Version Confusion

[DaveC]

That cap doesnt look so bad.
I hope gp2x.co.uk doesnt replace that one with thiers that say gp2x.
Not that I have anything against that one, but I would like to try the new one.
I can always order one of thiers if this new one turns out to be crap.

It will probably be ok, while it stays on. Since it is made from cheap ABS or Styrene expect it to loosen and fall of the shaft real quick now due to the extra leverage. I predict that will happen, remember that I said it here.

You would be better off buying a cap from Craig as his are made from nylon, a much more robust material. If you don't like the logo you can always grind it off.

As far as guys getting pissed about the release of the GP2X M2 don't the M1 has a better screen.

 

[gaterooze]

Think of it this way... you could sell your Mk1 for about 3/4 of what you paid for it, then buy a Mk2 -- the 1/4 cost you have lost out on is the premium for the months of use you've had out of it up until now.

Same as if, for example, you buy an Xbox360 now, or if you buy it a couple of months down the track when it's cheaper.

 

[GeminiDomino]

Think of it this way... you could sell your Mk1 for about 3/4 of what you paid for it, then buy a Mk2 -- the 1/4 cost you have lost out on is the premium for the months of use you've had out of it up until now.

Same as if, for example, you buy an Xbox360 now, or if you buy it a couple of months down the track when it's cheaper.

If I could do that, then I wouldn't be so mad (that essentially would be the same thing as trade-in +$50 I mentioned earlier in the thread).

The question is who is going to buy the broken one used when for $50 more they can get a new one with better design?

 

[LineOf7s]

The question is who is going to buy the broken one used when for $50 more they can get a new one with better design?

I would love to scoop up some discounted MK1's I love my MK1 .

 

[gaterooze]

As far as guys getting pissed about the release of the GP2X M2 don't the M1 has a better screen.

Which is "better" is clearly a matter of preference and hinges on whether you enjoy scanlines or not.

I thought you wanted the screen to have better contrast, blacker blacks? The Mk2 does. Check the new photo from JR2swiss:

The question is who is going to buy the broken one used when for $50 more they can get a new one with better design?

It's not broken, it's just slightly different -- and not *necessarily* better overall.

Trust me, there will definitely be people who would buy Mk1s for $50 less. There were people who bought GP32 FLU's for $50 less than a BLU and the difference between those was much greater!

 

[iatneH]

Geez guys...

Let's say you buy a new car.

Next year, a new model comes out. Do you go back to your dealer and moan and demand compensation?

Cripes, sometimes I think that there would be LESS whining if GPH never released an upgraded model at all, and everyone would be perfectly happy with the MK.Is. GPH is giving you a better product (same with Nintendo) and look at how negatively you are receiving it.

And sorry for being particularly abrasive, I just wanted to put things in a different perspective.

 

[GeminiDomino]

Geez guys...

Let's say you buy a new car.

Next year, a new model comes out. Do you go back to your dealer and moan and demand compensation?

A new model, or a model correcting flaws in the old one (hint, they're called "recalls").

Cripes, sometimes I think that there would be LESS whining if GPH never released an upgraded model at all, and everyone would be perfectly happy with the MK.Is. GPH is giving you a better product (same with Nintendo) and look at how negatively you are receiving it.

What the hell are you smoking?! GPH isn't *giving* anyone jack. They're SELLING us a better product because the ORIGINAL product they sold us is flawed. Broken. Substandard.

 

[Squidge]

But hasn't the GP2X only just been officially released? With the MkI basically being a pre-release beta product?

In my view, none of the "faults" of the MkI were worthy of a recall, as the MkII is simply an improved version of MkI, going from the experiences and customer suggestions of people that have bought a MkI.

A nice case in point in comparing cars to the gp2x would be the case against Renault car bonnet clamps. Renault released a car with a plastic handle for the bonnet clamp, and a year later changed the design to a metal one. The metal one was ten times better, but did anyone go back to renault and demand compensation because of this? No. Hell, Renault they didn't even accept responsibility when the cars using the plastic clamps started failing and the bonnet opened and smashed in your windscreen whilst doing 70mph down the motorway and causing a major accident. After being exposed on various TV programmes, all you from them is check your clamp regularly by your dealership, or change the clamp to the new style at your own expense.

 

[bpmurray]

Do you go back to your dealer and moan and demand compensation?

Well, for a car, perhaps not, but for a computer, yes. While PCs have been commoditized, a mini or mainframe purchase will usually have some sort of automatic upgrade if something new happens within 6 months or so, and will usually have a clause that guarantees any price drops too. I don't think anyone expects something like that for the GP2X, but we would like some solution to the joystick irritations. Most countries have consumer legislation that require that any product be "fit for the purpose for which it is intended" - that's where the joystick falls down.

 

[Squidge]

The thing is, the joystick certainly isn't ideal, but it does allow you to move in every advertised direction, so it is clearly "fit for purpose".

Also, changing the cap makes it much better.

 

[ste_167]

A

plastic handle for the bonnet clamp

isn't exactly as important as a dodgy steering wheel, if you get what I'm saying

 

[GeminiDomino]

The thing is, the joystick certainly isn't ideal, but it does allow you to move in every advertised direction, so it is clearly "fit for purpose".

Also, changing the cap makes it much better.

