Virginia Uni Shooting - At Least 33 Dead

[DemonStar55]

A society that places the importance of owning a gun so high that it is enshrined in the constitution (is it really?)

We dont stress importance of owning a gun at all. We have the right to own one. There's nothing questionable about that.

Woman also have the right to vote. The amendment doesn't stress that it's important, we just permit it.
I would say that's far more important than the right to own a gun.

QUOTE
@nick: I dont support the carrying of weapons either. In fact, the general US populi are no allowed to carry handguns in public afaik

I'll have to look that one up, I was under the impression that one would be allowed to (although putting the entire US in one bubble would be silly). And Wikipedia isn't helping. EDIT: Depends on the state, but it seems most allow carrying a gun in public provided you obtain a license.

I think carrying one around would be illegal because it could induce a panic

 

[Yorper]

It must be nice to live in a country such as yours, where there are no shootings and no arrogant people. It sounds like paradise ...

Oh it is, it really is B)

 

[daclassicgamingmaster]

Nick you are missing the point completely. I'm not putting woman's right to vote above gun ownage at all. I'm not comparing the two. I'm just providing an example. The point is that we have the RIGHT to own a gun. Period.

I do believe you're misinformed about this country. We are not allowed to carry guns in public for many reasons. As demon pointed out, it would induce a panic. I remember a couple years back, I was eating in a local pizza place and I saw a man in plain clothes with a gat in a holster. I freaked the fuck out as he was right NEXT to me. I informed the owner, who in turn informed me of his name, officer whatever.

True story.

There have been numerous debates on whether or not we should be allowed to carry them in public. Notably, there was a huge issue when that black dude mayor dinkons or whatever was elected to NY. Crime went up, and the public yelled for the right to carry guns in NYC.

Anyway, some of this sicko's plays were released:

http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/cho-seung-huis-plays/

There were signs

 

[nickspoon]

Which is why a lot of states have laws stating that you can only carry a concealed gun. Wikipedia? Misinforming me? Unheard of!

As for the rights point, if you consider the right to bear arms to be important enough to be within the constitution, rather, even, than being judged on a state or even smaller division level, which I would say would be preferable, but that isn't what I'm getting at. What I'm getting at is the fact that people consider the right to bear arms to be important enough to be up there with the fundamental rights of the 'land of the free', like free speech, the right to vote, etc. etc.

 

[Nova]

The shooter was Cho Seung-Hui born in South Korea... Hmm I wonder if he had a GP2X?

Shit, don't say that, Jack Thompson'll be on us like a fly to a turd...

 

[DemonStar55]

Which is why a lot of states have laws stating that you can only carry a concealed gun. Wikipedia? Misinforming me? Unheard of!

As for the rights point, if you consider the right to bear arms to be important enough to be within the constitution, rather, even, than being judged on a state or even smaller division level, which I would say would be preferable, but that isn't what I'm getting at. What I'm getting at is the fact that people consider the right to bear arms to be important enough to be up there with the fundamental rights of the 'land of the free', like free speech, the right to vote, etc. etc.

Eric S. Raymond holds it up there...

 

[shinneri]

I doubt gun legality made him do it quite frankly. Though I'm entirely against private ownership of guns, it just doesn't make someone kill. Something did, and the investigation will bring out what that is.

It's a good thing we had private ownership of firearms during the American Revolution, wouldn't you agree? It isn't as though we've evolved beyond needing to protect ourselves from tyranny.

You recognize that guns aren't what makes people kill, and yet you are against private ownership of guns? It's as though you want to blame guns while not blaming guns.

Something deeper is at fault with our societies. Gun-owning citizens haven't always been like this. Having guns doesn't necessicate murderous tendencies. Look at Switzerland.

How do you see a conflict in what I said? I'm against private ownership of guns (for the record, I'm highly conservative on almost all other things). Guns don't make people kill, but there can be no doubt that the loose control we have here facilitates it.

 

[LordFu]

All You Need to Know About Gun Control in 90 Words:

QUOTE
Gun-control laws do not control crime because crimes are not committed by guns; they are committed by criminals. Criminals will always have guns because they do not obey laws, including anti-gun laws. Those without guns are easy prey for criminals with guns. Gun control encourages crime.

The right to bear arms was included in the Bill of Rights, not to deter crime, but to deter oppressive government. Just governments honor and protect the right to bear arms. Oppressive governments fear and prohibit the right to bear arms.

