Will It Ever Come Out?

[___]

I am not even sure how to respond to stealth bagel's weird theory. I am sure as heck that there was and still is a lot of criticism regarding the gp2x. I am dissatisfied with the shitty stick, I am dissatisfied with the stupid way gph treats the community, I am dissatisfied with the hardware flaws it has (no dma, no usb 2.0, etc). I have never been flamed or been called a fanboy because of expressing that before. If you can word a sentence like a grown-up semi-intelligent person and you are able to express criticism in a constructive way YOU WILL NOT BE FLAMED! I can't see why people think that! Noone has been flamed because they criticized any of the products. In fact, a lot of people frequenting these boards who will contribute and discuss do not even have gp2xs. Some of them own gp32s and never were interested in the gp2x.

The only way to get flamed on these boards are the following:
- asking a very dumb question (one that has been answered millions of times, is covered in the readme of the program, asking for warez...)
- insulting a respected member for no reason
- being annoying (trolls, spammers, general idiots)
- not sticking to the rules of the board (repeatedly posting in the wrong topics)

I can't see why you people don't understand this. If you want to discuss something seriously, then you are welcome to do this. If you have doubts about the pandora, people will listen and also answer.

Just please stop excusing stupidity and ignorance by accusing us of being fanboys. It's getting ridiculous. Noone gets "eradicated" because they don't like the gp2x/gp32/pandora/psp/gba/whatever... fucking get over it. If you get flamed, that is probably because you behave like an idiot! Obviously there is members who will take the piss occasionally but there is more than enough people who will defend noobs when something like that happens. I have been on these boards for quite some time, longer than you have stealth bagel, and I think I can say that I have had a pretty good impression of what people are like here.

 

[BaDToaD]

MaGain, think of the board as The Three Billy Goats Gruff. If you come one here trolling, expect to be butted into fairyland. So slink off back under the bridge there's good chap.

Oh and just for info I'm not a GP2x Fanboy. I have a GP32 and didn't consider the GP2x a big enough upgrade to bother with. The Pandora on the other hand, interests me greatly.

 

[imec]

Actually, people can get flamed for just about anything. It doesn't matter if you are right or wrong, if this forum was devoted to the Nintendo DS, and I claimed that the DS is a cheap piece of overpriced doggy poop (yes, I own one, and I have licked it thoroughly), then I would most likely receive the whip against my ass. But if I were to claim that here, I would most likely be treated with a very different attitude. Yes, Pandora becoming vaporware is a terrible nightmare. Is it impossible? No, it certainly isn't. Is it likely? I don't think so. Should it be considered a major concern for the majority of ROM humping kleptomaniacs? Probably not, but then again, only time will tell.

 

[atomicthumbs]

I am not even sure how to respond to stealth bagel's weird theory. I am sure as heck that there was and still is a lot of criticism regarding the gp2x. I am dissatisfied with the shitty stick, I am dissatisfied with the stupid way gph treats the community, I am dissatisfied with the hardware flaws it has (no dma, no usb 2.0, etc). I have never been flamed or been called a fanboy because of expressing that before. If you can word a sentence like a grown-up semi-intelligent person and you are able to express criticism in a constructive way YOU WILL NOT BE FLAMED! I can't see why people think that! Noone has been flamed because they criticized any of the products. In fact, a lot of people frequenting these boards who will contribute and discuss do not even have gp2xs. Some of them own gp32s and never were interested in the gp2x.

The only way to get flamed on these boards are the following:
- asking a very dumb question (one that has been answered millions of times, is covered in the readme of the program, asking for warez...)
- insulting a respected member for no reason
- being annoying (trolls, spammers, general idiots)
- not sticking to the rules of the board (repeatedly posting in the wrong topics)

I can't see why you people don't understand this. If you want to discuss something seriously, then you are welcome to do this. If you have doubts about the pandora, people will listen and also answer.

Just please stop excusing stupidity and ignorance by accusing us of being fanboys. It's getting ridiculous. Noone gets "eradicated" because they don't like the gp2x/gp32/pandora/psp/gba/whatever... fucking get over it. If you get flamed, that is probably because you behave like an idiot! Obviously there is members who will take the piss occasionally but there is more than enough people who will defend noobs when something like that happens. I have been on these boards for quite some time, longer than you have stealth bagel, and I think I can say that I have had a pretty good impression of what people are like here.

xnopasaranx for mod!

