What do people think of the 1ghz Pandas?

[laurencevde]

Well, the 1GHz DM3730 is certainly faster on paper, and consumes less power, than the OMAP3530, but not much more than an overclocked 3530 (though you can ofc also overclock a 3730, but prob not by as much %), and the noticeable speed-difference for the things the Pandora is used for wouldn't be all that much. There's simply not that much software for wich it really matters. Stuttering games can run smoother, and the DSP can decode 720p H.264 HP (but that requires something to actually use it...). That's pretty much all of the difference you'll actually notice.


The chip is almost a drop-in replacement, and is cheaper than the 3530 was (which is no longer for sale), so once OPT runs out of its stack of 3530s, there's no reason not to choose the 3730. The sole reason why the current run is priced so high is because it's a tiny test-run, and there are enough people willing to buy it for that price even if it's only a minor upgrade.

 

[EvilDragon]

The high price is certainly not something we plan to keep forever. Once all preorders are shipped and the debts are basically recovered, the price can be easily lowered.


Aditionally, I want to offer 600MHz Pandoras as well as some 256MB ones (repaired CC PCBs) for a cheaper price as well, so we should have Pandoras for everyone in various price ranges.

 

[Null]

The high price is certainly not something we plan to keep forever. Once all preorders are shipped and the debts are basically recovered, the price can be easily lowered.

Phew, I may be able to afford a Pandora 2 after all.

 

[Binky]

So the current aim is to make as much money as possible, with hyped 1GHz editions and wide profit margins, to pay off debts ready for future projects?

 

[Foxgod]

So the current aim is to make as much money as possible, with hyped 1GHz editions and wide profit margins, to pay off debts ready for future projects?

Yeah, soon as they are out of the crappers, a healthier bussines model with lower pricing is more possible for the team.


Thats why i consider the current pricepoint for the Panda 1ghz to be a good one, and i ordered one, because it helps the team and the pandora to have a future.

 

[Ian J]

I would gladly plonk the cash down today if anyone can show me proof of the speed up in emulation.


Main 2 titles I'd like to see running (with fps) are Lucky & Wild or Super Chase - Criminal Termination on MAME.


If those run OK my cash is as good as yours.

 

[huniper]

So the current aim is to make as much money as possible, with hyped 1GHz editions and wide profit margins, to pay off debts ready for future projects?

That's exactly why I'm willing to spend $700 on a unit, Open Pandora needs to continue to make consoles and if i have to spend a little more money to ensure that happens I am very willing to.


For me this is the only gadget I can buy this year, I held off buying a Vita, or an iPad because I hoped that there would be an upgraded Pandora.

 

[Farox]

The high price is certainly not something we plan to keep forever. Once all preorders are shipped and the debts are basically recovered, the price can be easily lowered.

Phew, I may be able to afford a Pandora 2 after all.

Also for me..

 

[Exophase]

The high price is certainly not something we plan to keep forever. Once all preorders are shipped and the debts are basically recovered, the price can be easily lowered.

You mean shipped or upgraded, right?


Seems to me that offering a lower price for original $330 preorderers to upgrade to the DM3730 models, and/or allowing them first dibs on the 150 batch, would have gotten more of them to upgrade. But maybe a lot of them upgraded anyway.

Aditionally, I want to offer 600MHz Pandoras as well as some 256MB ones (repaired CC PCBs) for a cheaper price as well, so we should have Pandoras for everyone in various price ranges.

But for how long? Of course the repaired CC PCBs will be in limited supply, but do you intend to keep buying and making new OMAP3530/256MB units in the future?

 

[ElPoco]

Seems to me that offering a lower price for original $330 preorderers to upgrade to the DM3730 models, and/or allowing them first dibs on the 150 batch, would have gotten more of them to upgrade. But maybe a lot of them upgraded anyway.

I'm not sure. I think that most preorderers who still haven't upgraded won't upgrade anyway. Or maybe for a much lower price. I'm a non-upgraded preorderer and I'd have considered upgrading to the better SoC if it had been something like $100 more, which isn't even the price of the normal upgrade.