Guns are dangerous. The only thing more dangerous is not having them.


Regarding this specific incident, it is a shame that classes weren't cancelled after the first shooting, but the police had no way of knowing that it wasn't an isolated event. I'm suprised he was able to shoot so many with so little apparent resistance. It's a shame no one was carrying a concealed firearm. I'm unfamiliar with the law in Virginia. In Missouri you can conceal carry, unless the building you're entering specifically prohibits it, and you have the proper license, of course.

 

[TelcoLou]

All You Need to Know About Gun Control in 90 Words:

QUOTE
Gun-control laws do not control crime because crimes are not committed by guns; they are committed by criminals. Criminals will always have guns because they do not obey laws, including anti-gun laws. Those without guns are easy prey for criminals with guns. Gun control encourages crime.

The right to bear arms was included in the Bill of Rights, not to deter crime, but to deter oppressive government. Just governments honor and protect the right to bear arms. Oppressive governments fear and prohibit the right to bear arms.

Guns are dangerous. The only thing more dangerous is not having them.

Regarding this specific incident, it is a shame that classes weren't cancelled after the first shooting, but the police had no way of knowing that it wasn't an isolated event. I'm suprised he was able to shoot so many with so little apparent resistance. It's a shame no one was carrying a concealed firearm. I'm unfamiliar with the law in Virginia. In Missouri you can conceal carry, unless the building you're entering specifically prohibits it, and you have the proper license, of course.

What was the source of that quote?

I know for a fact that I could never own a handgun. On my way into work a short time ago, some lady driving a mini-van talking on her cellphone blasted through a stop sign and nearly side-swiped me. I could feel the blood rush to my face as I was slamming on the brakes, steering wildly and cursing her very existence.

If I was carrying a handgun, I'd be in jail right now for murder. Yes, I'm that angry, and in the heat of the moment, would have hunted her down and blown her fucking brains out ... then, I'm sure, 5 minutes later, I'd be insane with regret and remorse ... after all, maybe her kid just got into a terrible schoolyard accident, and she was on the phone with the hospital .... or not. Doesn't matter ... I have no right to take anyone's life, and neither did this asshole.

 

[DemonStar55]

All You Need to Know About Gun Control in 90 Words:

QUOTE
Gun-control laws do not control crime because crimes are not committed by guns; they are committed by criminals. Criminals will always have guns because they do not obey laws, including anti-gun laws. Those without guns are easy prey for criminals with guns. Gun control encourages crime.

The right to bear arms was included in the Bill of Rights, not to deter crime, but to deter oppressive government. Just governments honor and protect the right to bear arms. Oppressive governments fear and prohibit the right to bear arms.

Guns are dangerous. The only thing more dangerous is not having them.

Regarding this specific incident, it is a shame that classes weren't cancelled after the first shooting, but the police had no way of knowing that it wasn't an isolated event. I'm suprised he was able to shoot so many with so little apparent resistance. It's a shame no one was carrying a concealed firearm. I'm unfamiliar with the law in Virginia. In Missouri you can conceal carry, unless the building you're entering specifically prohibits it, and you have the proper license, of course.

What was the source of that quote?

I know for a fact that I could never own a handgun. On my way into work a short time ago, some lady driving a mini-van talking on her cellphone blasted through a stop sign and nearly side-swiped me. I could feel the blood rush to my face as I was slamming on the brakes, steering wildly and cursing her very existence.

If I was carrying a handgun, I'd be in jail right now for murder. Yes, I'm that angry, and in the heat of the moment, would have hunted her down and blown her fucking brains out ... then, I'm sure, 5 minutes later, I'd be insane with regret and remorse ... after all, maybe her kid just got into a terrible schoolyard accident, and she was on the phone with the hospital .... or not. Doesn't matter ... I have no right to take anyone's life, and neither did this asshole.

good reason for guns to be illegal, for the safety of anyone that pisses off TelcoLou.

 

[nickspoon]

QUOTE
Oppressive governments fear and prohibit the right to bear arms.

I wouldn't describe the British government as oppressive. In fact, they seem to be much less oppressive than the government of the USA, who have been shown to be, you know, spying on people. But that's OK because they let you carry offensive weapons.

good reason for guns to be illegal, for the safety of anyone that pisses off TelcoLou.

QFT.

