What Is The Clock Frequency Of The Pandora ?

[Pickle]

Are you high?

no, just silly (+ a certified flamewar defusal technician)


HAH! you know nothing about flamewar defusing. I am the best flamewar defusal tech! HAH!

 

[StealthBagel]

Don't worry, that still qualifies you for godhood. ... as long as you say something is wrong and explain why with sensitive arguments, we'll believe you. Please stop acting like you need to prove something : you don't.

Holy crap why don't you just lick his balls while you're at it.

Exophase had prior been stating the GBA outclassed anything else emulated on the GP2X except the PS1 and Jaguar, which is blatantly false. The reason I said GBA CPU emulation shouldn't be that much more stressful than many other platforms on the gp2x is because the CPU architecture is the same which, to my understanding, would enable you to run a lot of code natively. If not, oh well. But the biggest hurdle should be the graphics sub-system.....

You can speed emulators up a little with hardware blitting, blitting to the screen/buffer but you can't speed them up like Epicentre used to claim, ie the 3D/2D hardware in the pandora is nothing like the custom hardware in the SNES or GBA and would be no use at all.

I don't know what Satan claimed could be accelerated, but I never suggested the GPU would behave like a PPU..... just that there are ways you can speed up an en emulator's graphical work using a GPU.

For example most modern GPUs can accelerate alpha transparency.... using the SNES PPUs as an example the only transparency is usually on the topmost layer and wouldn't be that difficult to write a workalike that looks about the same to most users. I'm stubborn and picky about accuracy in audio but if the graphics look almost the same I'm not going to complain and I don't think most other people would. That's just one idea, there's a lot more ways, you'd just need to think creatively. 3D stuff is definitely more obvious but if history has shown us anything on any game console there are always unique ways to squeeze more power out of the hardware than was originally thought to be there..

But yeah, 3D acceleration is where it will really shine... lack of any 3D hardware in the gp2x is what really dooms PSX emulation among other platforms. Hope someone takes on Saturn someday though I kind of doubt it. N64 I just am not too concerned about because the library of games was so poor IMHO...

 

[Pickle]

Don't worry, that still qualifies you for godhood. ... as long as you say something is wrong and explain why with sensitive arguments, we'll believe you. Please stop acting like you need to prove something : you don't.

Holy crap why don't you just lick his balls while you're at it.

Exophase had prior been stating the GBA outclassed anything else emulated on the GP2X except the PS1 and Jaguar, which is blatantly false. The reason I said GBA CPU emulation shouldn't be that much more stressful than many other platforms on the gp2x is because the CPU architecture is the same which, to my understanding, would enable you to run a lot of code natively. If not, oh well. But the biggest hurdle should be the graphics sub-system.....

You can speed emulators up a little with hardware blitting, blitting to the screen/buffer but you can't speed them up like Epicentre used to claim, ie the 3D/2D hardware in the pandora is nothing like the custom hardware in the SNES or GBA and would be no use at all.

I don't know what Satan claimed could be accelerated, but I never suggested the GPU would behave like a PPU..... just that there are ways you can speed up an en emulator's graphical work using a GPU.

For example most modern GPUs can accelerate alpha transparency.... using the SNES PPUs as an example the only transparency is usually on the topmost layer and wouldn't be that difficult to write a workalike that looks about the same to most users. I'm stubborn and picky about accuracy in audio but if the graphics look almost the same I'm not going to complain and I don't think most other people would. That's just one idea, there's a lot more ways, you'd just need to think creatively. 3D stuff is definitely more obvious but if history has shown us anything on any game console there are always unique ways to squeeze more power out of the hardware than was originally thought to be there..

But yeah, 3D acceleration is where it will really shine... lack of any 3D hardware in the gp2x is what really dooms PSX emulation among other platforms. Hope someone takes on Saturn someday though I kind of doubt it. N64 I just am not too concerned about because the library of games was so poor IMHO...

on a serious note: what the heck I just got an email that HIV exploder posted this exact thing, then I get one the Steath Bagel posted this. Same person?

 

[HIVexploder]

it's a conspiacy.

p.s. way to quote a page of text.