 

[prairiefire]

...ROM humping kleptomaniacs...

hahah. That's pretty funny

 

[hal9000]

That's more true of gp2x discussion before pandora was announced, when no one wanted you to say bad things about the 2x because if you do it might scare away developers and dry up the flow of emulator updates...

My feeling is that fanboys have always been a small minority here. People have always criticized GP2X. For example, most people have acknowledged the technical superiority of the PSP over the GP2X much before Pandora was planned, which is not so common in this kind of community.

Things tend to go in the wrong direction this days, but I think that gp32x.de is still a relatively mature and tolerant community. Of course there are exceptions...

 

[Magnulus]

From the day I registered at this board, there have always been threads discussing the faults of the GP2X. The stick, the lack of USB 2.0, the lack of SDHC, the bad TV-out, the lack of info from GPH, the price as compared to the PSP, the battery life, etc etc etc.

And now we're arguing about the Pandora instead. I see no difference, apart from that people are now arguing about something that in essence doesn't exist yet, and the things that can realistically be argued have been argued about at least ten times each. There are a ton of threads here that just keep going regardless of the fact that there is nothing new to discuss. There are just people bickering over grammar use and semantics and attitude. And, of course, bickering about bickering.

When I say JUST, I don't actually mean that. There is SOME valuable conversation going on here, but not a lot. I find the "Pandora is guaranteed to rock!!" crowd just as annoying as the "Pandora sucks so bad!!!" crowd, simply because we can't really know yet how it works or looks until there is an actual, working, physical copy in our hands or in the hands of someone we trust.

 

[StealthBagel]

What xnopasaranx and Hal9000 described is idealistic though, most discussions here delve into extremely immature material very very quickly and very few go beyond one page without some sort of idiotic bickering... I enjoy a good argument but not when it basically devolves from an intelligent but heated exchange of ideas to "yeah well you're a fag" "yeah well your mom's dick is small." Which it usually does....

there's less gp2x fanboys here than people who attach themselves to the device in such a way they will blind themself to problems as long as no alternative exists, railing against all alternatives with the claim of 'open source vs. the oppressive CLOSED ... PSP/DS/whatever). Even if they don't know what open source is, or that a console doesn't even need an open-source OS to run unsigned software, or that the GP2x originally shipped with no source code and GPH just used linux because it was free.... not to further some idealistic 'free code for everyone' hippie mentality.

These sort of people label everyone else as a fanboy of ___ platform (PSP, NDS, PC, whatever) to more easily rationalize their viewpoint by labelling every other one as a blatant attack on their strange obsessive collective. But watch when a new handheld is proposed like pandora, how they slowly start opening their mouthes about all the things they didn't like about gp2x or GPH. why?

I'll tell you why, beforehand anyone who spoke ill of the machine was somehow being a fanboy, was denying the splendor of 'open source'/communism/the word of jesus/let's all hold hands and hug a tree/whatever. Forum activity would cease, emulators would stop being updated! The streets would flow red with blood and locusts would devour their ROMs...

This forum might be more mature than some, but trust me, the average internet forum is no standard of mature discussion. If you think otherwise, you are kidding yourself...

 

[christo930]

@christo930: seriously, I am tired of people coming on here and starting topics that have been covered millions of times before just because they need to tell everyone how sceptical they are. It has been said before that there is no release date as of yet for good reasons (like not wanting the same idiots ranting about how they were cheated by everyone responsible for not getting their precious console on time of the release date when something happens that keeps it from being released). What is it with all the people thinking we are mindless fanbois who will crush criticism? It's not that you have to celebrate every bit of information about the pandora to be accepted here. Criticism, well constructive criticism is welcomed here.

Blah blah blah "I am a victim of fascist free speech hating nerds because my topic 'Pandora is a worthless piece of shit and a scam' was closed"... I am just tired of it and I am sure everyone else is. Stop pretending you are a victim of a vicious conspiracy.

RUDE INSULTING REPLY

It is a well known fact that there are no real prototypes as of yet. Nothing to be shown to the general public. The website is not even finished as you surprisingly noticed yourself. If you want information, read the threads on this forum or have a look here: pandora.bluwiki.org

If there is no device to show off, just conceptual designs and bulk hardware, why promise a date the device might be released to people who will scream "vapourware" at first sight of a new device? Why even risk losing your integrity like that? That would just be plain dumb. If people would read more of the information on here, maybe stupid questions wouldn't be asked and people wouldn't react so annoyed.




I very politely stated some moderate critisism of the Pandora and all I got was some rude nasty replies. My complaints can be summed up like this;

1) The machine was probably not going to be released in the spring of 08, nor was their a particular reason to rush for one.

