Release Why not Maemo?

[TaG]

I don't think that one can specify in detail what exactly to want from maemo.
I want the feel of it. I don't want to have to fiddle around with my everyday-use OS. Turn on, answer business-mails, turn off. Turn on watch youtube, turn off. Thats it. I don't want to have to gain root access to do basic everyday-work.
I'm sure, that I will have a dualboot and will build my own customized OS over time, as I learn more about linux. But I want to have a full-fledged work OS that makes no hassle, when I need it.

Fair points, although I am hoping that within the standard OS you can turn on / use stuff / turn off. I don't see that you will have to have root access to do basic stuff on the standard OS either - possibly at first as things will still need setting up / installing / personalising.

 

[mali]

Fair points, although I am hoping that within the standard OS you can turn on / use stuff / turn off. I don't see that you will have to have root access to do basic stuff on the standard OS either - possibly at first as things will still need setting up / installing / personalising.

I will customize my own OS, but on one partition I want something working in detail out of the box. And regarding other users, there is a fair amount of people asking for skype, flashgames and youtube for example. That just works in maemo. As I understand, gnash isn't fully compatible and skype doesn't exist elsewhere. I don't use skype, so I don't care. But others might base their descision if they should buy a Pandora, on the availability of those features.

 

[Polossatik]

What exactly is it that Maemo will give users that people are assuming the standard OS won't? From what I've read people really want the stuff that is closed source. As we haven't seen the standard OS, it might have the advantages that people want.
Similar to the Ubuntu discussion, once you tinker too much with a 'distro' it is no longer that 'distro', it is not Ubuntu/Maemo anymore. Both may have uses for some, both may be useful for publicity.

I don't "want" closed source, but I'm (like a lot of people) have not much against it if it "free(like in beer)" and works... why not use it?

Edit: I just want to stay away from the big debate (reading the skype thread) about this in this thread. whatever position you have, and or you like it or not, there will be demand for "closed source" things like skype.

The whole reason why I bring maemo up is just because there is a decent lack of info on the "standard" OS -_-
It's IMHO just a nice distro and seen the fact there is already a decent "eco system" around it, I tought it would be usefull to explore the possibility of using it. If the "standard" distro provides the same easy interface/pool of working applications etc then there is indeed no direct need for Maemo, maybe some support for hildon is all that is needed on the "base os" but until we have some idea about that it might be good to simply start looking what is possible with Maemo. (It might be that there is a "showstopper" problem for Maemo that would need a huge amount of effort to fix.. donno - I never ported a OS/distro to a new HW system )

I'm also under the impression (might be wrong of course...) that Maemo was then most "polished" /finetuned one out there (on Nokia tablets anyway - not sure how much will be actually missing if you strip out closed source nokia stuff), comparing with deblet or Ubuntu Mobile for example .

Maybe people who actually use Deblet or Ubuntu Mobile can comment on this?

But going forward, it's nice to see that there is interest and that there are people who also believe that Meamo might be beneficial for the Pandora (in one way or another).

The main thing is that there is actually serious interest in having a more or less "polished" OS experience.

I still could not find any decent information on the "standard os" besides a few forum entry's here and there or news snippets,
what is actually know about the OS that is foreseen to be shipped with the Pandora besides the fact that it's supposed to be "Angstrom"? Who in fact building this stuff?

 

[TaG]

I don't "want" closed source, but I'm (like a lot of people) have not much against it if it "free(like in beer)" and works... why not use it?

I agree, but:

not sure how much will be actually missing if you strip out closed source nokia stuff)

was my point. If you strip out stuff that is not possible, does what is left still meet everybody's expectations? ( I don't know - I am genuinely asking.)

The main thing is that there is actually serious interest in having a more or less "polished" OS experience

There is definitely a lot of interest in achieving this aim, it is a question of how to do it.

 

[Tor]

The list of closed source in Maemo that I'm aware of off the top of my head:
- Skype
- Adobe flash support for browser
- mp3 decoding running in DSP
- Possibly some other media codecs
- The Wayfinder navigation application
- Some bits and pieces of the UI
- A couple of status bar applets
- I'm not certain about the current source code availability of the microb browser (gecko-based).
EDIT: Forgot this one:
- GVM - Garnet Virtual Machine, a Palm emulator from Access.

That is somewhat in order of significance. There's no Skype-compatible replacement for Skype. Flash could be possible by other means, but probably with less performance.

I'm personally not worried about the media pieces, in any case those currently available for the current Nokia platform may not even be compatible with the hardware in the Pandora (the DSP-optimized things, that is).

The Wayfinder navigation system is just one of several, the rest are open source.

UI pieces are not important, you don't _have_ to run the Hildonized version of the matchbox window manager when using maemo.

Everything else (of what I can recall) in maemo is open source, including the vast majority of what I'm personally interested in.

 

[mali]

The list of closed source in Maemo that I'm aware of off the top of my head:
- Skype
- Adobe flash support for browser
- mp3 decoding running in DSP
- Possibly some other media codecs
- The Wayfinder navigation application
- Some bits and pieces of the UI
- A couple of status bar applets
- I'm not certain about the current source code availability of the microb browser (gecko-based).

