Yet another 3D handheld may bring about a big yawn to many that already have PSPs and DSs as well. 3D homebrew is also alot harder to do. Yes PSX will be nice for those that like it but again how big of a draw is that going to be when the PSP does full speed PSX right now? As far as immersion it is pretty hard to get "immersed" while playing on a small 4" screen. While it is good to have 3D too I don't think that will or should be the main thing.

 

[RockOut]

Dave, you're spot on. I understand that this new system will doubtlessly make all existing 2d games much better. I'm just wondering whether or not it will be worth the dough. For me, the vast majority of 2d games that I have tried on older emulated systems have run without any major hiccups. In addition, I simply don't care that I would have to turn down the graphics a bit to get some SNES games running at full speed. I've already spent close to $500 on GP32/GP2X stuff and don't get me wrong, I have loved both handhelds. I just want something that will be worth my money.

Anyway, why put a 800x600 screen to waste on upscaled SNES graphics?

btw: By "immersion", I don't mean how big you can make the screen physically. I mean how realistic the game is. Not realistic as in everyday realistic, but realistic as in how much one can connect with a particular game.

For example, in Prey when the main character's girl friend got turned into a giant alien-humanoid and YOU are forced to kill her, that is more immersive than seeing a small pixellated monkey falling into a hole.

 

[ruckage]

Anyway, why put a 800x600 screen to waste on upscaled SNES graphics?

It isn't all about emulation, there are plenty of us homebrew developers who would welcome the use of a higher resolution screen (and the other new hardware additions) for some of our projects.

 

[Squidge]

For one SNES is no where full speed with all effects. Yes you can crap down the sound quality, get rid of rasters, lose the transparencies and skip every three frames now while overclocking as far as you can to get something that is kind of like a SNES. But with this new hardware you can get all effects, good sound, 60 FPS, full speed. Right now SNES is good on some games, others are too slow. With the new they all should run very good, if not near perfect.

Right, shall we squash this before the new hardware comes out and your disappointed and moaning on the forums? Yes, it's possible, but it's not likely to happen with the existing code base. Before you say "Before you tested and said..." I did, but that was without transparency. Remember that some games on the 2x run at about 18 fps, so even if the new processor doubles that, it's still not going to be anywhere near 60 fps for a lot of games.

 

[P-J]

I agree but likewise, there were a ton of crappy SNES games. I'm just commenting on how pointless buying a GP3X would be in order to emulate SNES and Genesis if you already have a GP2X. You won't get any nicer emulation so why plunk down $200 even if you do love GPH?

Because people want one device that can do everything. Why would you carry around two devices with you when one would do?

Also, ever heard of Kaillera?

 

[Joshwaan2k]

Squidge, I think you done a killer job with your Snes emulator.

I'm able to play Bio Metal and Black throne pretty much full speed.

I look forward to future updates keep up the great work mate.

Cheers

Josh

 

[Exophase]

For one SNES is no where full speed with all effects. Yes you can crap down the sound quality, get rid of rasters, lose the transparencies and skip every three frames now while overclocking as far as you can to get something that is kind of like a SNES. But with this new hardware you can get all effects, good sound, 60 FPS, full speed. Right now SNES is good on some games, others are too slow. With the new they all should run very good, if not near perfect.

Right, shall we squash this before the new hardware comes out and your disappointed and moaning on the forums? Yes, it's possible, but it's not likely to happen with the existing code base. Before you say "Before you tested and said..." I did, but that was without transparency. Remember that some games on the 2x run at about 18 fps, so even if the new processor doubles that, it's still not going to be anywhere near 60 fps for a lot of games.


If the next handheld can't do fullspeed SNES (not counting games with special chips) with no frameskip and all the effects then I'll throw a fit and try to optimize it, I don't play SNES on handhelds but that would just be ridiculous.

Hopefully I'll be able to make the same statement for GBA too :/

 

[Pickle]

For one SNES is no where full speed with all effects. Yes you can crap down the sound quality, get rid of rasters, lose the transparencies and skip every three frames now while overclocking as far as you can to get something that is kind of like a SNES. But with this new hardware you can get all effects, good sound, 60 FPS, full speed. Right now SNES is good on some games, others are too slow. With the new they all should run very good, if not near perfect.

Right, shall we squash this before the new hardware comes out and your disappointed and moaning on the forums? Yes, it's possible, but it's not likely to happen with the existing code base. Before you say "Before you tested and said..." I did, but that was without transparency. Remember that some games on the 2x run at about 18 fps, so even if the new processor doubles that, it's still not going to be anywhere near 60 fps for a lot of games.


If the next handheld can't do fullspeed SNES (not counting games with special chips) with no frameskip and all the effects then I'll throw a fit and try to optimize it, I don't play SNES on handhelds but that would just be ridiculous.

Hopefully I'll be able to make the same statement for GBA too :/


/sarcasism
Forget about GBA all that matter's is my SNES games with transprancies!

 

[Squidge]

Woohoo! Go for it Exophase, you can optimise on the 2x to start with and then port to the new platform later on