2) It was priced very high compared to A) other portable game consoles B) The Gamepark machines it is competing with..

3) The keyboard doesn't appear to be a very good keyboard

4) gp32x.de is the only regularly updated english speaking website devoted to gamepark machines and is being overrun with Pandora posts.

5)Might segment the already small community into insignificance

6) That the GP2X was far from tapped, especially for home brew games and that an introduction of a new console is premature.

I personally think every one of those points is valid to some degree or other and I got insults. Furthermore, there are people on this site who have a financial stake with the Pandora, and why we would all like to think that they would be the ones most likely to listen, it's usually the other way around this late in the design stage. So they want to discredit criticism. And it's not just me, just about every person who has criitisized the design or price point has been met with rude comments and insults or blind reassurance... Like "Just trust me, you'll love it". This hurts my favorite line of game machines. Gamepark, while not perfect, has given this community more or less what they wanted. There has been some stumbling blocks along the way. Battery life could be better, but AA's are available on every corner in the developed world, so it beats a built in lithium which they're might not be replacements for if GP goes under. The JS could be better, but you get used to it and all thumbpads suck for certain game types like pacman or mspacman. The firmware update software sucks, but otoh, do you really need to downgrade your firmware? etc

Chris

PS.. Most of the above (what I am replying to) does not involve me. I have never had a topic closed, and that I can recall the only topic I have ever started about Pandora was to ask if any developer had any interesting projects they were planning for the Pandora that couldn't be done on the gp2x and from what I remember was a decent thread.

 

[coldfish]

I think this thread (and similar ones) is a result of boredom more than anything?

As Magnulus said, no one knows just how good/bad this thing will be and idle speculation is probably a waste of time.

If the community's attitude toward the GP2X is an example, Pandora's joypad would want to be perfect for one thing. ;oP

 

[hal9000]

What xnopasaranx and Hal9000 described is idealistic though, most discussions here delve into extremely immature material very very quickly and very few go beyond one page without some sort of idiotic bickering... I enjoy a good argument but not when it basically devolves from an intelligent but heated exchange of ideas to "yeah well you're a fag" "yeah well your mom's dick is small." Which it usually does....

This is wrong. Your view on the forum is strongly biased. Most discussions are technically oriented and does not involve any kind of trolls. Many people here are technically competent, friendly and helpful.

Of course if you come to a topic called "Will It Ever Come Out?", you know what to expect. And even here I don't see anything looking like "yeah well you're a fag".

But watch when a new handheld is proposed like pandora, how they slowly start opening their mouthes about all the things they didn't like about gp2x or GPH. why?

I did not see increases in GP2X criticize since Pandora is discussed. GPH and GP2X have always been criticized. The main change is the existence of this kind of useless threads (I know, I am responsible of that too, and yes, I am bored).

 

[lubidog]

@Christo...
1. Why is this a complaint? In fact, what does this sentence mean? Do you want them to rush and make a bad job or do you want them to wait and make sure that what you will buy will be actually finished?

2. It is certainly not priced very high when you consider what it offers and it is not just competing with the GP2x. And if you want it to be on a similar price range to the GP2x, then you can't have such a powerful machine. Simple. An if it costs too much for you then don't buy it. I think anyone who actually understands what it takes to build such a machine (or, like me anyone who is prepared to listen to people who do) would admit that if the team can bring it in at this cost then we will have a bargain.

3. Well, how do you know? Have you actually typed on it? Certainly discussion over the keyboard is welcome here. But just "The keyboard looks rubbish" threads are worthless. And the poll we had should have ended the "I don't want a keyboard" threads long ago, but still they come....

4. Yes, there are lots of posts about the Pandora. And most of them stupid posts by idiots like this one! So, er...what is your point? Or can we agree on this one?

5. This one really is crazy. What do you want? To keep the GP2x community as small as possible? Or are you afraid that the Pandora might really do well and kill the GP2x? The Pandora if it is a success will certainly harm development for the GP2x, just like it did for the GP32 before it. But that is life, sorry! Otherwise I would still be on my Speccy. And this is the point for most of these trolling negative people. They just want to keep playing their old machines. Well, you can! The emulators will always be there for you. But some of us want to advance and have the latest toy, it's why we work to earn money etc. The people that come on here and make constructive criticism are never flamed! The people behind the Pandora answer their points and are grateful to them! But the posters who just "It costs too much" or "We don't need it" are flamed every time. And rightly so. If the Pandora is a success then it will open this community right up and we will have many more brilliant devvers with us! And than can only be GOOD!!! It's called evolution. When the GP2x was announced there were many people here worried about their GP32s. Now they are doing the same to the Pandora. Madness.

