What Does Seem To You?...

[fusion_power]

On the subject of a backlit keyboard... I understand what you guys are saying but lets say I'm playing in the dark with the screen swiveled out the full 180 degrees? The bright light coming straight at my eyes and never bouncing off the keyboard would make it even harder to see the keyboard. I'm not asking for anything fancy but maybe just making the keyboard symbols see through with a simple LED behind it like a cellphone.

Keyboard LED was suggested before. I'm for it because even the cheapest Mobile Phones have one so It can't cost the world. Black Keys and only the complete (white) labeling is glowing (white, or red, maybe blue but not to bright). Would look great and I'm sure you don't need a LED for each Button.
And yes, nobody plays with just a 90° opened Lid, it's more like 120° and more, so the LCD can't directly illuminate the Keyboard.

 

[mafia-man]

There is also the issue of battery life, adding useless lights just cuts down the length of time you can use the Pandora

 

[chad78]

Not to mention playing a keyboard intensive game in the dark....

What if that game is called "AbiWord" or "Email" or "Chat" or "Internet"? Remember, the Pandora is more than a game console.

I still think the screen will shine bright enough to see the keyboard. It's only got to shine 3.3" in front of it to shine on the whole keyboard. I think it can handle it. We're not talking about a 17" laptop here, where the space bar is 8 or 9 inches from the screen.

Keyboard LED was suggested before. I'm for it because even the cheapest Mobile Phones have one so It can't cost the world.

Cell phones are subsidized by the calling plan. "Cheap" cell phones cost over $100 if you buy them with no plan. Yeah - those free no-frills cell phones cost over $200 in most cases - if you buy them without a contract. Not a good example.

QUOTE
And yes, nobody plays with just a 90° opened Lid, it's more like 120° and more, so the LCD can't directly illuminate the Keyboard.


That maybe true - in fact, I'm pretty sure it is. But the light from the screen doesn't just shine straight ahead - the abmeniant light will still reach the keyboard, most likely.

Personally, I'd love to see an illuminate keyboard - but I think it's too much money, and too late in the game to make that happen. I'd love to be wrong, though.

 

[Tobriand]

Cell phones are subsidized by the calling plan. "Cheap" cell phones cost over $100 if you buy them with no plan. Yeah - those free no-frills cell phones cost over $200 in most cases - if you buy them without a contract.

Not a good example.

To be fair, it depends where you are in the world, and whether you permit second hand phones to count. It's very easy to get very nice unlocked phones here in the UK for £10-£20. However, yes, for anything new you're probably looking at £30 minimum. Still, pretty cheap in comparisson to other electronics...

 

[Javacat]

Just thought that I'd mention that I was playing my DS in bed a couple of nights ago and couldn't make out any of the buttons on it. To get it to the point where I would be able to see them through the reflection of the screen I'd have to turn it right up and then it would be tooo bright and uncomfortable to use in the dark.

 

[palmertech]

Unfortunately, it is impossible for the Pandora to have a backlit keyboard. Those light up keypads on cell phones are made by embedding a smt led underneath every button. The face of the switch is clear so that it can shine through. The Pandora does not use these pseudo-tact switches, it uses a rubber membrane that comes in contact with board traces to complete the circuit. No matter what you do, it can't happen on the Pandora. Am I the only one seeing a lot of major design change threads, even though the prototype is already made?

 

[Megamixman]

What about glow in the dark ink for the buttons? Costs would be the only thing that is affected, but I think it is common enough that whoever they use to get their keys would be able to do it for a very little extra cost.

 

[phi6]

Just thought I'd say that you shouldn't play games in the dark as I've heard it damages your eyes somewhat, the contrast between the screen and the surroundings is too great, something to do with your pupils dilating or something I'm not too sure... Anyway it does put strain on my eyes and makes them tired easily!

Just stick a bedroom lamp on or something, and you can see the keyboard no problem!

 

[chad78]

Game Boy Light FTW!

 

[Soulkiller]

Lol I remember that! Maybe I still have mine laying around here

But seriouslly though, I can already imagine myself say laying down and using this in the dark, and holding it above my chest with the screen fully extended (or jsut about). Its always those features that you think "Honestly, who's going to need that?" when it turns out that half of your userbase ends up wanteing this feature at one point. Just wish their was a quick way to fix this for little to no price markup, Maybe the glow-in-the-dark print is actually a good idea...

 

[Nilsiboy]

Game Boy Light FTW!



USB Light for more win

 

[Nova]

Game Boy Light FTW!



USB Light for more win

That's perfect, now can everyone quit whinging? You'll learn the keyboard layout eventually anyway, and thus can play in the dark...

 

[fusion_power]

There is also the issue of battery life, adding useless lights just cuts down the length of time you can use the Pandora

We are talking about micro LED's, they are 1mmx2mm small and not always enabled. I'm sure such a light wouldn't even itch the Pandora Batery.

Cell phones are subsidized by the calling plan. "Cheap" cell phones cost over $100 if you buy them with no plan. Yeah - those free no-frills cell phones cost over $200 in most cases - if you buy them without a contract. Not a good example.