 

[TelcoLou]

I wouldn't describe the British government as oppressive. In fact, they seem to be much less oppressive than the government of the USA, who have been shown to be, you know, spying on people. But that's OK because they let you carry offensive weapons.

ooo, I like the way this topic is headed, can I play too?

I guess your government lets its citizens do the spying for them ... much better, no?

 

[Alex.]

All You Need to Know About Gun Control in 90 Words:

QUOTE
Gun-control laws do not control crime because crimes are not committed by guns; they are committed by criminals. Criminals will always have guns because they do not obey laws, including anti-gun laws. Those without guns are easy prey for criminals with guns. Gun control encourages crime.

The right to bear arms was included in the Bill of Rights, not to deter crime, but to deter oppressive government. Just governments honor and protect the right to bear arms. Oppressive governments fear and prohibit the right to bear arms.

Guns are dangerous. The only thing more dangerous is not having them.

That's the most stupid thing I read today, and this morning I read CNN.com's headlines.

QUOTE
Gun-control laws do not control crime because crimes are not committed by guns; they are committed by criminals.

Gun crimes are committed by criminals with guns, that should be made clearer

QUOTE
Those without guns are easy prey for criminals with guns. Gun control encourages crime.

How many honest, regular people shot back at attacking criminal gunmen, and saved their own life, in the past five years?

QUOTE
The right to bear arms was included in the Bill of Rights, not to deter crime, but to deter oppressive government.

Sweet, then how come none of the 49% anti-Bush voters don't step up with their guns to throw off what they definitely believe to be an unfit government?

QUOTE
Just governments honor and protect the right to bear arms. Oppressive governments fear and prohibit the right to bear arms.

Is this from the "Only Pussies Fear Guns" volumes of literary works?

 

[Nova]

Can you please all shut the f uck up?

We are trying to pay our respects to 33 people who's lives were ended by the actions of one lunatic, not who's country has the most opressive government.

Show a little fucking respect, all of you.

 

[nickspoon]

I wouldn't describe the British government as oppressive. In fact, they seem to be much less oppressive than the government of the USA, who have been shown to be, you know, spying on people. But that's OK because they let you carry offensive weapons.

ooo, I like the way this topic is headed, can I play too?

I guess your government lets its citizens do the spying for them ... much better, no?

Good point, we have CCTV cameras. This is absolutely terrible. I mean, making sure people aren't stealing things, vandalising things, etc. and discouraging people from doing so is certainly not worth the loss of privacy in a public place. What? You mean public places aren't private?

Frankly, I could install a CCTV camera down the road, and project the image on to an enormous screen atop my house (provided I got planning permission). I wouldn't, however, be allowed to wiretap, because that's illegal.

 

[TelcoLou]

Can you please all shut the f uck up?

We are trying to pay our respects to 33 people who's lives were ended by the actions of one lunatic, not who's country has the most opressive government.

Show a little fucking respect, all of you.

... you should have reported this topic then. This way it would be closed and we could all look at it and not reply.

Honestly, what did you expect, 200+ replies all saying "Yeah, our prayers go out to the families of all the victims." ?

Maybe this is why Hando doesn't want any political or religious discussions here ... <_<

 

[Nova]

I hate how this thread has been derailed. This is America's worst ever mass killing, and you are all discussing how bad France/England/USA/[insert country here]'s government is.

No I wasn't looking for "our prayers go out", I was looking for posts more like the ones at the beginning, and just a tad of respect for the families tonight who are missing members and will be for the rest of their lives, maybe posts about the monster who commited this henous act, maybe posts about how to prevent atrocities like this in the future, but under no circumstances did I want or expect petty squabbling.

 

[daclassicgamingmaster]

You know nick, you're usually well informed, which is why im surprised to be honest. To claim that the US government is "oppressive, but it's ok because we can carry guns" is nonsense. We cannot carry them around in public. We can't. That's it. The right to bear arms means that we can own them. We can have them and play with them in the comfort of our own home. We cannot however, carry them around whenever we feel like it.

You are misconstruing this constitution. The second amendment is not "the right to have guns", it also discusses a well regulated militia. Our right to have guns "shall not be infringed".

Don't think the British government is so fantastic. It's not all sparkly and magical and it certainly fucks up like the rest of the world governments.


I'm really surprised, you don't usually talk out of your ass so much

 

[trooper]

Topic CLOSED, As requested.

Trooper