 

[Pickle]

it's a conspiacy.

p.s. way to quote a page of text.

well i wanted to make sure eveyrone knew which one im talking about.
why did you edit your last post?

 

[atomicthumbs]

on a serious note: what the heck I just got an email that HIV exploder posted this exact thing, then I get one the Steath Bagel posted this. Same person?

Yeah, WTF? I checked about 15 minutes ago, and it was HIV Exploder that had posted that.

This is either a database error or some far more sinister conspiracy.

?

Edit: A mod needs to check IPs.

 

[Pickle]

on a serious note: what the heck I just got an email that HIV exploder posted this exact thing, then I get one the Steath Bagel posted this. Same person?

Yeah, WTF? I checked about 15 minutes ago, and it was HIV Exploder that had posted that.

This is either a database error or some far more sinister conspiracy.

?


I think he's posting so fast he forgot which "identity" was supposed to say what and had them backwards.

 

[HIVexploder]

i'm sure it's something much more complicated and involves the illuminati and rfid tags in gilette razors.

 

[Squidge]

Could you post the GP2X ones too please?

[root@gp2x sd]$killall gp2xmenu
[root@gp2x sd]$./fba2x ./donpachi.zip
Attempt to initialise 'DonPachi (ver. 1.01 1995/05/11, U.S.A)'
1 attempt to open './donpachi.zip'
seems ok, moving to check the other stuff
prgu.u29 ... 512Kb program (OK)
atdp.u44 ... 2048Kb graphics (OK)
4 atdp.u45 ... 2048Kb graphics (OK)
1 atdp.u54 ... 1024Kb graphics (OK)
1 atdp.u57 ... 1024Kb graphics (OK)
text.u58 ... 256Kb graphics (OK)
atdp.u32 ... 1024Kb sound (OK)
3 atdp.u33 ... 2048Kb sound (OK)
BurnDrvInit exiting with return value 0
Lets go!
210 82 65 73 75 74 70 66 98 162 = 97 fps avg
228 175 168 67 67 70 76 72 62 63 = 104 fps avg
62 62 62 63 62 62 63 58 57 76 = 62 fps avg
65 65 66 55 59 60 65 64 54 61 = 61 fps avg
56 52 50 48 43 48 46 43 40 44 = 47 fps avg
50 48 47 53 58 63 52 51 57 54 = 53 fps avg
53 54 54 54 55 54 59 58 59 51 = 55 fps avg
52 52 55 57 59 59 62 67 65 70 = 59 fps avg
74 74 73 65 70 124 190 199 171 120 = 116 fps avg
67 66 71 75 68 62 62 61 62 62 = 65 fps avg
61 62 61 62 58 57 80 74 76 67 = 65 fps avg
63 63 58 60 60 55 53 55 55 50 = 57 fps avg
48 59 56 59 55 55 54 55 53 56 = 55 fps avg
53 54 54 57 50 48 53 54 51 57 = 53 fps avg
63 64 57 69 78 78 69 66 81 70 = 69 fps avg

Note that the first couple of lines are titles screens, the 3rd line is in game, and the line with the 116 fps avg is where it changes from in game to blackness for a few seconds.

 

[atomicthumbs]

GP2X avg @ 200MHZ (I assume): ~68 FPS

Pandora avg @ 500MHZ: ~229 FPS

GP2X FPS per MHZ: 0.34

Pandora avg per MHZ (unoptimized): 0.458


???

 

[Exophase]

210 82 65 73 75 74 70 66 98 162 = 97 fps avg
228 175 168 67 67 70 76 72 62 63 = 104 fps avg
62 62 62 63 62 62 63 58 57 76 = 62 fps avg
65 65 66 55 59 60 65 64 54 61 = 61 fps avg
56 52 50 48 43 48 46 43 40 44 = 47 fps avg
50 48 47 53 58 63 52 51 57 54 = 53 fps avg
53 54 54 54 55 54 59 58 59 51 = 55 fps avg
52 52 55 57 59 59 62 67 65 70 = 59 fps avg
74 74 73 65 70 124 190 199 171 120 = 116 fps avg
67 66 71 75 68 62 62 61 62 62 = 65 fps avg
61 62 61 62 58 57 80 74 76 67 = 65 fps avg
63 63 58 60 60 55 53 55 55 50 = 57 fps avg

48 59 56 59 55 55 54 55 53 56 = 55 fps avg
53 54 54 57 50 48 53 54 51 57 = 53 fps avg
63 64 57 69 78 78 69 66 81 70 = 69 fps avg

Note that the first couple of lines are titles screens, the 3rd line is in game, and the line with the 116 fps avg is where it changes from in game to blackness for a few seconds.