Yes, I know that but even a phone that costs 200 Euro or so, the Keyboard lightning is maybe one Euro. Such a cool looking Keyboard light would make the Pandora even more unique and 1337 so I wouldn't have a problem to pay 1 Euro more.

Unfortunately, it is impossible for the Pandora to have a backlit keyboard. Those light up keypads on cell phones are made by embedding a smt led underneath every button. The face of the switch is clear so that it can shine through. The Pandora does not use these pseudo-tact switches, it uses a rubber membrane that comes in contact with board traces to complete the circuit. No matter what you do, it can't happen on the Pandora. Am I the only one seeing a lot of major design change threads, even though the prototype is already made?

I have a old Mobile with illuminated keys AND this rubber membrane technique, cool eh? And even better, the (transparent) rubber guides the light to the keys AND you don't need a LED for each button, the Micro LED's are BETWEEN the buttons and one LED illuminates 3 or 4 Buttons at once. THIS would work onto the Pandora.

 

[Chip]

Nobody is saying that a backlit keypad is impossible, but it is not trivial either. First, you would have to switch from an opaque rubber membrane to a clear one. Second, you would have to switch to either clear plastic keys (which are then painted everywhere but the key label) or multi-part keys. Third you would need to add traces to the PCB and the LEDs themselves. Fourth, you would need a way to turn them on and off.

Any one of those steps may very well be a "no can do" at this point. You've expressed your desire for a backlit keypad, now let the people in charge decide if it can / should be done.

 

[fusion_power]

Nobody is saying that a backlit keypad is impossible, but it is not trivial either. First, you would have to switch from an opaque rubber membrane to a clear one. Second, you would have to switch to either clear plastic keys (which are then painted everywhere but the key label) or multi-part keys. Third you would need to add traces to the PCB and the LEDs themselves. Fourth, you would need a way to turn them on and off.

Any one of those steps may very well be a "no can do" at this point. You've expressed your desire for a backlit keypad, now let the people in charge decide if it can / should be done.

Desire? :lol: Just one of million (more or less) creative suggestions here in the Board. Of course the Devs do whatever they decide to do. But as long the (final!) Pandora only exists onto Paper and especially the Buttons STILL under Development, we can suggest until the forum is melting.

YES, you are right. You mentioned exactly the required Steps that cam into my (crazy) mind:
-using light-guiding transparent Rubber material
-Making the Keys out of clear Plastic (no higher costs than coloured Plastic)
-painting everything but the key labels black and this from the inside to make the colour undestructable) (ok, more costs)
-extra traces to the PCB for the LED's (highest costs AFAIK)
-and of course assembling the LED's and of course more than one.
...controlled with FN+key combo or so. Software only controll of the lights should be OK.

...could look like this:

...one LED for 3 Keys... JUST A SUGGESTION

 

[Chip]

-using light-guiding transparent Rubber material
-Making the Keys out of clear Plastic (no higher costs than coloured Plastic)
-painting everything but the key labels black and this from the inside to make the colour undestructable) (ok, more costs)
-extra traces to the PCB for the LED's (highest costs AFAIK)
-and of course assembling the LED's and of course more than one.
...controlled with FN+key combo or so. Software only controll of the lights should be OK.

You're making a lot of assumptions. Do you know for a fact that clear rubber membranes and keys cost the same as opaque ones? Do you know if the factories sourced to make those parts have the capability to make clear versions?

Software by itself can't control lights. The software has to tell a piece of hardware to send current down the correct trace. Do we know if there are any general purpose IO pins left open? Is there an easy way to route one to something that can switch the current and from there to the LEDs, or is another board redesign necessary?

Again, there is more to it than you think.

 

[greendots]

I would love a lighted keyboard like this but not if its going to prolong the release date. I dont think i will be typing in the dark much anyway.

 

[fusion_power]

-Do you know for a fact that clear rubber membranes and keys cost the same as opaque ones?
-Do you know if the factories sourced to make those parts have the capability to make clear versions?
-Do we know if there are any general purpose IO pins left open?
-Is there an easy way to route one to something that can switch the current and from there to the LEDs, or is another board redesign necessary?

Uh, NO but I'm hoping the best of course.

WHY?

Hm maybe I just believe into the Pandora and it's Devs..and the OMAP Chipset...and the power of the Community...
I hope this will be enough.

 

[Soulkiller]

Now we jsut need to get Craig/MWeston to take a look at this... not becuase I beleive that they will add this feature, but because we are completly offtopic from what this thread was created for and I doubt that they've seen this yet. I guess I'll send a pm to both just in case theirs some slim chance that MAYBE POSSIBLY this could be done but I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

[JuhoZero]

Why someone always on these forums start whining, if someone wants to talk for keyboard lightning, etc. I don't mean to offense, but if you don't like the topic, you shouldn't read it.. And the glowing letter paint sounds nice (on the paper, it is...) Is the paint some kind of phosphore?