What Can The Gp2x Do That Gp32 Cant?

[God Ginrai]

Fullspeed N64 Emulator

*run away*

I agree that a playable, mind you somewhat slow and definately not full speed, but PLAYABLE N64 emu is possible. But none of the devs capable of pulling it off want to take on the task.

*runs away alongside hackgrid*

It is not, and never will be, for reasons which should be obvious even to non-devs.

This type of response which LACKS reasons is just a way of making yourself look smart without actually being smart, which also makes you look like an ass. Don't mention the existance of reasons if you can't supply the reasons.

well the PSP's N64 Emu is going quite good... something like 15FPS in Mario64 with the latest release.

Think I will get a GP2x as the TVOut feature seems fun

I believe the GP2X could get at least that speed, maybe 1 or 2 fps more, but no one who has the skills wants to try it.

 

[Shikaku]

Reasons for N64 impossible on the GP2X?

# Processor: 93.75 MHz NEC VR4300 (info), based on MIPS R4300i-series 64-bit RISC CPU (image)

* L1 cache: 24 KiB (split: 16 KiB instruction, 8 KiB data). No L2 cache.
* Busses: 32-bit address and data.
* CPU to RCP Bandwidth: 250 MiB/s (non-DMA). CPU can not directly access RAM.
* Instruction Set: MIPS R4000 64-bit. Addressable Memory Space: 4 GiB (Virtual 1 TiB).
* 5-stage scalar pipeline. Integrated FPU. 93 million operations per second.
* 4.6 million transistors
* Manufactured by NEC using 0.35 µm process.

# RAM: 4 MiB RDRAM (image) (upgradeable to 8 MiB with 4 MiB Expansion Pak)

* Data path: 9-bit width at 500 MHz
* Potential Memory Bandwidth: 562.5 MiB/s
* ≅640 ns RAM latency

# Graphics: SGI 62.5 MHz 64-bit RCP (Reality Coprocessor) (image) contains two sub-processors:

* RSP (Reality Signal Processor) controls 3D graphics and sound functions
o MIPS R4000-based 8-bit integer vector processor
o Programmable through microcode (µcode). Allows functions to be modified or added.
o Transformation, clipping, lighting, triangle setup, and audio decoding (audio could be done on main CPU as well)
o Geometry throughput: initially ≅100,000 polygons per second with full quality. Some later games go higher with highly optimized microcode.

I'll highlight the 2 big reasons:

1. Processor: 93.75 MHz NEC VR4300 (info), based on MIPS R4300i-series 64-bit RISC CPU (image)

2. Graphics: SGI 62.5 MHz 64-bit RCP (Reality Coprocessor) (image) contains two sub-processors

Our humble GP2X is only 2 200 MHz... For GOOD emulation the requirements is 10 times the power of the original, and because there is no dedicated 3D hardware... it's just no.

 

[epitaph]

This type of response which LACKS reasons is just a way of making yourself look smart without actually being smart, which also makes you look like an ass. Don't mention the existance of reasons if you can't supply the reasons.

True. I should have explained myself -- but that doesn't change the fact that the reasons are quite obvious.

I'll highlight the 2 big reasons:

1. Processor: 93.75 MHz NEC VR4300 (info), based on MIPS R4300i-series 64-bit RISC CPU (image)

2. Graphics: SGI 62.5 MHz 64-bit RCP (Reality Coprocessor) (image) contains two sub-processors

Our humble GP2X is only 2 200 MHz... For GOOD emulation the requirements is 10 times the power of the original, and because there is no dedicated 3D hardware... it's just no.

I think he nailed it.

 

[God Ginrai]

This type of response which LACKS reasons is just a way of making yourself look smart without actually being smart, which also makes you look like an ass. Don't mention the existance of reasons if you can't supply the reasons.

True. I should have explained myself -- but that doesn't change the fact that the reasons are quite obvious.

I'll highlight the 2 big reasons:

1. Processor: 93.75 MHz NEC VR4300 (info), based on MIPS R4300i-series 64-bit RISC CPU (image)

2. Graphics: SGI 62.5 MHz 64-bit RCP (Reality Coprocessor) (image) contains two sub-processors

Our humble GP2X is only 2 200 MHz... For GOOD emulation the requirements is 10 times the power of the original, and because there is no dedicated 3D hardware... it's just no.

I think he nailed it.

He nailed something, that's right. He nailed that it would be DAMN HARD to do, and also, that what most people consider GOOD emulation (30fps no frameskip or more) probably isn't possible.

He has not nailed that it's impossible to get playable emulation. It might be a huge workload, but it's possible.