 

[Exophase]

I'm not sure. I think that most preorderers who still haven't upgraded won't upgrade anyway. Or maybe for a much lower price. I'm a non-upgraded preorderer and I'd have considered upgrading to the better SoC if it had been something like $100 more, which isn't even the price of the normal upgrade.

Then if they weren't going to do it they don't do it and it's opened to other people... it's not hard to see how someone may not go for paying more money just for them to actually ship the product they ordered years ago, but would pay for a better product.


The point is, OPT may make more (or lose less?) upgrading a ~$330 Pandora to a DM3730 for $270 than they do selling a new one for $700 instead of $500 (or upgraded from a $500 purchase), or instead of the $600 they intend to sell later. Of course they make the most getting an original preorderer to upgrade to the $700 price, but every offer to non-originals misses an opportunity for that. And moving forward every fulfillment of those pre-orders also misses an opportunity for that. Of course this is operating under the assumption that whatever part procurement and manufacturing that has already been made towards the original pre-orders can be used for new Pandoras that cost full price. If they are only reused in Pandoras that cost less than full price then this too would affect the calculation.


A regular focal point of OPT's financial situation is that they need to fulfill all of these old pre-orders that they received ~$330 for when it costs them more than ~$330 to make the Pandoras to send them. So anything that they can do to replace these $330 orders with more expensive ones is a win, including cancellations and upgrade offers. And offering a bit of a lower price for the original pre-orderers, even if only $50 or so, would at least give the impression of rewarding/favoring the people who have been waiting a long time. Or at least giving them first pick in a pretty limited queue. Hell, at least they could have sent out an e-mail to the outstanding order holders instead of just forum posts and tweets, I can only imagine how many people have a really old pre-order but don't visit these boards or stopped visiting..

 

[EvilDragon]

Thats why i consider the current pricepoint for the Panda 1ghz to be a good one, and i ordered one, because it helps the team and the pandora to have a future.

Exactly, that's what we'd love to achieve.


GC is extremely reliable, so we now have proper companies to handle a production of the Pandora 2 when the time comes.


That's a HUGE improvement compared to Pandora 1.

 

[Grench]

Seems to me that offering a lower price for original $330 preorderers to upgrade to the DM3730 models, and/or allowing them first dibs on the 150 batch, would have gotten more of them to upgrade. But maybe a lot of them upgraded anyway.

You stumbled on something here that might actually be a good idea - but probably not in the way you were thinking. Would $50 off the 1Ghz Pandora be enough to encourage them to upgrade all the way to the 1Ghz model?


Right now the existing $330 pre-orders are paying $170 under retail for a $500 Pandora. If they're allowed to upgrade to a 1Ghz Pandora for $320 more - i.e. final price of $650 it would, in theory, clear the queue quicker and get OpenPandora something closer to the current retail price on their offerings.


If OpenPandora wants to do something like that - I'd suggest they contact the oldest pre-orders personally to find out if they are interested.


Just a thought - I'm not part of OpenPandora.

 

[Zuk]

There seems to be a bit of speculation about who a 1Ghz purchaser is and how many are out there. I am one, so I figured I'd let you know my Pandora story.


I love the Open Pandora project. I love the ideals it was based on. I love the product(s) I have. I fell in love with the Wiz when I got it, and the Pandora trumps it hands down in ease of usability and every other respect.


I pre-ordered late in the original batch. I was probably somewhere in the 3000's. I never bothered to really figure it out. When the premiums were offered as, what I saw as a financial crutch (your views may vary), I jumped in and ordered a premium alongside my standing pre-order. I did this because A. I wanted to develop a net game specifically for Pandora and wanted two to test on, and B. I wanted to help out. I kept my original pre-order as a pre-order.


