Turbografx Emulation

[rlyeh]

OOtake is *the* best open source emulator for TG right now. Very complete and compatible. And source code is not bad at all.

It's based on PC2E emulator, heavily modified though.

It's a great piece of software, which deserves to be ported

 

[DaveC]

OOtake is *the* best open source emulator for TG right now. Very complete and compatible. And source code is not bad at all.

It's based on PC2E emulator, heavily modified though.

It's a great piece of software, which deserves to be ported

Do you think the GP2X could handle a port at a decent speed?

 

[Squidge]

Shalll we find out?

I'll see if I can port it over today.

If it's too slow, we can always optimise it by making it less compatible and accurate

However, to answer your question:
QUOTE

Perhaps, CPU more than "1GHz-2GHz class" is necessary to play comfortably.
- If playing with a not fast personal computer, play in full-screen(It is
possible to switch with "F12" key).

To play by the sense of a real average machine, it is recommended to play by
"JoyPad with a good reaction". The reaction of the pad to which the
vibration function has adhered by an original driver might be late. Use the
quick one that moves by the driver of the Windows standard to operate.

 

[halo9]

I'd certainly agree with Ootake as the best PCE emulator on PC, it seems to be currently well maintained as well, regular updates.

It'd be interesting to see how it comes over Squidge.

 

[DaveC]

Shalll we find out?

I'll see if I can port it over today.

If it's too slow, we can always optimise it by making it less compatible and accurate

However, to answer your question:
QUOTE

Perhaps, CPU more than "1GHz-2GHz class" is necessary to play comfortably.
- If playing with a not fast personal computer, play in full-screen(It is
possible to switch with "F12" key).

To play by the sense of a real average machine, it is recommended to play by
"JoyPad with a good reaction". The reaction of the pad to which the
vibration function has adhered by an original driver might be late. Use the
quick one that moves by the driver of the Windows standard to operate.

Ouch, 1-2 GHz? That doesn't sound very good. If the code is so good like Rlyeh said howcome it needs so much CPU to run? Is it maybe all of the Windows bloat that eats up CPU time?

 

[euro48k]

expecting any Squidge-news for tomorrow?

 

[Squidge]

expecting any Squidge-news for tomorrow?

Doubtful, I've not even looked at it yet!

 

[Rivroner]

What about FBA2X Squidge? It´s very fastand only need a better frontend , volume level, and to fix the "too much bright" screen.

I am glad that maybe a better PC-Engine emulator will be released but i think that is better to finish an almost finished emulator like FBA that you started

Thank you for listening.

 

[Exophase]

My emulator plays a lot of games (HuCard only sorry) and has good enough sound. I'm gonna work on putting it on GP2X and doing the appropriate optimizations soon.

 

[Squidge]

Fair enough, I'll let Exophase do that and I'll look at FBA when I get time

 

[Rivroner]

Fair enough, I'll let Exophase do that and I'll look at FBA when I get time

Very happy to read that Thank you

EDIT:I have test FBA2x in my new F200 and the "too much bright" problem have been solved But now you launch a game and in a few seconds the GP2X crash Sound problems of the F200 woth 8250 or 16500hz I suposse.

A volume level would be enough for me to enjoy this emu in F200; of course a fix to the crash problem A lot of CPS1 games are running like perfect or at least quicker than in MAME emulator.

Thank you

 

[StealthBagel]

Ouch, 1-2 GHz? That doesn't sound very good. If the code is so good like Rlyeh said howcome it needs so much CPU to run? Is it maybe all of the Windows bloat that eats up CPU time?

Such things are really exaggerated. XP uses a lot of RAM but very little CPU time on its own.... unless you're running lots of spyware or other expensive (resource-wise) software loss of performance to emulators from system processes should not be much worse than on the gp2x running stripped-down Linux, when considered in % of CPU time. Example, my machine is at < 0.5% CPU utilization with several apps running, and I can still comfortably open a stressful app and see full performance....

The real cause of most PC emulators requiring hefty system specs is that they are expected to be run on modern mid to high end PC hardware... so they always start out pretty slow. Most of them get faster... look at the Nebula Sega Model 2 emulator ... it used to be unplayable even with an AMD K8 CPU at 2.4 GHz.... now it can run at full speed in most cases with the same. That was about 2 years of development time... but some emulators just don't rely on many things that are staples in portable emulator ports-- ASM, dynamic recompilation and the like. Also they usually are more accurate/compatible like Squidge said, while most portable versions of emulators will exhibit more faults running the widest variety of games, but faster overall operation...

Classic example, compare KEGA Fusion on the same game, as PicoDrive or DrMDx on GP2X.... set 44100Hz audio, SuperHQ and OverDrive in KEGA. The audio will be orders of magnitude superior in accuracy and clarity to any GP2X MD emulator but it will require a good chunk of even a modern X86 CPU's cycles for full speed operation..... the GP2X MD emulators sustain 60 FPS in most situations with an ARM920 clock of 200 MHz but there is a dramatic reduction in accuracy....

 

[DaveC]

Well if PC-Engine could be done as "inaccurate" as MegaDrive in Picodrive I think we would have an awsome PC-Engine emu

I mean MD it is pretty much good enough even I don't mind the slight inaccuracies in MD and I don't even notice them unless I compare directly to PC ones. So if A GP2X PC-engine emu was as good as the GP2X MD emu it would be awsome and a dream come true for any GP2X owning PCEngine fan.