Changing the cap made it *slightly* better. Moving in "every advertised direction" doesn't clear the "fit for purpose" label, though. If it was miswired so that pressing left moved you down, pressing up moved you up, etc... then that's a problem. As it is, it doesn't *reliably* let me move in the direction indicated by the joystick, which is my problem with it.

Ste had a point. The joystick is the core of the primary use of the device. Comparing it to irresponsible action by an automobile company doesn't reflect well on GPH.

I don't recall "demanding" a replacement from anyone. I remember mentioning it would be cool if there was some kind of trade-in like a lot of the game stores did with the GBA when the GBA-SP came out. That's hardly a demand.

I'm just not enough of a fanboi to give them a pass for it without being irked, since this damn stick is the only problem I have with the unit.


(update to replace a disappearing participle)

 

[nubie]

Changing the cap made it *slightly* better. Moving in "every advertised direction" doesn't clear the "fit for purpose" label, though. If it was miswired so that pressing left moved you down, pressing up moved you up, etc... then that's a problem. As it is, it doesn't *reliably* let me move in the direction indicated by the joystick, which is my problem with it.

Ste had a point. The joystick is the core of the primary use of the device. Comparing it to irresponsible action by an automobile company doesn't reflect well on GPH.

I don't recall "demanding" a replacement from anyone. I remember mentioning it would be cool if there was some kind of trade-in like a lot of the game stores did with the GBA when the GBA-SP came out. That's hardly a demand.

I would still be ticked if I go the MKII and the stick quits on me. You are aware the stick is rated for 100,000 presses only? I have the data sheet for it, it is off-the-shelf crap.

If I were you I would ask ED* if he is going to make the Radek D-Pad mod (Closer To The Final Replacement Of Stick) available as a service, trade-in or otherwise, it might be cheaper to get that done then replace your GP with a MKII.

Even if you get a MKII your stick WILL fail eventually, it is the same hardware, just rotated 45 degrees to swap the ordinals and diagonals.

*EvilDragon, proprietor of German GP2X shop

 

[DavidBeoulve]

Well at I have one of DaveC's caps already. But I thought by "Rotated Joystick" they meant they actually rotated the component inside to get rid of that @#$!! diagonal bias.

GPH did do that. Craig or Dave cued them into the problem and the fix. The Mk2 has this fix.

I remain a little confused. There's a lot of fear & doubt over things we haven't actually seen. A few folks have seen both the GP2X Mk1 and Mk2 (mostly distributors), and here's the consensus I've seen in their statements:

1. The Joystick fix is noticeable and much improved, when alternating between the Mk1 and Mk2. The Mk2 is better. (Dzz says otherwise, read below.)
2. The screen is a matter of preference. Many emulated games that anticipate PAL or NTSC TV screens look worse on the Mk2 (perhaps as they would on your PC without anti-aliasing or smoothing?), however, the Mk2's screen is brighter and has better contrast. This is also offset by the viewing angle, which the Mk1's screen is superior. Lastly, the Mk2's screen is "better" for GP2X native games and certain emulated systems.

If I'm wrong on that, please tell me.

Conjecture and heartache over probabilities is one thing - and debating the merits of something we can't easily quantify is another. I politely suggest we leave that up to those who have both systems and wait for reviews... and I won't be offended if you feel compelled to continue either

 

[Dzz]

Perhaps I'm the only one, but I think the stock MkI is a perfectly fine device. If your joystick doesn't work you have a defective unit. I have two and they both work just fine.

 

[nubie]

Perhaps I'm the only one, but I think the stock MkI is a perfectly fine device. If your joystick doesn't work you have a defective unit. I have two and they both work just fine.

Some don't have the control over their thumb to accurately hit the ordinals, I know I found it a bit hard starting out.

I am not bashing the joystick, it works.

*Facts are that it is rated at 100,000 presses in the data sheet of the stick.

*Facts are the MKI units have a zone of 0.7-1.5 mm to hit the up/down/left/right directions, at a throw of about 1cm that is 10:1, I don't like those odds.

*The MKII has rotated the stick so that the ordinals are now much easier to hit.

*The MKII DOES NOT have any different hardware in the stick.

*The MKII Stick will be more prone to breakage from the extra force of the new cap.

*A FIX requires replacing the hardware, they rotated the stick, a COMPRIMISE.

 

[cbox]

Thanks for the link to the lik-sang new joystick cap, I figure I'll pick it up for a buck since I was going to get some DS Lite stuff from them anyway. I like having a variety of joystick caps to mess with, I already picked up Craig's new one but haven't had a chance to experiment with it. I've been using my PSP cap mod for awhile and I'm pretty happy with it though, it's rubber and pretty comfortable.

 

[nickspoon]

The stick is NOT faulty. It never was. It does exactly what it was intended to do, and it does this correctly. Maybe not well, but correctly. If you press a direction, you hit a microswitch. This causes a signal that tells the system what the direction you hit was. If you hit a direction that is not the one you intended to hit, it's your fault. The stick is merely a mechanism.

 

[Aninhumer]

I thought the 100,000 presses was just a manufacturer cop-out?
Besides 100,000 is still a lot, we had the same argument about the NAND until someone pointed out that 100,000 writes would last about 40 years, with constant use. (Obviously 100,000 presses wouldn't last that long, but probably longer than you think)

 

[cbox]

I don't think they actually sit there and press it until it dies and count how many times it took. MTBF is always just a guesstimation and will probably last way longer than the expected lifetime of the product.