After a while, there were still talks of financial failure and I upgraded my original pre-order to premium. I bought all the "developer fund" badges and whatever, and I mean every single one each time. Click, click, click... right down the column. Mini-metal Pandora? Got one. I also invested in ED's company. I don't plan to make any money on it. That would be nice, though. Maybe someday I can make back the money I spent on my Pandoras.


When the 512 units were offered up, I premium’ed one of those too, knowing the extra cash would help (and I wanted to try a 512 and test my game on it). I gave one of my 256 units to my brother for his deployment.


I ordered a 1Ghz, again because I wanted to test out my game on it and to help out. Also, I'm a bit of an electronic-o-phile, it is a new and better version of a gadget I love, and had enough disposable income to get it. I know there are those of you who see premium orders like "scabs" crossing the picket line. I do feel bad when I read posts of people who have not yet received their original pre-orders. I do feel good knowing my money helped keep OP alive long enough that you will get one.


As far as the pricing and business practices go, I wholly believe there were some newb mistakes, and they have been trying to solve the problems with the least amount of impact on the customer as possible. They are still honoring (albeit ungodly late) pre-order contracts at a loss. I also believe hindsight is 20/20 and that the first attempts seemed good enough at the time, but weren't. They are evolving and changing as time goes on. I do think when they offer things like this they are at least trying to give you something for your money. I invested my money in OP because I wholly believe ED is an awesome person trying to do the right thing (and help you play retro games!). I don’t believe ED would allow, what could arguably be bad business practices, if it were not absolutely necessary at the point in time where they were introduced.


You may think I am "drinking the Kool-Aid," so to speak. Maybe I am.


PS - I'd like to commend Craig for an un-characteristically calm exchange. Things must be getting better!

 

[Exophase]

You stumbled on something here that might actually be a good idea - but probably not in the way you were thinking.

No, I'm pretty sure this is exactly what I was saying.


Zuk, if you're this enthusiastic about spending money to help OPT maybe you should consider paying to upgrade someone else's order instead of getting more and more units for yourself?

 

[pmprog]

Zuk, if you're this enthusiastic about spending money to help OPT maybe you should consider paying to upgrade someone else's order instead of getting more and more units for yourself?

That sounds pretty harsh. To be fair though, there's been a number of times I've seen people post that they've several, and think of all those still waiting. Hell, at Replay, I even felt guilty because I had a really short turnaround on getting my device.


Also, it's been curious watching all these posts in dollar amounts, when the main two shops work in GBP and EUR!? What's the thinking with that?

 

[Prometheus]

Also, it's been curious watching all these posts in dollar amounts, when the main two shops work in GBP and EUR!? What's the thinking with that?

My understanding is that electronics components are generally priced in USD, so it makes sense to set the price in that, too. A lot of companies and organisations do so (another that does this is the Raspberry Pi Foundation).

 

[Zuk]

Zuk, if you're this enthusiastic about spending money to help OPT maybe you should consider paying to upgrade someone else's order instead of getting more and more units for yourself?

I'd be happy to upgrade a proven dev's. Who is a proven dev that needs one?


I didn't see that as harsh. I see that as a good reccomendation. He's asking me to help out in a software way, not a hardware/OP financial way.


EDIT: Clarification.

 

[pmprog]

I didn't see that as harsh. I see that as a good reccomendation. He's asking me to help out in a software way, not a hardware/OP financial way.

You know, never really thought of it that way. It's a good suggestion. Maybe we should get a thread of known developers in need of Pandoras. I'd be willing to chip in a bit. Not sure how much, but probably something...

 

[Exophase]

There might be some lingering ideas for candidates on this thread:


Sorry if I sounded critical, I didn't mean to actually say you should be spending your money on anyone else or imply you were being selfish (quite the opposite). I just figured since you wanted to help and you said you felt bad about people waiting - upgrading someone else's order helps OPT out financially too. Upgrading an old unit and buying a new one should be about the same help, but you're probably not benefited much by having a bunch of extra/weaker Pandoras (but I don't know your use cases)