Will The Pandora Be Finished And Ship By May Of 2010

[MDave]

They better post some good news quick or the place is going to 'splode, by the looks of things.

If there is silence this long it means something has gone wrong. And people are going to start killing kittens canceling their pre-orders.

 

[WolfSpider]

I bet the cases arrived on the 21st. So it usually takes MWeston 2 days to check the cases.
So today is probably when we'll get some news, hopefully.

 

[Sphinxter]

...
i see that craigix and MWeston voted yes on this poll. does that mean that we might actually get them sometime in march? is it really almost time?

Wait, the people behind the project voted for the most positive result? How surprising. I have nothing bad to say about them, but that could be as much as PR, it doesn't mean anything. For the record, I voted 'Most Likely'.

I remember in a business communications class I took we were taught to always OVER estimate the time it would take to get something done when communicating with customers. This way, they expect things to take long and are pleasantly surprised when they do not. Clearly this team has not done that- maybe because they were overly optimistic to an extreme. I can't help but feel like I'm being carrotted along though.

My vote was yes on this poll though. Maybe that's naive, and the more I wait the more I'm feeling like I might be

To be fair, no company I have ever worked for has over-estimated. They always give the best case scenario, and were always wrong. See, there is a gap between sales and production. The sales people always give the best estimate to get the sale, then the people actually producing are made to be the bad guys.

Honestly, what your class taught you is never implemented in the real world. To teach such a thing is silly and not preparing for how things actually go. If sales people were honest, they might not get the sale and lose their commission. To them, better give the happy unicorn version, get their money, then blame the production people for failing to meet the time-frame.

Just a little real-life 101.

Thanks for the dose of reality.

 

[Monk]

I remember in a business communications class I took we were taught to always OVER estimate the time it would take to get something done when communicating with customers. This way, they expect things to take long and are pleasantly surprised when they do not. Clearly this team has not done that- maybe because they were overly optimistic to an extreme. I can't help but feel like I'm being carrotted along though.

To be fair, no company I have ever worked for has over-estimated. They always give the best case scenario, and were always wrong. See, there is a gap between sales and production. The sales people always give the best estimate to get the sale, then the people actually producing are made to be the bad guys.

Honestly, what your class taught you is never implemented in the real world. To teach such a thing is silly and not preparing for how things actually go. If sales people were honest, they might not get the sale and lose their commission. To them, better give the happy unicorn version, get their money, then blame the production people for failing to meet the time-frame.

Just a little real-life 101.

While every company I've worked for in probably about the last 20 years or so has tried to over-estimate, and has breathed a sigh of relief when thinbgs have come close to the wire, but had happy customers when the project comes in early and under budget. That may be impossible when the company is a huge conglomerate, but when you're a small company (say, under 20 employees) it's not that difficult to do, if you want to. I have, self employed, and so have my previous few employers in general (though some of the scrambles when they DIDN'T overestimate, or didn't overestimate by enough, were farcical).


There's always SOMEONE out there who has a contradictory experience!

I'm not voting, it's that pointless. Even if they've ordered products for the second batch - well, they've only just paid for the cases. Ordering means nothing if they haven't paid for them - the orders could be cancelled any time before delivery. By either end. So there's little to no risk there, and if OpenPandora HAVE paid for everything needed for a second batch - including the SOCs which I believe were on a long delay at one point - then I'd be even more concerned about their ability to survive any mass refund situation.

 

[Pleng]

I bet the cases arrived on the 21st.

What are you willing to steak? I'll give you 12 to 1 on that bet.

 

[Sphinxter]

No red meat, please.

 

[BackAssward]

...
There's always SOMEONE out there who has a contradictory experience!

To be fair, I was more responding to his teachings and not about OP. I was also referring to larger corporations where there is actually a seperate group for various departments (one of say 20 is a bit smaller than I was talking about, say 50-75+). Though 50-75 still seems small, that is where it seems to get split up... now you have a Director or VP of sales... and that is where my scenario starts.

I suppose it was a bit off topic, as it doesn't refer to OP, but it was in response to the post.

 

[aesir911]

I bet the cases arrived on the 21st. So it usually takes MWeston 2 days to check the cases.
So today is probably when we'll get some news, hopefully.

it appears that your statement is flawed...

 

[TheRain]

To be fair, I was more responding to his teachings and not about OP. I was also referring to larger corporations where there is actually a seperate group for various departments (one of say 20 is a bit smaller than I was talking about, say 50-75+). Though 50-75 still seems small, that is where it seems to get split up... now you have a Director or VP of sales... and that is where my scenario starts.

I suppose it was a bit off topic, as it doesn't refer to OP, but it was in response to the post.

