The Future of Pyra's CPU


oskda

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Different people have different expectations when it comes to qualifying a GUI with the word 'real'.

I think I didn't explain it correctly. When I write GUI I refer to desktop GUI, classical GUI, the GUI invented at Xerox (used in Alto, Smalltalk, etc) and later copied by Apple/MS Windows, i.e. a GUI with REAL windows you can resize/overlap/etc, and other elements.

A touch smartphone includes a post-WIN GUI, an interface totally different from desktop GUI.

For example you can have various apps on screen on same cases but without the freedom and possibilities you have in a desktop GUI with its windowing system.
 

Letalis Sonus

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I think the term you're searching for is desktop environment. GUI usually refers to a single program, not the environment it is running within.
 

oskda

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Dunno what you've done to your phone, but usally they have a real GUI. Shitty if you expect more than a toddler would, but still very real and very goo(f)y.

I have just explained to other user: when I said GUI I refer to desktop GUI, a GUI with full windows interface, usually used with a mouse.

Post-WIMP GUIs used in modern touch interface smartphones are totally different.

PD: I use the term GUI withoutbother addons to refer to desktop (WIMP) GUI because itvwas used so during decades (post-WIMP GUIs are much later design).
 

oskda

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I think the term you're searching for is desktop environment. GUI usually refers to a single program, not the environment it is running within.

GUI of a desktop environment, or desktop GUI. Obviously that GUI is used with a mouse/etc, underlying SO/etc.
 

God Ginrai

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Guys, a GUI is anything that provides visuals to a program or action. Stop this nonsense about "real GUIs" or "desktop GUIs" and use specific terms for what you are discussing. If you are wanting windows, then say that you want windows. (or a windowing system, or a window manager) There's no point here in arguing over a vague term like GUI that can be applied to pretty much anything.

-God Ginrai
 

MrConfusion

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Do I recall completely wrong when I seem to recall that the Pandora was of loose relation to the Beagleboard?
Well, now there's this: https://www.seeedstudio.com/blog/20...-single-board-computer-designed-to-run-linux/

Unfortunately, it has a SOC clearly meant for non-gaming, but I'd personally find it quite cool... "if only, but then again maybe not", because for the Pyra there's so many wasted transistors in that SOC and also due to the wasted ones a glaring omission (though there could be Hope with regards to that):
"One obvious item missing from the specifications is a GPU, and I was told while the first batch scheduled in March will be GPU less, but the next batch – slated to be manufactured in September – will come with an Imagination Technologies GPU." (https://www.cnx-software.com/2021/0...are-risc-v-linux-sbc-targets-ai-applications/)

(Also: Imagination... *sigh*... so it would realistically be supported with a current kernel for a couple of years and then it's obsolete...)

Well obviously another issue would be the ISA would be different then, but I would not mind that personally.
But, again, personally with the Pandora, I only ever used the GPU features a couple of times: none of the software I was interested in actually used it so it was just "for testing". The huge majority of the emulation stuff simply used the framebuffer directly via SDL and in my own environment I actually just let things draw stuff on top of X!

Well, anyways, it would be kind of nice to have another hobbyist-friendly platform with the same chip, I think that would be even more important that a super-hyper-ultra-fast CPU.
 

Phlyra

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"One obvious item missing from the specifications is a GPU, and I was told while the first batch scheduled in March will be GPU less, but the next batch – slated to be manufactured in September – will come with an Imagination Technologies GPU." (https://www.cnx-software.com/2021/0...are-risc-v-linux-sbc-targets-ai-applications/)

(Also: Imagination... *sigh*... so it would realistically be supported with a current kernel for a couple of years and then it's obsolete...)
Why’s that? Does Imagination only support their chips for two years per generation?

I wonder whether this kills the PicoRio?
 

hns

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Why’s that? Does Imagination only support their chips for two years per generation?
Imagination does not provide chips, they provide chip (GPU) designs to others who make chips. And those provide some SoC-support-package with some glued together kernel driver, sometimes with source code. The issue is that we as the open source community therefore have no access to documentation to maintain kernel drivers. This was already the case with the OMAP processors and others (Intel GMA500, GMA3600, Ingenic jz4780, some Samsung and Allwinner SoC). There is a project which tries to improve this situation but it is more challenging than Mount Everest: https://github.com/openpvrsgx-devgroup/linux_openpvrsgx/wiki
 
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MrConfusion

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I wonder whether this kills the PicoRio?
Well... at least they seem to have a plan:
"Imagination is also creating a new open-source GPU driver to provide a complete, up-streamed open-source kernel and user-mode driver stack to support Vulkan® and OpenGL® ES within the Mesa framework. It will be openly developed with intermediate milestones visible to the open-source community and a complete open-source Linux driver will be delivered by Q2 2022. Imagination will work with RIOS to run the open-source GPU driver on the PicoRio open-source platform." (https://riscv.org/blog/2020/11/picorio-the-raspberry-pi-like-small-board-computer-for-risc-v/)

I hope that works out, but of course one is left wondering what the coverage of such a plan is: will this apply to all designs and implementations or just some of them? I've become hideously skeptical (more than I'd want to be) of the "openness of stuff" recently. But one should not complain: a single well documented and supported implementation is better than none I guess.

Imagination (to my knowledge) never even gave any promises about the openness of the design and the implementers have definitely done their merry best to make the most mess achievable of all things related to openness :-(.

Even with RiscV the Hype has constantly been "because it is an open design, everything's going to be fine". But what does an open design benefit us if the implementations based on them are more closely guarded secrets than ever and co-operation between the end users and the implementers is nonexistent (unless you want to know where to stick the powercord, you'll get an answer to that from the support email in a matter of minutes so you know someone is reading it).

To my knowledge there's nothing "viral" about the openness of RiscV, so the pessimist me fails to see how things would change: we get a new ISA with even more obscure extensions, bootloaders, toolchains. Yay. As if having these from the ARM camp wasn't enough.

I'm sorry for spewing such pessimism, I'll just shut up and go back to work now...
 

matzesu

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Well, as im now a Pyra User on Daylie base (at least when im not too lazy), i notice that even the "Lame" Omap 5 makes this thing noticable warm, and this is just 2 x 1,4 ghz, and im only in a bit of Internet and Office usecase, not that many games yet..
So if whe want a better CPU Board, whe need something that cools the System a lot better, maybe the CPU Board whit Connectors so you can put a Modified Bottompart on whit a Active Van? This would make the Pyra thicker..

Or a faster CPU who dont make that much heat..
 

Djoga'Ro

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@MrConfusion I hear you. On the laptop I've been given to work on I installed Devuan and I don't get any sound devices. Learned so far that Sound Open Firmware stuff is in order. But, I also read most devices that support sof only accept signed fw. WTF
Stupid shit like this makes me depressive. Obstacles intentionally put in place by fellow humans. What a bunch of assholes. They really need to work on their colaboration skills.
 
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