Thanks Squidge ^_-

Here are the Pandora ones again for reference:

239 630 225 231 535 377 199 206 199 200 = 304 fps avg
188 227 188 198 182 178 182 188 200 179 = 191 fps avg
176 184 176 178 199 224 234 435 455 191 = 245 fps avg
207 196 197 187 237 207 187 173 169 187 = 194 fps avg
176 172 175 162 183 208 245 233 236 229 = 201 fps avg
575 310 202 201 197 196 197 208 202 203 = 249 fps avg
165 192 201 191 193 185 221 237 420 483 = 248 fps avg
190 207 197 196 187 216 199 204 185 170 = 195 fps avg
177 198 199 180 174 184 178 167 192 210 = 185 fps avg
247 283 605 195 209 197 196 195 212 223 = 256 fps avg
191 183 206 245 274 623 202 210 196 196 = 252 fps avg
195 203 199 207 209 219 239 394 510 188 = 256 fps avg

209 196 197 188 215 199 205 184 170 177 = 194 fps avg

Here are the percent compares for each line:
313%
308%
395%
318%
428%
470%
451%
331%
159%
394%
388%
449%
340%

Total average: 365%, looks like it's doing quite well.. at whatever clock speed you have it at, although the erratic differences are kinda weird (it probably doesn't suffer from some things as harshly as the GP2X one, maybe because of better cache subsystem or something). Can't wait to try things on it myself.

 

[notaz]

Looking forward to this too. Hopefully craigix won't ban me from his dev list for porting Pico to PSP

 

[vampire8bit]

Opinions?


MHz-FPS comparisons between Pandora/GP2X?

And.. I hate to burst your bubble, but you're not going to see anyone using hardware acceleration to emulate SNES or GBA's video subsystems while retaining any kind of accuracy.

Hm, thats new for me to. So the Devs of Emulators can't use Hardware Features of the Pandora to support faster emulation? Is this only for some Emulators or an overall fact?


You can speed emulators up a little with hardware blitting, blitting to the screen/buffer but you can't speed them up like Epicentre used to claim, ie the 3D/2D hardware in the pandora is nothing like the custom hardware in the SNES or GBA and would be no use at all.

To see how much hardware blitting speeds up emulators see the software sdl and hardware sdl version of the neogeo emu, I think the hardware one is around 15fps faster, so it's a decent gain but nothing like the gain you would get if you could do all the graphical effects directly on the graphics chip.

Where the Pandora hardware should become interesting is in emulating 3D systems.


So 2d/3d acceleration is of no benefit to emulation of 2d systems and if used emulation will affect accuracy so will not be used. This means we are just left with the 500Mhz (or thereabouts) processor for 2d systems.
This is only about 250Mhz more powerful than gp2x

Will the Processor speed still be enough for perfect C64, SNES and Amiga emulation? or is it still going to be a big struggle on the pandora (I am concerned because these systems are the major reason for me purchasing a Pandora and I'm sure for many other people as well)

 

[Exophase]

So 2d/3d acceleration is of no benefit to emulation of 2d systems and if used emulation will affect accuracy so will not be used. This means we are just left with the 500Mhz (or thereabouts) processor for 2d systems.
This is only about 250Mhz more powerful than gp2x

Will the Processor speed still be enough for perfect C64, SNES and Amiga emulation? or is it still going to be a big struggle on the pandora (I am concerned because these systems are the major reason for me purchasing a Pandora and I'm sure for many other people as well)

See for yourself, Squidge's tests with fba2x are a good 3.65x the speed of it running on a 200MHz GP2X. That's presumably with the GP2X version using hardware framebuffer blits and Pandora not using them. We don't know what it'll clock to, but it's pretty certain that it'll be at least as high as whatever Squidge is clocking at, but probably higher on average. It's also probably w/o the compiler targeting Cortex-A8 which it could possibly really benefit from.