Well anyway- it is probably good to say at this point that I'm sorry if it sounded like I was passing judgement on the team for these. I wont do that because I know that:

1. The things that have been said were probably based on the best information at the time.
2. The interactions with the team on this forum tend to be more real-time so we get information as it comes, whether it's really reliable or not.
3. When they are working with the chinese factory they may be getting similarly carrot leading stories and timelines.. so what we see may be just the trickle down of that.

And I mean, this is a very special project done by a very special team so I don't want to discount that in any way.

I guess I'm just starting to border on being vexed about the wait about now.

Hopefully things start pumping for real in the next weeks, I'm counting on it.

 

[Monk]

To be fair, I was more responding to his teachings and not about OP. I was also referring to larger corporations where there is actually a seperate group for various departments (one of say 20 is a bit smaller than I was talking about, say 50-75.

Ah Although I got that you weren't talking about OP specifically, just "in general", it was the sweeping generalisations that got me - things like:

Honestly, what your class taught you is never implemented in the real world.

When, in my working life, I've had bordering on the opposite experience, that and

Just a little real-life 101.

seemed a little.. harsh. Fortunately, I see TheRain bouncing back in a perfect example of how these forums (forums everywhere) should work - instead of getting his back up at you (as I may have looked like I was doing) he's, well, just getting along. Everyone looks at everything said and moves towards an understanding, rather than battle lines

I suppose it was a bit off topic, as it doesn't refer to OP, but it was in response to the post.

Pfft, all understood here - and the world is so contextual nowadays that it's hard to pinpoint where the grey line becomes truly "off topic" IMHO. At least, at times - I found it relevant. Ish

 

[Dunny]

I see TheRain bouncing back in a perfect example of how these forums (forums everywhere) should work - instead of getting his back up at you (as I may have looked like I was doing) he's, well, just getting along. Everyone looks at everything said and moves towards an understanding, rather than battle lines

It's quite a shame these forums really don't work like that - when even the mods themselves dish out warnings to folks because the mod himself has gotten the wrong end of the stick :-(

D.

 

[Sphinxter]

I'm sorry but it's completely inane and totally naive to believe you can actually compete out there by over estimating everything.

 

[Monk]

I see TheRain bouncing back in a perfect example of how these forums (forums everywhere) should work - instead of getting his back up at you (as I may have looked like I was doing) he's, well, just getting along. Everyone looks at everything said and moves towards an understanding, rather than battle lines

It's quite a shame these forums really don't work like that - when even the mods themselves dish out warnings to folks because the mod himself has gotten the wrong end of the stick :-(

D.

Agreed, the forums don't work that way anything like as often as I'd like

I'm sorry but it's completely inane and totally naive to believe you can actually compete out there by over estimating everything.

inane:asinine, devoid of intelligence, •Lacking sense or meaning; silly, fatuous, vacuous, or complacently and unconsciously foolish, silly, empty and pointless

I don't know about overestimating "everything" - that seems a bit extreme, and if the estimate turns out to have NOT been too long, as events cause "unexpected" delays, then it wasn't an overestimate, was it? But this would seem to be one of those occasions, I think, where the forum isn't working in the idealistic manner I'd prefer (but don't expect to happen constantly, or even very often, sadly).

Personally, I don't think that lying to your customers and working in a totally paranoid and constantly immoral atmosphere for ones whole life is necessarily unavoidable. I don't say it's easy to work to "best principles" - but then, the easy path has rarely been the better one. Lots of books teach that. The majority of customers I've seen benefit from such an approach have been very happy customers, and a source of advertising for further business.

The very comments about how this forum work serve as another example of "nice vs nasty". Agreed, much - too much - of the forum is back-biting insulting nastiness, but there are also excellent examples of people coming together, clashing, and working out that they have more in common than they have in conflict (and even some people just getting along, from time to time). There is no "always done this way" IMHO, we're too varied a species for that. There's good, and bad, everywhere you look.

 

[mali]

I'm sorry but it's completely inane and totally naive to believe you can actually compete out there by over estimating everything.

It works on the old Enterprise. Scotty is good at overestimating

 

[psj3809]

Please don't lock topic, and it VERY vital to what I'm planning.

I'm going on a honeymoon to Japan for two weeks and the Pandora would serve as an EXCELLENT portable browser and help transfer media from my video camera to an external HD. It would also help with moving files via Wifi and in-flight entertainment. I need to know if I need to make plans with a small laptop or just wait for the Pandora.

Mate, its your honeymoon, forget computers !!! Have some time away from computers/the internet/gadgets ! Do what everyone else does and have a few CF cards to take pictures.

 

[Sphinxter]

I see TheRain bouncing back in a perfect example of how these forums (forums everywhere) should work - instead of getting his back up at you (as I may have looked like I was doing) he's, well, just getting along. Everyone looks at everything said and moves towards an understanding, rather than battle lines

It's quite a shame these forums really don't work like that - when even the mods themselves dish out warnings to folks because the mod himself has gotten the wrong end of the stick :-(

D.