That is somewhat in order of significance. There's no Skype-compatible replacement for Skype. Flash could be possible by other means, but probably with less performance.

I'm personally not worried about the media pieces, in any case those currently available for the current Nokia platform may not even be compatible with the hardware in the Pandora (the DSP-optimized things, that is).

The Wayfinder navigation system is just one of several, the rest are open source.

UI pieces are not important, you don't _have_ to run the Hildonized version of the matchbox window manager when using maemo.

Everything else (of what I can recall) in maemo is open source, including the vast majority of what I'm personally interested in.

So to make it understandable for non developers, the closed source parts will refuse to run on Pandora?
Then I'm out.

 

[Tor]

No, if maemo runs on on Pandora then the closed source stuff (including Skype) should work. What's not going to work could be the media codecs written for the DSPs used in the Nokia devices - but one, I'm not entirely sure, and two, that probably won't matter - there should be alternatives coming from the Pandora side.

I made that list because some of the earlier postings kind of indicated that people thought that a) maemo would be interesting only for the closed-source parts, and b) maemo was mainly based around closed source parts. Which isn't correct.

 

[Polossatik]

Please note that there is a big difference between

a) a "closed source" application (!) , this will typically run on any hardware that has the same OS and CPU (= almost any closed source app for meamo that runs on the n8x0 series should run under meamo on the pandora
the only exceptions are applications who adress directly hardware

b) closed source parts of the Maemo stack itself. This are parts that nokia provided and where there is no opensource counterpart yet. If this are "device drivers" for hardware that is not used in the pandora (like the wifi) then this is not a problem.
for parts of the OS itself this might be a problem as this then needs to be "replaced" by open source/written from scratch software to "fill the holes".

I just saw for point b) a nice update on the ITT thread http://www.internettablettalk.com/forum ... 254&page=2
I'll check this out in more detail in the next day's - rather busy now

 

[mali]

Oh man, I was shocked for a while. I couldn't live with a maemo without microB and full flash support. Desktop Firefox wouldn't be my browser of choice, I am too impatient :wink:
I'm jumping back an forth between ITT and here, very interesting

Edit:
A quote from GA on ITT just for people that don't hang around there:

Well, I know a few people have Maemo booting on the Beagle, so the issue is mostly finagling the hardware-specific stuff out and figuring out how to set up the initfs.

I did as much as using the TI reference kernel (2.6.22) to try to boot a backup of Diablo I had on the SD card and watching it fail miserably since the initfs wasn't there.

I'm pretty sure there's at least one person on #beagle who has done it, so you may ask around there.

Edit2:
LMAO
Guess who has asked about maemo on beagle:
http://groups.google.com/group/beaglebo ... a256c8e2ec

 

[axenzoku]

Hey, you know what... After looking around this subject... The whole reason most of this discussion is talking about Maemo is because of the application base, and pretty much the look n' feel of the OS? Also that it supports ARM, 800x480 res, touch screen, OMAP, etc... You know, there are a lot of closed source things in Maemo, but... I found a few interesting other Operating Systems designed for ARMv7 (Which Pandora uses?), using the Hildon user-interface but all open-source and probably a lot more cooperative when it comes to supporting a more "Open" community:

• Ubuntu MID Edition (Mobile Internet Device)
  100% open-source Made by Ubuntu so you know how friendly they are... And also, uses a very clean looking UI (Option to choose between different types of UI, like Clutter, a Flash Interface, etc)... Oh, It does support Adobe Flash and Java (much like the concerns about the closed source Adobe Flash package for Maemo) I dunno, I am kinda thinking I found the perfect solution here (But I may be wrong)... So all that YouTube, Facebook, MySpace, 3d games, etc. would work on this one with little or no modifications. Bah I'm sorry, I just found something deep in the Ubuntu MID site in the FAQ:
  

  Can I run it on a Nokia N770/N800/N810?
  
  * As stated above, our current focus in in x86 processors. It should run on ARM if somebody ports it, but for now, if you have a Nokia Internet Tablet, stick with Nokia's software.

  Sorry about that... Still would be sweet if it got ported... I would say focus your time on porting this rather than Maemo.
  
  
  

• Moblin
  There's moblin, a project by Intel for MID devices, it seems they WANT people to try it out and experiment on many different mobile devices and it's obviously completely open source and everything... I'm still checking out the demo videos, but the UI looks pretty nice. But people's comments say it's pretty slow, so I don't think it would really be good at all.
  
  

Anyway, this is the modern OS I picture being on the Pandora... Anyway, can't you install your own OS on it after you get it anyway? So I mean, we don't have to pressure the devs to change their plans, just start making your own p&|a

 

[fang64]

Isn't the Mamona OS suppose to be a Maemo Alternative for the Nokia tablets wouldn't that share some binary compatibility? Or is this project completely incompatible with Maemo?

http://dev.openbossa.org/trac/mamona/ - for Mamona project site.

 

[pocketpc2004]

What about Mer ? http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint

its based on ubuntu jaunty and uses the hildon interface