Comparing clock speed like that is no good, clock for clock Pandora has a more powerful CPU, and it'll probably have more L1 cache, L2 cache, and a better memory interface.

I don't expect there to be problems emulating SNES and Amiga quickly (and don't see why GP2X emulators should have a problem with C64, what's up with that...)

EDIT: Trimmed quotes...

 

[Pickle]

Will the Processor speed still be enough for perfect C64, SNES and Amiga emulation? or is it still going to be a big struggle on the pandora (I am concerned because these systems are the major reason for me purchasing a Pandora and I'm sure for many other people as well)

C64? of course, its fine on GP2X right now!
SNES and Amiga should be much better

 

[vampire8bit]

So 2d/3d acceleration is of no benefit to emulation of 2d systems and if used emulation will affect accuracy so will not be used. This means we are just left with the 500Mhz (or thereabouts) processor for 2d systems.
This is only about 250Mhz more powerful than gp2x

Will the Processor speed still be enough for perfect C64, SNES and Amiga emulation? or is it still going to be a big struggle on the pandora (I am concerned because these systems are the major reason for me purchasing a Pandora and I'm sure for many other people as well)

See for yourself, Squidge's tests with fba2x are a good 3.65x the speed of it running on a 200MHz GP2X. That's presumably with the GP2X version using hardware framebuffer blits and Pandora not using them. We don't know what it'll clock to, but it's pretty certain that it'll be at least as high as whatever Squidge is clocking at, but probably higher on average. It's also probably w/o the compiler targeting Cortex-A8 which it could possibly really benefit from.

Comparing clock speed like that is no good, clock for clock Pandora has a more powerful CPU, and it'll probably have more L1 cache, L2 cache, and a better memory interface.

I don't expect there to be problems emulating SNES and Amiga quickly (and don't see why GP2X emulators should have a problem with C64, what's up with that...)

EDIT: Trimmed quotes...


Last time I used Vice on gp2x (few months ago now) it skipped and paused during gameplay making games unplayable. I've since sold my gp2x.

 

[fusion_power]

You can speed emulators up a little with hardware blitting, blitting to the screen/buffer but you can't speed them up like Epicentre used to claim, ie the 3D/2D hardware in the pandora is nothing like the custom hardware in the SNES or GBA and would be no use at all.

To see how much hardware blitting speeds up emulators see the software sdl and hardware sdl version of the neogeo emu, I think the hardware one is around 15fps faster, so it's a decent gain but nothing like the gain you would get if you could do all the graphical effects directly on the graphics chip.

Where the Pandora hardware should become interesting is in emulating 3D systems.

Hm, Ok. 15 FPS is much. I know that the custom Hardware of Consoles cant be emulated 1:1 in other Hardware platforms. But it really would be cool, if all the "standard stuff" like blitting, scaling and Buffer-things can be done in pure Hardware at the Pandora. Maybe the Pandora can handle all these Alpha-Transparency Stuff in Hardware to, could be a incredible speed boost in the SNES Emulation compared to the GP2X.

 

[Pickle]

Last time I used Vice on gp2x (few months ago now) it skipped and paused during gameplay making games unplayable. I've since sold my gp2x.

Really, most of the games ive tried have been fine. Ive even heard Frodo was faster than VICE, did you ever try it?

 

[vampire8bit]

Last time I used Vice on gp2x (few months ago now) it skipped and paused during gameplay making games unplayable. I've since sold my gp2x.

Really, most of the games ive tried have been fine. Ive even heard Frodo was faster than VICE, did you ever try it?


no, unfortunately never got round to using that one. I heard that it didn't have high compatibility so didn't bother. Wished I had now.

 

[BaDToaD]

Frodo is near enough full speed on a GP32 so should fly on GP2x or Pandora.