6. Wrong, just plain wrong. Who are you to tell me that I should stick to an old console? I wanna have the new thing. This is the real fascism here, "You will not have a new toy until you have finished playing with the old one!" I still love my GP2x, but use it mostly for movie watching. I still use my GP32. But stop telling me that I can not have a new toy! I have seen this argument so often, as each new console is announced. And it is just a stupid one! If people didn't think they could sell a new machine they wouldn't make it. Let them make what they will and take the risk.

And that is the short of it. I'm sorry but your questions, complaints were either just daft and impossible to understand, or in no way constructive, as unarguably demonstrated by your last one-you just don't want this machine yet! And you wish to inflict your will on the rest of us who do! And sorry to pick on you, but you are indicative of many of your kind.

To Stealth B. This post isn't meant at you, as you have made more constructive and helpful comments. But your last post was a bit weird and I agree with Xnop. Just because I defend a certain machine does NOT make me a fanboi! But I am just so fed up of these threads pretending to be constructive, but really just "I don't want this yet!" threads.

 

[Exophase]

I very politely stated some moderate critisism of the Pandora and all I got was some rude nasty replies.

That's an awfully slanted thing for you to say. Where are these rude nasty replies, you mean the one I made to you here? http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showt...9860&st=15#

Because I don't think you were just "very politely stating some moderate criticism" of Pandora. Saying that it won't be released in the spring solely because you don't expect products to be released then is weak, but moreover it's saying off the bat that the Pandora team are unreliable. They deserve the benefit of the doubt before you jump on them for something they haven't done. If it IS delayed until winter 2008 then we can talk about not expecting them to keep release ranges. Saying that people shouldn't post about Pandora here because it's a "Gamepark forum" is unfair and you're in no position to say such a thing because they aren't your forums and you aren't the one who has decided their purpose. And saying that GP2X hasn't been pushed nearly as far as it could be is unfounded and can be taken as disrespectful to developers.

I'm not a Pandora fanboy at all, I dislike the design as much of a lot of people but I think the big difference between me and people making some of these posts is that I'm not a GP2X fanboy either, I didn't just buy a shiny new F200 that I'm worried will now be abandoned, I actually think GP2X rather sucks. Even worse than a GP2X fanboy is a GPH fanboy, fortunately those are in few numbers! (yet somehow still exist)

Constructive criticism can be useful, and a lot of what's said about Pandora falls under this. But then again, some of the posts are more of the tone "we don't want your kind here, stay away from our GP2X", which is anything but constructive. Saying it won't be released in spring, costs too much, is stealing away GP2X devs isn't constructive. Trying to deter people from being excited about it isn't constructive (and isn't going to work). Complaining about it having a keyboard isn't constructive because this is the device it's aiming to be and it isn't going to change - I don't like it either, but there's no point going on about it. Suggesting alternative designs probably isn't constructive anymore because it's pretty certain now that this is the basic design they'll have.

EDIT: And complaining about the price is not constructive, because craigix directly asked "will you be willing to pay £200 for this level of hardware?", something people almost unanimously agreed to. The SoC is set in stone and that's determining the base price of the unit. For the most part it's not negotiable and I don't think anyone could realistically expect it to be. Your complaints are mostly not of the nature "these are some things you could do to make Pandora better" but more "guys, Pandora is going to suck so you'd better not anticipate it", which appear suspiciously motivated by a desire to protect your GP2X purchase.

 

[quartercast]

SNIP

Hear hear! And Stealth Bagel, most of the childish insults on this forum come from you. Hypocrit.

 

[Deed]

And complaining about the price is not constructive, because craigix directly asked "will you be willing to pay £200 for this level of hardware?", something people almost unanimously agreed to.

"Almost unanimously" ? I guess you mean "something a handful of fanboys almost unanimously agreed to"
Seriously, price is going to be the major drawback of this geekish device.

The SoC is set in stone and that's determining the base price of the unit. For the most part it's not negotiable and I don't think anyone could realistically expect it to be.

Yep, this is the problem. Imho it was not very smart to choose a powerful but expensice chip. It would have been far smarter to fix a retail price for the unit before actually designing it (e.g. 200€), then fix design to hit this price target.

