The Final Revision

Discussion in 'Pyra News' started by EvilDragon, Jul 22, 2018.

  1. WizardStan

    WizardStan Mega GP Mania

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    I don't think he was ever against it, so much as it didn't even exist when the Pyra was in initial design phase, and through most of R&D. USB-C has only recently started taking the lead as the standard. To change the board now, after all the work that's gone into it, would add so much overhead that it wouldn't make any sense whatsoever. MicroUSB isn't going away anytime soon; heck, miniUSB is still around! So there's nothing to worry about. One day, 10, 15 years down the road there'll be a USB-D or whatever that ED can start looking into for the Pyra-2. If you want to wait that long go right ahead.
     
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  2. AVahne

    AVahne Handheld-obsessed

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    He has said before that a USB port would be too big to fit in the Pyra. He likely was referring to the case and back then when the Pyra was still not very close to completion (but enough that a lot of work was already done) the thought of redoing the case and main board at that time would be ludicrous.
    Again, He Has Said That He's Considering A Mainboard Revision With USB C. He also said that it wouldn't be a massive undertaking.
    Mini USB is still around, but barely anything uses it anymore. Barely anything uses FULL SIZED USB B. It's a legacy port, and Micro USB will reach that fate soon enough. Of course it'll still be around, it'll just be seen less and less as devices get replaced by newer ones that use USB C. I support the idea of him keeping one of the TWO micro USB ports, while turning one of them into a USB-C port would give people more options.

    If he thinks that he won't ever do it, he wouldn't mention it or he would that he wouldn't ever do it. Probably.

    OK honestly here, normally I'm sure you guys are pretty chill, at least on these boards. But it feels like you're violently allergic to even the mention of USB C or a future existence of a USB C Pyra. I am aware USB C has plenty of issues, but that shouldn't stop the Pyra from getting one if it's possible.
    I'm not saying he should be starting over. USB C being added would be a mainboard revision down the line. He has said that he could do it.
    If he were to say later on that USB C is off the cards and that he won't have the time or drive to do it, then I'll simply buy a Pyra once Link gets them up on his store (and after I've put aside enough money). But he said he could do it, and if he can then I'll be willing to wait. I've waited this long for the Pyra already. What's wrong with wanting a Pyra that has USB C if the creator himself has expressed interest in doing so?

    Sigh, and with that I bid thee all a calm and refreshing good night. Or morning, if that's what you're experiencing right now.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  3. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    I've a recently bought USB SATA HD caddy that has a USB3.1 type-B connector. I too thought for a while that is was a dead connector, but it seems that for that class of things at least it's still used.
     
  4. Swordfish II

    Swordfish II Very Active Member

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    Usb c literally does nothing. You want usb 3.0, it's already on the pyra. So why usb c? Aside from "waaaaa i want it?"
     
  5. Silent-Hunter

    Silent-Hunter Advanced Member

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    I think they might want the higher data speeds USB-C has. But if the SoC doesn't support that it won't have it anyway. Could theoretically have higher charging rate, but would probably need to replace the Palmas chip for that.
     
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  6. Swordfish II

    Swordfish II Very Active Member

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    Data speeds are mostly due to protocal no? As you saidthe connector is simply that. Fast charging and everything else requires hardware.
     
  7. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    Technically, as far as I've read, proper USB-C requires USB 3.2, which is four times faster than USB 3.0 at max rate at least. But from what I hear, USB-C sockets often don't actually have a USB 3.2 capable chip behind them, so technically are some kind of frankensteinian hybrid of USB-C and something older.

    Edit: I misread; USB-C full-featured requires USB 3.2, but plain USB-C can be anything. That's probably where the interopability nightmare came from - if it supports USB 2.0 but none of the USB Power delivery specs, a charger that expects USB Power Delivery will try to talk to it, probably while still pumping out the old 20V or what have you it was last used at, and the non-power delivery device will just have a resistor across some lines but nothing stopping 20V from frying the charge circuitry which only ever expects 5V.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
  8. Grench

    Grench Forum Addict!

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    To summarize, there is exactly zero benefit to forcing a USB C connector into the Pyra. Any perceived benefit is wholy cosmetic.
     
