GP2X The Penguin Must Die!

[iignotus]

Can you still use SDL with this HH? I'd hate to be learning this for no damn reason.

​

Not unless someone writes a library interface. I'd say just boot into the Linux mode if you want to play some SDL stuff.

EDIT -- That's not to say that there's anything stopping a good dev from making a faster, smaller, more optimised version of linux that can include all of these "HH" features as well as SDL, just don't expect that particular option for some time

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, we have libsdl for the GP32, I can see no reason why nobody could port this to the gp2x HH

 

[Ravnos]

Well, we have libsdl for the GP32, I can see no reason why nobody could port this to the gp2x HH

​

I hope so. From what I've learned of it so far, I really like it. It also has the advantages of being very well documented and cross-platform.

 

[torpor]

man .. when you say "Linux", what, exactly, do you mean? coz linux is just a kernel.

What you do with it, and what you run on it, ISN'T LINUX in any sense other than "its running on a linux system" ..

trying to discount the 'linux OS' choice as something being 'invalid or not worth the effort' is totally, and utterly, admitting ones own ingenuity. if you have to even ask the question 'why linux' on this device, then you really don't know what 'linux' means ..

duh.

 

[DaveC]

Also, processor speed can be modified via HH, 100Mhz, 200Mhz & 266Mhz modes have been tested.

266MHz overclocked. Winner.

​

We would be alot closer to perfect SNES at 266 MHz probably. Although we would also have to be closer to the mains because at that speed the batteries will last about 20 minutes.

We need to design a battery pack that plugs into the adaptor port maybe to get more power, that would be nice.

 

[Hanz™]

Also, processor speed can be modified via HH, 100Mhz, 200Mhz & 266Mhz modes have been tested.

266MHz overclocked. Winner.

​

We would be alot closer to perfect SNES at 266 MHz probably. Although we would also have to be closer to the mains because at that speed the batteries will last about 20 minutes.

We need to design a battery pack that plugs into the adaptor port maybe to get more power, that would be nice.

​

Really 20 minutes, I would like to see the results for these indepth tests you have been doing oh great DaveC.

ho hum. HH yay!!!

 

[reaper79]

man .. when you say "Linux", what, exactly, do you mean? coz linux is just a kernel.

What you do with it, and what you run on it, ISN'T LINUX in any sense other than "its running on a linux system" ..

trying to discount the 'linux OS' choice as something being 'invalid or not worth the effort' is totally, and utterly, admitting ones own ingenuity. if you have to even ask the question 'why linux' on this device, then you really don't know what 'linux' means ..

duh.

​

Wow, that sounds almost religious. Imagine it this way:

"man .. when you say "religion", what, exactly, do you mean? coz a religion is just an idea.

What you do with it, and how you live your life, ISN'T religion in any sense other than "its just a system of morals" ..

trying to discount the 'religious' choice as something being 'invalid or not worth the effort' is totally, and utterly, admitting ones own lack of faith. if you have to even ask the question 'why god' in this world, then you really don't know what 'spirituality' means ..

duh."

Kinda creepy. :unsure:

 

[DJWillis]

HH mode is starting to look slick, give it some time to mature .

Linux does give you a list of benefits but also a long list of problems for something such as this console. I for one love the raw hardware modes as you can sidestep Linux for speed and hardware bashing pleasure or go back to Linux if you need it (GPH apps, quick SDL ports etc.).

Believe me when I say that the raw (ok, HH) mode and Linux switch will be as user friendly as possible and not touch the GPH Linux bits. A LOT of work is going into making it all as slick as possible. A few cool launchers are even being worked on .

 

[Radek]

Also, processor speed can be modified via HH, 100Mhz, 200Mhz & 266Mhz modes have been tested.

266MHz overclocked. Winner.

​

Is it overclocked to 266Mhz, or is it currently underclocked??

​

In the the docs the "266MHz" is listed just as one of the "powermodes" so I would say it's not an overclock.

 

[torpor]

Wow, that sounds almost religious. Imagine it this way:

its a good thing that word means something different to me than it does you, or else we'd both be in a lot of trouble.

but anyway, the point is, whatever .. quit 'picking on' linux, as if its a bad thing linux is in the gpx32. its a darn good thing, really. there are vast, gargantuan bits of incredibly useful software, which can now be used to make quality entertainment software on a very personal device.

thats a good thing. its an open, honest, public thing. expect big and interesting hacks in this realm, as more and more 'personally interested' programmers get into the groove of doing nice things with this bit of hardware.

the fact that it runs linux means there is a new video game market made of 'competent anyones' who want to hack code on their toys ..

 

[DaveC]

i would say we should have both. a boot option for linux and for a firmware (like on the gp32).
i really dont want to miss the media features of the gp2x, it could take long until someone get the custom video decode hardware running in a homebrew player.

​

Strange you should say that, as that's exactly how it's been planned by certain devs. You switch on the machine, and can choose between Linux or Hardcore Homebrew(HH)

File format for HH has already been through many changes, and is about ready, SD drivers are looking good (2764KB/sec - much faster than Linux's driver), LCD driver works, etc...

Also, processor speed can be modified via HH, 100Mhz, 200Mhz & 266Mhz modes have been tested.

+ lots more in the works.

UAE will be a HH exclusive, and will support several cpu speed selections.

​

Will there be some standard to this "HH" firmware? I hope so otherwise it will get confusing.

Imagine a game/emu comming out but you have Woogal's fw flashed but the app will only run with Squidges fw. so now everytime you want to run that app you need to flash to Squidges FW and vise versa. That could be a real pain and cause bad flashes, time wasted, wearing out of flash ROM etc.