 

[realyst]

@christo

If you come to the board making insulting statements displaying the maturity level of a retarded hamster(there is no way you can make me read your parent post on this thread and think it's isn't immature), you will get immature, furious or impatient answers. That is both expected, obvious, and maybe even called-for.

But you appear in denial. So I, being bored, tired and otherwise amused by a good web trouncing, will explain this to you in greater detail using varying levels of sarcasm and wit:

QUOTE

Will the pandora ever come out? Looking at openpandora.org I see nothing but a poorly designed website. Is there a release date? Are there even plans to make it?



Will the pandora ever come out?
Sarcasm:No. Craigx has been pulling our leg this whole time. Actually, this forum is only a way for him to get our contact information to sell to spammers.

Serious:This statement was sarcasm on your part. In a rather impatient or possibly insulting tone. Either way, it certainly wasn't polite.

Looking at openpandora.org I see nothing but a poorly designed website
Witty:Well....you have a point there.

Serious: Even though the site is as ugly as sin, you could probably have phrased that a little less harshly if you were expecting flattery. Especially in light of your first sentence.

Is there a release date?
Sarcasm: We're keeping it secret from you. We only want some selective people to get it and force the rest of you to look at us with envy.

Serious: This is an old saying: "Use the bloody search button". Seriously, I can understand this behavior in threads that grew to suh behemoth sizes as the original announcement post, but heck, three bloody short threads down you would have gotten an answer.

Are there even plans to make it?
Sarcasm: Nope.

Serious: Come on. This encompasses all the reasons from the last two nitpicks: read the damn forum, search the damn forum, and use your damned head before typing.

QUOTE

http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showt...9860&st=15#



The only person exhibiting any level of snarkyness on that thread was you, Christo. Though Exo did call you on it on the before last post of the page, but still only aiming the slightly blunter paragraphs to your own blunt theories of how craigx is using Pandora to take over the homebrew mobile world in an effort to devalue GPH and promote his own 'ill fated' console in its place, even though he does and probably plans to continue selling both.

There we go. I'm out of word juices.

 

[___]

@exophase, lubidog,realyst,hal900: Wanna form a justice league of geeky defense with me? I got cookies... and punch will be served... and we can have costumes. Oh, and we beat people up for being impolite, then exophase steps in and kills all their technical arguments with his superior knowledge of hardware. B) B)

Okay, that was a little immature of me, but you gotta have some fun aswell.

I think everything has been said. Pissed off but still on point comments and opinions, arguments have been exchanged and the thread has derailed sort of from the beginning. I personally think this discussion is sort of pointless because it seems that we will only run in circles here. I hope christo and MaGain do not only look at the tastefulness of our posts but actually see our arguments and try to understand why we are a little angry. I think the main problem really is netiquette here overall. If criticism was expressed without arrogance, ignorance or plain and shallow bad intentions, people wouldn't go ballistic so easily. Also the different oppositions wouldn't harden up so fast and wouldn't feel the necessity to have to defend their viewpoint with their lives. I think that is something we all need: flexibility and the ability to admit we might have been wrong on some point.

 

[Sphinxter]

Those aren't criticisms or questions, just lame ass stupid trolls and we've got to stop feeding them.

 

[jpic3yk]

In my opinion, I'm happy with the SoC chosen, after experiencing all the corner cutting done with the gp2x, poor build quality of the device, hearing dev's complain about certain things, and using that awful stick that breaks if you press it in too much. I am more then happy to spend extra money on a device that's built well, easier to dev for and has a ton of features/uses.

 

[b._.o._.b]

Looking forward to the Pandora. Imo the new SOC delayed the launch a lot. This was a firm request of a couple of people (most noticeable Exophase) and if that was a wise decision, future will tell.
I agree with Exophase this is a given now and we shouldn't discuss stuff like this endlessly. If you really don't like the pandora the way it is now, look for something else and don't pollute the board with your opinion.

The launchdate is something I would like to discuss though. I have seen lots of launch delays for electronic devices in the past and I don't expect the Pandora to be the exception. It doesn't mean I don't trust Craigx or MWeston (I'm sure they think it is possible) it is just based on experience.
I am waiting for the NEO1973 (open phone) a long time now and because it is delayed continuously I'm at a point right now where I might be getting another phone.

I hope this will not happen to the Pandora, but I'm pretty sure spring (March, April or May) launch will be not sooner than May and probably later. I'd like to see a more detailed launch path with some milestones, maybe my intuition fails me this time and there is a robust plan to get it to the crowd on time.