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  9. CommanderB

    CommanderB Member

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    Although the USB C might be a physically better port, I am pretty sure that it has limited real advantages for the user. I would recommend all not to wait for a future upgrade since the Pyra is niche device and ED could use as much orders as possible for the first version.

    Honestly, I wish that ED has not made the USB C hint. See the Osborne effect :(

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  10. Kippykip

    Kippykip BFG 9000

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    I have only 1 short USB-C connector and never seen one in stores but I have a whole box of micro-usb and a handful of micro-usb 3.0 cables.
     
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  11. Djoga'Ro

    Djoga'Ro moonstruck

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    Isn't it, that USB-C Ports are a metal cup, that per standard needs to be screwed to the device's casing? And isn't it, that micro USB ports have a tendency to break?
     
  12. CommanderB

    CommanderB Member

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    I do not know, how it is with the USB C ports but with micro USB it depends on the Quality of the part. The ones which are going to be used in the Pyra have metal "brackets" which are mounted in the PCB. So these should be pretty durable.

    Although on the other hand the full size USB port broke off on my Pandora. So I guess that there is no 100% perfect solution anyway

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  13. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    Yeah, I think a lot of phones and things use pure SMD microSD ports which are basically only held on with the solder. The Pyra ones I think ED said will be thru-hole (at least for the shield, I think I heard him say) which should foul the PCB itself before coming away.

    I'm impressed if you broke the USB-A port off your Pandora - I've never seen one of those come off anything. Did you drop it with something hefty hanging out of the back, perhaps?
     
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  14. CommanderB

    CommanderB Member

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    No, it broke off because of the pressure the carry case was exerting on the Wi-Fi stick in that port (it was a nano stick, so I thought it was OK to let it stick in the port) Maybe the USB port was not soldered correctly on my unit.

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  15. Haraldur

    Haraldur Very Active Member

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    I did a little reading about USB-C, which I have not come across before, and it seems that in a future revision USB-C may be able to replace the microHDMI port as well with so-called HDMI Alt Mode: https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/HDMIAltModeUSBTypeC.aspx

    I find this interesting, though I do not fully understand it. In 10 years' time will there be one universal connector (and one universal cable) for external storage, audio, video and input devices?
     
  16. ClockworkCoder

    ClockworkCoder Chaotic Neutral

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    I imagine in ten years' time there may not be the need for cables. In 30 years people will be lamenting about the "good old days" when we used to use them.
     
  17. WizardStan

    WizardStan Mega GP Mania

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    No. If it were possible to create one universal connector, USB (the Universal Serial Bus) would've been it.
    [​IMG]
     
  18. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    I'm not sure that follows. The key word is 'Serial' - it's a replacement for your serial port. It happens also to be good enough for connecting printers and storage, but until recent revisions, SATA was a better connection for your hard discs and compatibles, but that's just evolution of the original concept. It still needs to go a way until we give up all of other specialised connectors, especially inside the computer.
     
  19. WizardStan

    WizardStan Mega GP Mania

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    The point I was going for was that if we (and by we I mean computer and electronics engineers who I am not one of) can't universally get behind and help improve a standard with the stated goal of being a universal interface then what hope is there of such a universal standard evolving naturally? None, I say: there will always be the competition, the firewires, the thunderbolts, that do things different because the standard hasn't caught up yet and they are impatient or because they actively refuse to join the universal standard.
     
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  20. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    Yes, that's fair enough. Although even though I'm a professional computer engineer who dabbles in electronics, I'm not sure how I can help advance it. It seems to be moving on quite happily by itself though from what I can see.

    I was surprised just now when I looked and saw that many companies are selling USB3.0 to 1080p HDMI adaptors. Assuming they mean 32bpp 1920x1080, I make that to be about 8MB per frame, or about 475MB per second for uncompressed 60fps video, which if I remember rightly is a little beyond USB 3.0 (which I recall tops out at a practical 400MBps) but should be doable with USB 3.1 fine. The fact these claim USB 3.0 compatibility suggests to me that they're using some (probably proprietary) compression (that probably won't work on Linux) - or perhaps top out at 30fps.
     

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