To all you Software Publishers . . .

[fritata]

I am writing an essay over software piracy for a class, and I have received permission to use interviews received through emails or forums.

I would use your user name to quote you, and it would be a simpl block quote in my essay.

All you have to answer is:

Do you impliment anti-piracy measures in your applications?

Do they seem to be effective?

It can be as concise as a few words.

Thank you for your time in advance.

 

[Wally]

I'm not sure this is entirely appropriate here as its mostly FOSS and community based software compiled from source.

There might be some people who work in the industry that we don't know about (just like strmnnrmn, main dev of Daedalus and how he didn't identify himself as a Media Molecule developer for a while then suddenly everything was revealed!)

I'd recommend asking in places where big name game developers might hang out such as Kokatu, Freenode IRC Server and sadly I'll mention qj.net.

Anyway my .02c as I plan on making some games in the future.

I wouldn't implement anti-piracy measures if the platform is secure and reliable. Platforms like iOS, Android, Microsoft's Xbox and Sony's Playstation platforms are seen to me as secure and constantly updated to protect the developers. 

I would think these anti-piracy measures are something that is the responsibility of the company providing the platform with the risk of potential piracy as part of the project plan. Possibly the only thing I would do is up the requirements of the OS, including the new APIs, Libraries. Giving me that little bit of security against piracy

Cheers

 

[ekianjo]

Platforms like iOS, Android, Microsoft's Xbox and Sony's Playstation platforms are seen to me as secure and constantly updated to protect the developers. 

Is this a joke ? At least for Android you forgot the Lugaru story ?  

Back to the question: Instead of wasting time implementing anti-piracy measures, it's more important to focus on the game and what drives its sales:

- having good content and a good game overall so that it can generate word of mouth

- having the "right" pricing, i.e. not too high and not too low either, depending on the kind of game you are publishing and what standards it's at. A good pricing strategy goes a long way to constrain piracy of your game. 

Otherwise, the most effective strategy to avoid piracy is to implement online modes that are only available for those who purchase the game. The server-side thingie being closed source and unavailable for third parties, you effectively prevent piracy for multiplayer based games. 

 

[Majin Wamu]

Hello, with the PC game that I have been working on I have put in ways were the program makes sure that the original computer that downloaded that game is playing the game and that it wasn't just copied onto another computer. It was something I had to implement in or else one of the investors who was helping back my game wouldn't be as interested since piracy is a big issue. This is also applied to the demo version like most demos out there. Once the trail period is over the user can no longer play the game unless they purchase the full version with is a separate program. I don't want to provide the details of how I implement these security checks publicly but if you send me a message I can go more in dept on the procedure my program goes through. It is quite complicated also it makes it nearly impossible for someone to take anything from the game or even hack it to completely modify it in their own way.

 

[skeezix]

Yes, in some of my applications I have in the past put defensive measures.

One of the more interesting measures was outside of the app -- just approach some of the bigger distribution sites, and try to cut a deal.. i) I'm cool, you're cool, try to avoid screwing me, but I'll give you guys a workable one you can distribute, but tries to beg more or is otherwise different to real release", etc. (Putting a special version out that peopel pirate, that in turn hacks their devices, is not cool.)

In-app, putting various tricks and traps for crackers can work, but also makes it more a target sometimes.. for sport. But I did some sick tricks once, that really messed up people.. ie: building a very small VM for another processor or even made-up language, and then coding some of the applciation vector-tables and such in _there_, so they could not easily just disable it; also build in protection and checks in there, so to figure out whats going on they have to figure out its a VM, and how it works, and all that, without breaking the entire app. That really took people quite awhile to sort out.

Crackers can also be very devious, and come up with astounding hacks and mods, and sometimes very easy tricks that completely wipe out very comprehensive defenses.

In the end, it wasn't really worth it, but at the time I enjoyed the back and forth

 

[Wally]

Wally, on 02 May 2014 - 1:38 PM, said: Platforms like iOS, Android, Microsoft's Xbox and Sony's Playstation platforms are seen to me as secure and constantly updated to protect the developers.    Is this a joke ? At least for Android you forgot the Lugaru story ?  

 

Haven't really paid attention to Android so maybe not Android

 

[_wb_]

I object to using the word "piracy" to describe making copies of bit strings (as opposed to sailing the seas and plundering other ships).

I think all anti-copying measures are an arms race that cannot be won, because if code is executable (or if a movie is viewable, or a song is playable, or whatever), then it can also be copied. All that can be done is making it inconvenient to be copied, which is usually done by making it inconvenient to execute/view/play as well.

 

[ekianjo]

I object to using the word "piracy" to describe making copies of bit strings (as opposed to sailing the seas and plundering other ships).

Agree. The only right term to use is "copyright infringement" . 

"Piracy, Theft, Stealing" are just wordings that the big majors want us to use, but none of them represent the factual reality that copyright infringement has nothing to do with those. 

 

[ekianjo]

All that can be done is making it inconvenient to be copied, which is usually done by making it inconvenient to execute/view/play as well.

Yeah, by adding troublesome steps that actually impact the honest buyer/user in the first place. So many times you end up with a cracked copy that actually offers a better user experience than the real stuff because of all that s**t is deactivated.  