Agreed, the forums don't work that way anything like as often as I'd like

I'm sorry but it's completely inane and totally naive to believe you can actually compete out there by over estimating everything.

inane:asinine, devoid of intelligence, •Lacking sense or meaning; silly, fatuous, vacuous, or complacently and unconsciously foolish, silly, empty and pointless

I don't know about overestimating "everything" - that seems a bit extreme, and if the estimate turns out to have NOT been too long, as events cause "unexpected" delays, then it wasn't an overestimate, was it? But this would seem to be one of those occasions, I think, where the forum isn't working in the idealistic manner I'd prefer (but don't expect to happen constantly, or even very often, sadly).

Personally, I don't think that lying to your customers and working in a totally paranoid and constantly immoral atmosphere for ones whole life is necessarily unavoidable. I don't say it's easy to work to "best principles" - but then, the easy path has rarely been the better one. Lots of books teach that. The majority of customers I've seen benefit from such an approach have been very happy customers, and a source of advertising for further business.

The very comments about how this forum work serve as another example of "nice vs nasty". Agreed, much - too much - of the forum is back-biting insulting nastiness, but there are also excellent examples of people coming together, clashing, and working out that they have more in common than they have in conflict (and even some people just getting along, from time to time). There is no "always done this way" IMHO, we're too varied a species for that. There's good, and bad, everywhere you look.

Inane = ridiculous

Something lost in the translation there.

 

[Monk]

inane:asinine, devoid of intelligence, •Lacking sense or meaning; silly, fatuous, vacuous, or complacently and unconsciously foolish, silly, empty and pointless

Inane = ridiculous

Something lost in the translation there.

Not that I can see - OK, I didn't quote the EXACT insult (to ridicule someone is probably not a nice thing) but I listed just about every other synonym.

I'd disagree with that assessment, and so would our customers - many of whom are fed up with the kind of lying, cheating, underquoting behaviour you seem to be saying is impossible to avoid. They've avoided it with me, and every company I've worked for, in the most part, for the last 20 years or more. They don't find it inane to be able to come in usually on time and on budget (or better) - and I enjoy working with customers who don't get fed up with me because of deceit that I've managed to do without.*




*This should NOT be taken as a statement of OpenPandora's practices specifically, but is a direct response to the statement that it's "ridiculous" to not underestime time and costs on every job.

 

[Bigun]

Please don't lock topic, and it VERY vital to what I'm planning.

I'm going on a honeymoon to Japan for two weeks and the Pandora would serve as an EXCELLENT portable browser and help transfer media from my video camera to an external HD. It would also help with moving files via Wifi and in-flight entertainment. I need to know if I need to make plans with a small laptop or just wait for the Pandora.

Mate, its your honeymoon, forget computers !!! Have some time away from computers/the internet/gadgets ! Do what everyone else does and have a few CF cards to take pictures.

Oh trust me, it's ALL about the honeymoon. I'm taking a video camera and want to capture all the sites and things that we do in this place that we have wanted to see for a very long time. The Pandora's purpose is to be the medium of moving files from a camera to an external HD. On a sony handycam, 12Gb do not last long, unless I dummy down the quality, and I do not plan on doing that!! Also, it's the only way we will be able to keep in touch with our parents while we are away for 2 weeks. They all have stated they will be very worried about us. I'm sure they would be interested to know that we landed and got there ok.

If the Pandora doesn't make it, I'm going to take a small palmtop of some sort. But let's face it, the Pandora would be the perfect computer for travel!

 

[Monk]

Oh trust me, it's ALL about the honeymoon. I'm taking a video camera

Sometimes, you really HAVE to read the whole post before even mentally reacting... :wub:

 

[Poem58]

It works on the old Enterprise. Scotty is good at overestimating

Exact lines from Start Trek III: The Search For Spock

James T. Kirk: Mr.Scott. Have you always multiplied your repair estimates by a factor of four?
Montgomery Scott: Certainly, Sir. How else can I keep my reputation as a miracle worker?

Taken from the full scene:

James T. Kirk: How much refit time before we can take her out again?
Montgomery Scott: Eight weeks, Sir, [Kirk opens his mouth] but ya don't have eight weeks, so I'll do it for ya in two.
James T. Kirk: Mr.Scott. Have you always multiplied your repair estimates by a factor of four?
Montgomery Scott: Certainly, Sir. How else can I keep my reputation as a miracle worker?
James T. Kirk: [over the intercom] Your reputation is secure, Scotty.

Came to mind as soon as I read your post.
I think it's better to overestimate than underestimate, but in the case of the Pandora it seems even an overestimate would likely have run over anyway. All estimates have been way off and who knows how long until it ends. This project is estimate-wise a complete disaster. But when finished, it will seem brilliant and hopefully we will all be so happy that it will all be forgotten about.
Let's just hope the next device is done differently or maybe even ready to ship before estimates are given. A second round of this may not go so well in the future.