The emulator Corn proves the theory that you don't need amazing specs to get good emulation! and if you can get GOOD emulation by most people's standards on a 160-something MHz pentium II processor with Corn, then you can get PLAYABLE (mind you, not good by you guys standards ;P) emulation on the GP2X which has 2 200 MHz ARM processors.

I know you can't say 1 ARM MHz = 1 Pentium MHz, but you CAN say that 2x200 ARM MHz ≈ 160-something Pentium MHz.

Even if the 2x200 ARMs aren't WAY more powerful, or maybe even just aren't more powerful at all, there's no way that with GOOD code that they can be LESS powerful.

I don't believe that either of the GP2X's processors are any sort of magical wonder-processor that can do anything. If I did, I'd be one of those idiots who asks why we don't have fullspeed PS2 or XBox emulation. I understand that these things have limits, but I believe that EVEN with these limits, a PLAYABLE N64 emulator is possible.

 

[gaterooze]

Ginrai, Corn only works so well because A PC also has a dedicated 3D video card. And, similarly, the PSP has a dedicated 3D GPU. Without those things, it would require a lot more grunt than the GP2X has.

It's not a big deal. N64 is the system I would LEAST want emulated anyway.

 

[Epicenter]

There will never be a full-speed N64 emulator for the GP2X. There will never be a 30 FPS n64 emulator for the GP2X. Stop asking for one. It isn't going to happen, ever. Period. That's ALL THERE IS TO IT. The hardware is incapable of it-- not only is emulating ONE 96 MHz processor a nightmare on a 200 Mhz ARM9-- even at 300 Mhz it'd be a colossal accomplishment-- there is NO HARDWARE RENDERING ENGINE-- software rendering alone of an N64 game is enough to entirely load both processors and probably still not hit the 45 FPS mark, maybe not even the 30.

Seriously. Enough.

 

[God Ginrai]

Ginrai, Corn only works so well because A PC also has a dedicated 3D video card. And, similarly, the PSP has a dedicated 3D GPU. Without those things, it would require a lot more grunt than the GP2X has.

It's not a big deal. N64 is the system I would LEAST want emulated anyway.

Corn also got Fullspeed. I'm not saying we can get fullspeed.

And good for you, that means you won't be waiting for an N64 emulator, anyways.

There will never be a full-speed N64 emulator for the GP2X. There will never be a 30 FPS n64 emulator for the GP2X. Stop asking for one. It isn't going to happen, ever. Period. That's ALL THERE IS TO IT. The hardware is incapable of it-- not only is emulating ONE 96 MHz processor a nightmare on a 200 Mhz ARM9-- even at 300 Mhz it'd be a colossal accomplishment-- there is NO HARDWARE RENDERING ENGINE-- software rendering alone of an N64 game is enough to entirely load both processors and probably still not hit the 45 FPS mark, maybe not even the 30.

Seriously. Enough.

You misunderstood my post. I said that most of you guys would consider 30 fps to be good emulation. I said that I didn't think it was POSSIBLE to have 30 FPs. I said that the GP2X would probably only be able to do 15-17 fps.

If you weren't so hot-headed and vehement about any suggestion of an N64 emulator then maybe you would be able to at least make accusations based on what the person actually SAID.

But I do agree that this is enough, because this is SERIOUSLY off-topic, since the person didn't ask about N64.

 

[lol2232]

Which ever one is heavier would be a good weapon.

 

[Epicenter]

You misunderstood my post. I said that most of you guys would consider 30 fps to be good emulation. I said that I didn't think it was POSSIBLE to have 30 FPs. I said that the GP2X would probably only be able to do 15-17 fps.

If you weren't so hot-headed and vehement about any suggestion of an N64 emulator then maybe you would be able to at least make accusations based on what the person actually SAID.

But I do agree that this is enough, because this is SERIOUSLY off-topic, since the person didn't ask about N64.

15-17 FPS is extremely ambitious. Above 7 FPS would be an accomplishment.

 

[zektor]

Can I ask what would be the point tho? 15 or even 17fps pretty much bites the big one. There are alot of other more "emulatable" systems to tackle IMHO.

 

[shrubberyrobbery]

OMG! what happened to this thread?

yeah gp2x is a lot better than gp32 for all the reasons mentioned but... there are a couple of things I REALLY like on my gp32:
1. fast boot
2. the clicky joystick (oh, if only the gp2x had the gp32's joystick, I would be very happy)

 

[Epicenter]

Can I ask what would be the point tho? 15 or even 17fps pretty much bites the big one. There are alot of other more "emulatable" systems to tackle IMHO.