 

[WizardStan]

At least for Android you forgot the Lugaru story

If you're referring to the group that did a recompile of the code and sold it for $1, that has nothing to do with anything that any measure of protection could have prevented. Wolfire released the code as open source but not the assets. The group that released the $1 version was within their rights to recompile and re-release the binary but they also included the assets which is where the problem came in. Wolfire released their source code in good faith and trusted that the community wouldn't abuse them and they were let down. Android could be the most locked down system in the world but it doesn't help when you just hand over the keys to your car on the promise that they won't drive it off a cliff.This isn't the first instance, there's a long history of coders having their trust taken advantage of when they release their code open source. Next time they don't release their code open source. This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[ekianjo]

The group that released the $1 version was within their rights to recompile and re-release the binary but they also included the assets which is where the problem came in.

The problem is that Google did not react very fast to take the copies out. Assets were infriged. So where is the protection offered by the Play Store ? And what about the money lost on the way ? 

I was reacting to the fact that the OP said these stores are secure... secure like where, when one can distributed assets they do not own and make money out of it ??

 

[butler]

Not sure if this is what you want, but you might want to look at early protection systems to piracy for computers like the ZX Spectrum, NES, Amiga. Early computer wise, it became popular to use gimmicks originally, like books with codes and stories to protect against piracy, as they were unlikely to copy those alongside the cassettes. Early consoles used special firmware ( i think, im not up to speed with jargon ) to prevent people publishing illegally on their platforms, such as Activison on Atari's, and iirc Codemasters to Nintendo. It could help seeing how piracy prevention developed with new technology, as the internet and the availability of cheap media has had a profound effect.

I would be curious which systems your thinking of, since Computers and Consoles have usually been dealt with diferently, though i know they are coming more and more into the line of DRM (which i hate).

<snip>

I was reacting to the fact that the OP said these stores are secure... secure like where, when one can distributed assets they do not own and make money out of it ??

The problem is virtual assets, like virtual currencies, are most secure and safe when isolated from the internet. Looking at most small MMOs, for example, I discovered that most of their clients are open source, with a creative commons on the artwork and IP. This is usually done to try and distract those who would hack the clients into developing them instead, saving the company money rather than costing them. Usually someone won't sue you for infringing on copyright unless it's making you a lot of money, because it won't pay off and is a complicated sore.

<snip 

Next time they don't release their code open source. This is why we can't have nice things.

 Usually the 1% screw over the 99%.

 

[elwing]

<snip>

I was reacting to the fact that the OP said these stores are secure... secure like where, when one can distributed assets they do not own and make money out of it ??

The problem is virtual assets, like virtual currencies, are most secure and safe when isolated from the internet. Looking at most small MMOs, for example, I discovered that most of their clients are open source, with a creative commons on the artwork and IP. This is usually done to try and distract those who would hack the clients into developing them instead, saving the company money rather than costing them. Usually someone won't sue you for infringing on copyright unless it's making you a lot of money, because it won't pay off and is a complicated sore.

the problem ekianjo speak about was not the IP theft but just the fact that the store allowed the sales for a quite long time before reacting to wolfram's request to block this clone...

 

[butler]

Ok, misread. Google hasn't exactly been very speedy or willing to protect or remove illegal content from what I've seen.

 

[Binky]

I've never published any software to speak of, but I do agree with some of the above posters:

Making a copy of a work without the author's permission is not theft and isn't stealing. Nor is it maritime robbery-with-violence. It does not deprive the author of any goods or physical assets.

Making a copy of a work without the author's permission is copyright infringement, and should be referred to as such.

 

[WizardStan]

The problem is that Google did not react very fast to take the copies out. Assets were infriged. So where is the protection offered by the Play Store ? And what about the money lost on the way ?

And what does any of that have to do with DRM in this context? The only way they could have prevented it was by implementing their own DRM and encrypting the assets, and then not releasing that part of the code when they made the game open source which would have defeated the purpose of releasing it open source in the first place.

I was reacting to the fact that the OP said these stores are secure... secure like where, when one can distributed assets they do not own and make money out of it ??

No, secure like you can't just download content you haven't paid for, ostensibly the very essence of DRM. It's pretty obvious Wally was talking about hackers breaking locks and encryption to pirate things within the system, not about people who upload stolen merchandise.Again, Google could have the most secure store in the world with absolutely no possibility to download and run YOUR game without purchasing it, but if you've given another person the ability to just build it from source there is nothing any of that security can do to prevent them from then uploading it as well.

 

[ekianjo]

Again, Google could have the most secure store in the world with absolutely no possibility to download and run YOUR game without purchasing it, but if you've given another person the ability to just build it from source there is nothing any of that security can do to prevent them from then uploading it as well.

Yeah, but Google should have a way for the copyright owner to clearly protect themselves from this kind of behavior. You know, like arbitration like what you have on Youtube when you can claim that someone is using your creation and preemptively prevent access to that kind of content until matters are settled. Protection is not JUST about DRM you know, it's also about making sure people can't just copy and profit from your stuff without you allowing it. And that has nothing to do with you enabling it to build it from source. Assets still remain under your copyright in any case, and there's easy way to check if assets are being duplicated (hashes and so on) while being linked to a different account.

 

[WizardStan]

Protection is not JUST about DRM you know

In general, yes, but both rand and Wally are clearly talking about protection from piracy, specifically the prevention of the general public from downloading illegal copies of your application. The Lugaru story does not disprove what Wally was saying.

 

[crow_riot]

@rand: if i'll find some more time the next days i'll write some lines, too. any timeframe until you need it?

 

[Ziz]

Do you impliment anti-piracy measures in your applications?

I make free Software, so no.

Do they seem to be effective?

Of course is free software effective!