Will there be any anti-theft protection in Pyra?

[___]

I rather suspect most thieves wouldn't bother to boot it up, they'd just take to to the nearest pawn shop to see how much they could get for it.


-Neelix

this. believe me... people who know how to use dd do not steal phones/electronics from the train. junkies and fucked up people do. if they are not able to sell quickly what they stole, they'll dump the loot somewhere (garbage container, public trash can, shrubbery on the roadside) because it would be evidence otherwise. It doesn't matter to a junkie how much the hardware is really worth if they can get anything out of it.

I'd rather have an open device which is unbrickable, than a potentially safe one which can be easily stolen anyway with no means to recover it, that has been compromised by some protection mechanism that could potentially lock me out.


Encrypt data that needs to be encrypted and never leave your stuff openly in public places. Not the thieves need to be tought a lesson, the people who carelessly trust others with their private data do! Thieves will stay thieves, they know that it's not ok, but we won't teach them. after all they need to eat/shoot up anyway.


also: the antitheft apps that are available are of no use at all if authorities won't accept them as evidence. I've heard a lot of stories where people actually had concrete data (like an adress or exact location of an internet cafe etc) that they tried to provide to the police and were told that the police wasn't able to use the information because of privacy laws. so yeah... no dice.

 

[Dimacus]

Perhaps just replace the initial boot screen image (if any) with the text "This device has been stolen or lost, contact me at [whatever] for a finders fee".

That way you increase your chances of getting the device back, though you may have to pay the finder fee, but it's better than not getting it back at all.

You could even, if you are paranoid enough, set it up so it gathers as much information as possible first (cell towers, gps if any, nearby wifi ap's, etc) then send the information (encrypted or whatnot) to a specified email, then show the message.

 

[Grench]

My Android phone lock screen has a message, "Please call 555-555-5555 to return my phone." My wife's number instead of the 5s of course.

Locks keep the honest people honest. Professional crooks know that the fastest way through a locked door is often through the wall beside it.

 

[moxie]

Sometimes literally, that. We've recently had a minor building scandal, where builders decided to import a way of building houses that is very cheap, very quick and works very well...if your house happens to be in, like, spain, where it is hot and dry. The technique is basically to build a frame of wood, put styrofoam insulation in the frame, and then "panel" the outside by painting on a very thin plastic-and-sand paint. 

As an environmental wall, it works, as long as that paint is undamaged. But as soon as there is a slight dent, (you put up a mail box? The kid kicked a ball against the wall? There was a hailstorm?) water gets in, doesn't get out, and the frame moulds and rots and collapses. At least in the swedish climate of nine months a year of wind and rain

But that wasn't the relevant part here. The relevant part here was that if you want to break in to such a house, you can literally cut your own door, anywhere around the house, with a bread knife. That is quality for you

Sorry, offtopic rambling. I'll be a good boy now.

Oh, but I'd like the pyra to come with this kind of lock-and-brick anti-theft tech about as much as I'd like to live in such a house! And for much the same reasons...Back on topic!

 

[thatgui]

sorry for the OT, but what ?

Locks keep the honest people honest.

If 'honest' people need a lock to stay honest, they aren't really in the first place. Horrible train of thoughts that is - just like in the military "if you don't lock up your locker you seduce your comrades to steal your things".

 

[Neelix]

If 'honest' people need a lock to stay honest, they aren't really in the first place. Horrible train of thoughts that is - just like in the military "if you don't lock up your locker you seduce your comrades to steal your things".

In a perfect world that would be true. In the real world people sometimes give into temptation, where they might not if it took more effort, so there's something to be said for such a deterrent.

Either way there's still merit in Grench's approach. If a person who finds his phone is honest then they have an easy way to contact him to return it. (And there are such people out there, I've had items I've managed to drop or leave behind somewhere returned to me on more than one occasion.)

-Neelix

 

[_wb_]

Just a thought:

Getting your Pyra stolen is one way to lose it. You can also lose it by simply leaving it lying around somewhere. This is how I usually lose stuff. Not by thieves who steal it from me, but just me being stupid and forgetting to pick something up after I intentionally or unintentionally drop it somewhere.

Now what happens if you lose your Pyra somewhere and it gets found by someone? Chances are that the person who finds it is actually going to try to be helpful and try to return the item to its owner. But of course they're not going to spend a lot of effort just to figure out who it belongs to.

If you have anti-theft stuff that locks the device completely to anyone who is not the owner (using passwords, encryption, etc), then it is impossible to figure out to whom it belongs, and as a result, chances are slim that you'll ever get it back.

If however you provide some way for the finder to identify the owner, it will help a lot. This could be just a physical sticker with your name / address / telephone number, it could be a message on a lock screen or login screen, it could be whatever.

Also if your device gets stolen, the best you can hope for is that the thief at some point throws it away, and then it gets found by someone who then tries to return it to you. So even in case of theft, helping bona fide people to return it to you is the important thing I guess.

 

[Natsu]

Or/and an email. I realize _wb_ and Grench isn't perfect proof, but the best possible outcome.

 

[thatgui]

Either way there's still merit in Grench's approach. If a person who finds his phone is honest then they have an easy way to contact him to return it. (And there are such people out there, I've had items I've managed to drop or leave behind somewhere returned to me on more than one occasion.)

There sure is merit in this, but it has no connection to his "broader" statement Grench made.

But including something like that in the boot process could be tricky (and easily overlooked), altering a certain lockscreen code breaks the rule to only alter external code where absolutely necessary and creates a "restriction" to a certain deskop > if ED would decide, later on, to change the default DE environment, he would need to decide wether he is able to invest resources to port the changes or removes a feature.

Maybe its best to just put a sticker either on the underside or in the battery compartment ?

 

[50p_Ski]

If altering lock screen code is not a viable approach, can't the background image simply be replace with one that has the owners info overlayed on it?

 

[Binky]

I think this may well be a case where low-tech is best.

A sticker on the back will do far more good than any remote/auto-bricking.

Thats not to say some kind of phone-home and tracking system isn't a good idea, as long as its optional and well encrypted, and does not hinder the user reflashing with whatever OS they like.

Phoning home can save you from accidental, as well as malicious loss.

I might suggest that the device being in one place for a long time is a good trigger for phoning home, if that place is not on a whitelist.
Most people might leave thier pandora for a long time (many hours) at home, or at work, perhaps at a hotel if travelling, but not many others.

If:

indicators of movement (mobile phone masts, GPS, wlan APs, accelerometer) show the device is stationary,

and if identifiers of position do not match the whitelist,

and if phoning home is enabled and configured

and a network connection can be automaticaly established (might we run into problems with networkmanager being a piece of junk?)

elif:

A magic(read: suitably authenticated) message is recieved requesting information

then:

all available position&movement data should be sent to a user-defined email address and/or mobile phone number

Crucially, no part of such a system should rely on a central server or database. It does not protect against a skilled, trained, malicious attacker, but there is very little that does not have serious adverse side-effects that does.