 

[Rivroner]

Well if PC-Engine could be done as "inaccurate" as MegaDrive in Picodrive I think we would have an awsome PC-Engine emu

I mean MD it is pretty much good enough even I don't mind the slight inaccuracies in MD and I don't even notice them unless I compare directly to PC ones. So if A GP2X PC-engine emu was as good as the GP2X MD emu it would be awsome and a dream come true for any GP2X owning PCEngine fan.

Totally agree

 

[Exophase]

Audio isn't "less accurate" on emulators like PicoDrive, it's just not all oversampled and filtered as it is on something like Kega. The Kega version is probably less accurate, even if it sounds better ;P

 

[Rivroner]

Audio isn't "less accurate" on emulators like PicoDrive, it's just not all oversampled and filtered as it is on something like Kega. The Kega version is probably less accurate, even if it sounds better ;P

Of course, the problem is that people compare with PC emulators not with the real thing.If you compare with the real Genesis the emulation in Picodrive is like perfect

 

[geise69]

Audio isn't "less accurate" on emulators like PicoDrive, it's just not all oversampled and filtered as it is on something like Kega. The Kega version is probably less accurate, even if it sounds better ;P

Of course, the problem is that people compare with PC emulators not with the real thing.If you compare with the real Genesis the emulation in Picodrive is like perfect

Yeah I have compared Picodrive to my nomad. I had both systems hooked up to my TV and if the TV out on the GP2X didn't stink I wouldn't know too much of a difference. Just a couple games with some sound glitches. I also have my TurboDuo hooked up to my TV and I'd gladly compare with any new emu that came along. I have a ton of Hu Cards. Plus I have a 128meg flash cart for it as well. So I could compare with any game. Well hopefully we'll someday see some PCEngine goodness on this handheld.

 

[DaveC]

Audio isn't "less accurate" on emulators like PicoDrive, it's just not all oversampled and filtered as it is on something like Kega. The Kega version is probably less accurate, even if it sounds better ;P

Ok that makes sense. I am happy with the way MD sounds on the GP2X.

If a PC-Engine emu on the GP2X has audio that is that good then we win Actually GP2Xengine has good sound (the best on GP2X) it includes the samples (like the laughing skull in Devil's crush, explosions in Galaga) proper white noise sound and is stereo. The others aren't as good. The HU one is mono has buzzing for white noise, and is missing samples. It has great video emulation though and has all of the color depth as the original. The other that I forget what is called has the music speed that is way off. It seems the Turbografx is hard to do on the Gp2X for some reason. Maybe it is more complex to emulate than Genesis? Sometimes weaker systems can be harder than us non-coders think they are to emulate.

 

[kfuse]

Thats true but still I just wondered what why I kept getting issues in the shooter games...like blazing lazers...in gp2xengine

soldier blade I can play with it oc'd haven't even touched raiden yet...

I dunno guess we'll have to wait and see if another one will be put out...till then just wait for craiginator.

 

[StealthBagel]

Audio isn't "less accurate" on emulators like PicoDrive, it's just not all oversampled and filtered as it is on something like Kega. The Kega version is probably less accurate, even if it sounds better ;P

No; having compared the gp2X MD emulators to the real deal, a MegaDrive model 1 system, the difference is night and day.... the biggest problem is the YM2612 emulation which is quite a tricky chip to imitate effectively. Sure for a portable solution they get the job done but with all the extra CPU time at the programmers' disposal on the new handheld I'd prefer to see it shaped up a good bit.

PC emulators can oversample the audio but even set to what you'd naturally hear from the console at 22050hz it's still not quite up to par... as for filtering; no that has nothing to do with it either. I'm not trying to say a PC emulator 'sounds better' than the real console, just better than the audio emulation on the Gp2x MD emulators. I'm comparing accuracy to the real deal. And if you grew up with a game sounding one way, when you hear the audio screwed up by an emulator it jumps right out at you. Messes up the nostalgia. Or if you are intimately familiar otherwise with how a console SHOULD sound..... all consoles with real-time audio synthesis (not pre-recorded PCM audio) have a distinctive sound to them.

Granted that there are winamp plugins that accurately imitate the MD's audio, even YM2612, very closely but they usually sound 'too perfect' because they use the PC's audio path and not the MDs, which changed some attributes of the final audio....

While nothing will ever match the real hardware it would be great if the authors/maintainers of PicoDrive/DrMDx referenced such plugins for inspiration on improving MD audio emulation.

Also while I haven't used PicoDrive extensively (I sold my GP2X when DrMDx was the bee's knees still, and PicoDrive was nowhere near as fast), aren't they still fairly primitive in a lot of areas? Like a lack of horizontal interrupt support causing mid-frame palette switches to fail; classic example being water coloration taking up the whole screen in Sonic 2/3 as soon as you touched water... there is definitely room for improvement. It's already fast, now how about more accurate?

It seems the Turbografx is hard to do on the Gp2X for some reason. Maybe it is more complex to emulate than Genesis? Sometimes weaker systems can be harder than us non-coders think they are to emulate.

The TGFX-16 a.k.a. PC engine has a much simpler audio path than the MegaDrive though it is vastly different. PCE/TGFX-16 combines the CPU with a custom sound generator whereas the MD has 3 major components; Yamaha Ym2612 for FM synthesis, a custom sound generator previously used in the Master System, based on a Texas Instruments part, that does more basic waveforms, and a DAC. There's also the 3.58 MHz Z80 coprocessor that is typically used by games for audio handling..... pretty fancy. So getting MD audio emulation just right is a pretty major task and while for example, a lot of NES or SMS emulators have gotten the audio extremely close to the real deal, no full MD emulator really has, just standalone audio players.