It's not useful at all, that's my point. I can't tolerate under 30 FPS, and even that can be a stretch since anything that flashes on and off in a sprite-based game becomes invisible there half the time.

 

[ste_167]

N64 emulation is a certainty. 60fps and sound.

Here's how to do it (if I could code, I'd get it done in a week or so):

Processor 1 at 266Mhz: 3D graphics
Processor 2 at 200Mhz: Sound, and input.

It's not as hard as it seems. There would be a little bit of Mhz left over to allow it to run at a higher-resolution on Tv-out (1024x768) and add bump-mapping to make the games look better.

 

[Shikaku]

Edit: I'm sorry I can't read sarcasm on the internet...

N64 emulation is a certainty. 60fps and sound.

Here's how to do it (if I could code, I'd get it done in a week or so):

Hi, my name is I don't know anything and I talk about things I know nothing about by pulling stuff out of my ass and pretending it works

 

[yaustar]

N64 emulation is a certainty. 60fps and sound.

Here's how to do it (if I could code, I'd get it done in a week or so):

Processor 1 at 266Mhz: 3D graphics
Processor 2 at 200Mhz: Sound, and input.

It's not as hard as it seems. There would be a little bit of Mhz left over to allow it to run at a higher-resolution on Tv-out (1024x768) and add bump-mapping to make the games look better.

I think this was sarcasm more then anything. The reason that the PSP has a N64 Emulator that works as well as it does is because of the similarity of the main processor.

 

[ste_167]

Yep, it was a tongue in cheek comment based on the expectations of a few round here! I think 280Mhz would be needed really.

Biggest advantages of the GP2x over the GP32 are:

- the screen is far nicer
- it's a 'new' machine and the emulator quantity/quality will only get better
- it's faster allowing for such emulators as Neo Geo and Amiga
- tv-out
- far better at playing movies
- SD cards over SMCs
- SDL for porting of existing games
- Breakout box coming soon

 

[Bongo]

N64 emulation is a certainty. 60fps and sound.
[/quote name='ste_167' post='409771' date='Jun 19 2006, 06:25 AM']


wow yeah he's either a complete and total retard

 

[God Ginrai]

Can I ask what would be the point tho? 15 or even 17fps pretty much bites the big one. There are alot of other more "emulatable" systems to tackle IMHO.

It's not useful at all, that's my point. I can't tolerate under 30 FPS, and even that can be a stretch since anything that flashes on and off in a sprite-based game becomes invisible there half the time.

Meh, 15 fps is fine for me. It might not be the prettiest thing, but add some frameskips in there and you're a little better off. Also, I was told that frameskip normally worked better with 3D games, since there aren't whole sprites that might be left out.

I play Super Mario Kart.smc at 14-15 fps on SquidgeSNES every once in a while, and although it's a little slow, it's still playable. So if I had 15fps fs2 or something for OoT, that'd be fine by me!

 

[Fishbong]

Nevermind.

 

[Mr.Jabberwocky]

Yep, it was a tongue in cheek comment based on the expectations of a few round here! I think 280Mhz would be needed really.

Biggest advantages of the GP2x over the GP32 are:

- the screen is far nicer
So why did the GP32 never need a utility to tweak the display to get it almost (but not quite) right ?
- it's a 'new' machine and the emulator quantity/quality will only get better
Possibly - it also has the advantage of having emulators that were developed for the GP32 easily ported to it
- it's faster allowing for such emulators as Neo Geo and Amiga
You would think so - but it has been a bit disappointing. On paper the speed is there.
- tv-out
I never use it. Its a handheld not a console.
- far better at playing movies
Can't comment. I have a 42" TV screen for that kind of thing.
- SD cards over SMCs
Now that is an advantage. I have never felt restricted by the capacity of SMCs but I am sure some have.
- SDL for porting of existing games
SDL is available for the GP32. It was not used much as the GamePark SDK and Mr.Mirko's SDK were more than adequate. Besides this an open device for creative people to come up with their own stuff on. Porting stuff defeats the whole point of that.
- Breakout box coming soon
I would never use it. Its a handheld not a console.

My GP2X has first edition emblazoned on it. Well it did, but I can not make it out any more beneath the layer of dust that has settled on it. It has been a bit of a disappointment but only because I have the GP32 to compare it to. In its own right the GP2X is a nice little device and has inherited the GP32's scene (it's major selling point IMO) but the one significant advantage - speed - has not proved that significant (to date) and in some other respects it is just not as good ie. thumbstick, volume control, boot time, battery life and (IMO) the BLU display.