I think it is very important that we have ONE standard for firmware that will run ALL of the HH software. Any changes would just be GUI differences but the low level stuff that runs the app should be a standard. Any low level updates would happen across all variations.

 

[reaper79]

Linux is a mixed blessing for this console. It will help and it will hinder. It's good to hear that a lot of work is going into making it as seamless as possible between the two, that is Linux and "HH". I personally reserve judgement until the system get delievered and we see how everything officially works with all the apps that will be released.

its a good thing that word means something different to me than it does you, or else we'd both be in a lot of trouble.

​

So you presume what something means to others... tell me, what kind of trouble would we both be in? :rolleyes:

 

[bufalo_1973]

How is it better to use someones API than Linux ones? I think having Linux "on your way" helps more than stops you from doing stuff. Look at how long has been needed to port Quake to the GP2X. I ask you (the ones that doesn't want Linux) have you programmed in DOS? It was fast, ok, but much harder than using a common API. And think about this: If Linux is the OS then all games made now and in the future can be ported almost on the fly. And you just need a Linux PC/Mac/whatever to make a game and try if it works. You don't need to emulate a GP2X on your computer.

And if you think something is slow/bulky/... you have the code. You can change it (please, do it). And maybe you don't do but someone else does it and you have it faster/lighter/... at no cost.

 

[EvilDragon]

Will there be some standard to this "HH" firmware? I hope so otherwise it will get confusing.

That's what most of the devs with a devboard (Squidge, DJWillis, Rlyeh, etc.) have been working on the last months:
First defining Standards, then starting to code.

It WILL have standards, and it's already quite advanced
The best that could happen to the gp2x

 

[torpor]

So you presume what something means to others... tell me, what kind of trouble would we both be in?

ermm .. why bother. for me, linux isn't a religion, its a darned fine bit of public technology that can be used to do wonderful things.

i don't, really, see how it will 'hinder' development to have linux on the gpx32 ..

 

[Minkoff]

If we underclock to 100MHz, will we get significantly better power usage? And will it be much worse at 266MHz? Or is the screen the most power-hungry part?

 

[Cyclops]

I am beginning to find these discussions a little strange. I should point out I use linux out of fairness. I think its stange that do many users have a comment at all about linux(DaveC) as they have little knowledge of it, and people have misconception of linux from both linux and windows users.

If we have linux for those who want it and access to the hardware for those who dont whats the issue?

Most uses will never know the difference, and should never know the difference, becuase its the programs/games/apps that should matter.

Why "The Penguin Must Die!" not "HH yay!!!" for this thread I have no idea.

On a side note I wonder if this competition is going to be a great thing, or an awful thing. I do know the gp2x is in for some exiting times.

 

[DJWillis]

i don't, really, see how it will 'hinder' development to have linux on the gpx32 ..

​

Nobody said it will. Linux on the GP2X is fine in its place but it shields you from the hardware to facilitate interoperability and portability. That is a very good thing in most environments and well help the GP2X get off to a really flying start. Look at the 1st generation of stuff coming out already.

Linux on the GP2X has a certain level of abstraction from the hardware that can become a frustration for some types of development (i.e. more demanding low level stuff, very speed sensitive stuff, ease of using the 2nd core etc.), esp for developers coming from the GP32 scene where if you wanted something to hit the hardware you just did it as there was not and OS to say no .

Nothing that is being worked on is there to ‘replace’ Linux but rather to offer the raw hardware as a choice (and after all, open-source is all about choice). As EvilDragon said a lot of work has gone into making one viable standard way to get at the raw hardware and the Linux way for those that do not with to make use of it.

Raw hardware modes will never force you to take Linux off your GP2X but rather give you more choice as a user of developer to use what suits you. It also opens more avenues to do weird and wonderful things and that is always good .

 

[Squidge]

If we underclock to 100MHz, will we get significantly better power usage? And will it be much worse at 266MHz? Or is the screen the most power-hungry part?

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Only the Korean's can tell you that at the moment. Not of the dev's have gp2x's capable of accepting batteries (well, you can place batteries in them, but there's no connections to them).

 

[gp2brew]

Wow, that sounds almost religious. Imagine it this way:

its a good thing that word means something different to me than it does you, or else we'd both be in a lot of trouble.

but anyway, the point is, whatever .. quit 'picking on' linux, as if its a bad thing linux is in the gpx32. its a darn good thing, really. there are vast, gargantuan bits of incredibly useful software, which can now be used to make quality entertainment software on a very personal device.

thats a good thing. its an open, honest, public thing. expect big and interesting hacks in this realm, as more and more 'personally interested' programmers get into the groove of doing nice things with this bit of hardware.

the fact that it runs linux means there is a new video game market made of 'competent anyones' who want to hack code on their toys ..

​

Ok, you obviously just skimmed my original post and jumped to making assumptions.

I didn't deny that there were advantages to Linux, my point and the point of this whole thread is that the embedded Linux on the GP2X creates a lot of overhead that does actually defeat the purpose of having such a powerful gadget unless you're happy with a system that is not a lot more powerful than the GP32 directly hitting the hardware.

Again, GP2X Linux at the moment is little more than a bloated launcher that looks cool and has potential for Linux geeks to port stuff to it, without peripherals I imagine that most apps will have a higher novelty value than anything.

To say that you can't see why GP2X would be better off without Linux for development of software that hits the hardware just shows that you haven't thought this through, or perhaps you're one of those Linux zealots. Like it or not, that kind of devotion is semi-religious.

BTW, it's GP2X. GP2X. There, now I really feel like a regular poster here I have mastered the art of the pedantic. <ducks>

Also I'm sure SDL libs will be created for the HH mode, it's odd to see some people under the impression that Linux is needed to use it with the years of SDL dev on the GP32. Squidge and co, HH is sounding very cool indeed