The average consumer

[birdswithskirts]

You love commas, don't you, mcrobit?

and thank g.d you did learn because you are a big time value here.


However, not everyone wants to plunk 500 plus on something to LEARN. Unfortunately there are people who buy this device not realizing how much effort there potentially is to achieve the maximal experience. They might take a stab at it then put it up for sale,which I have seen as reasons for selling.


Yes ignorance is no excuse but that is human nature at times. It certainly has become more user friendly since the get go.


Really I think this is a great machine for what it is but a bit too esoteric for the average person. And i think that is the bottom line... meaning...who is the target audience for this? and how much does this company need to sell to make a profit?


Not everyone has the mental capacity or time to put into this machine as much as you did.


I enjoy this device but I went through h.ll and back to get whatever I could out of it. It still scares the bejesus out of me at times but for me no regrets. I am far from a dev. Just an avid retro gamer who contributes at times.


I still cannot figure out dosbox to save my arse in a fire...oh well.

I dunno, I didn't put that much effort into learning how to use the Pandora at this point. I get that you have trouble using DOSBox, but the version on the Repo (DOSBox EX) is much simplified compared to the normal DOSBox (i.e. what you would use on a PC), because it both automatically "mounts" a drive (D containing all devices (/media) and includes a visual UI (I'm pretty sure there's a more specific term, maybe it's just GUI). You normally have to first mount a C drive, then navigate to the directory with the command line, then type the name of the executable or batch file. DOSBox EX's UI means you can do it visually (though it's still not as simple as Windows).


(EDIT: I just looked at that topic again... you need to rename the files to numbers now?! What's that for?!)


I can't think of anything on the Pandora more complicated than DOSBox or even as complicated. It wasn't particularly obvious to me that L+Start opens the menu in gpFCE-GP2X, but a quick look at the docs helped me there. The OS itself isn't difficult to understand at all; granted, I was already familiar with Linux and even somewhat familiar with XFCE, but it really is no more complicated than Windows. It's just different. And, well, better, but that's for another topic.

i am overwhelmed with dosbox and gave up on it long ago. I still have the emulator and the roms in the proper place but I feel like I could not get laid in a whorehouse with a fistful of dollars when I mess with dosbox.


Most certainly, this topic is not just about my emulator failures.

 

[FaeMinx]

i am overwhelmed with dosbox and gave up on it long ago. I still have the emulator and the roms in the proper place but I feel like I could not get laid in a whorehouse with a fistful of dollars when I mess with dosbox.


Most certainly, this topic is not just about my emulator failures.

Dos is a different kettle of fish. The idea, I suppose, is that people use their Pandoras to emulate systems they grew up with and love... and still have the software for.


If you've never used dos, and are not technically minded enough to put yourself in the the shoes of someone from the era that *only* had dos to work with... or not technically minded enough to... oh forget it!


You talk about putting the 'roms' in the right place...!!! dosbox and 'dos' doesn't work with 'roms' ... I haven't worked much with EX but with dos you have to have a complete install... i.e. You install the game, then you copy the installation folder into the directory that dos (or dosbox) recognizes as your designated C: drive... I *hope* you aren't just plonking the zips in there and expecting them to run???


And in referance to "who is the target audience for this?"... Hak... you were never the target audience. It's amazing how much you are getting out of the device and how much you've achieved, but I don't think it's realistic to demand that the Pandora be made 'pick up and play' to appease the people who bought it thinking it was a gaming handheld with a keyboard.


I suppose I'm being rather 'high-minded' as you put it... but I AM an extremely opinionated person... and I utterly *detest* the trend technology and human society in general is taking... which is to spoon feed everything on the premise that 'lowest COMMON denominator' is the standard. - They only do that because they want the largest possible target audience.


The Pandora wasn't created with profit as it's priority... it was created as an ANSWER to all the devices that were created with profit as a priority and that subsequently didn't cater to all of us that DON'T want to be spoon fed.


After all, there is no spoon. o.o

 

[sandwhich]

Well spoken notaz and foxblock. Thanks to you

 

[Link]

I like to think of myself as somewhat of an average consumer regarding the Pandora. I haven't tried DOS Box yet, and may wait until all the kinks are worked out. Part of me wishes I had kept some of the software I bought directly from the developers themselves (Scorched Earth), or found/bought along the way (Rogue, Mech Warrior, Tetris, Wasteland, etc). I did play a lot of games back in those days, but nothing that really used a joystick or DPad. So to me, these games aren't a priority for the Pandora.


I worked with Linux the first time back in 2005, altough my 1st exposure to Unix was way back in 1993, it was limited, email was new and fun as was a new command line differing from MS-DOS. I started my PC years with MS DOS 3.0 and quickly moved to 3.3, then Windows came out and pretty much sucked but looked nice. There were years I worked as a technician on PCs, upgrades, hardware swaps, hard drive crashes, etc. Spent time assisting a network admin when I was at Penn State on a VA work study but had to quit because my side business (Ebay) was demanding too much of my time.


2003-2006 I worked off an on at Network Solutions learning the ins and outs of domain names, web, email, and the rest. By the end of 2006, after dealing with a family emergency, I decided the healthier place for me to be was in the water, not in an office. 2007 I started doing whitewater videography, editing my Sony shot videos on a MAC, mixing with a minidisc for audio, and recording to DVD on the fly.


I realized during this process how Windows could never handle editing of this sort, not on a normal machine. Late 2007 I moved in with some room mates who had a plush MAC while iPhone had just taken hold. I was unaware of this community until I bought my iPhone in Feb 2008, which was basically my only computer until Dec 2009. I spent days researching how to hack my iPhone without bricking it, and then when I finally was able to play NES on it, it sucked. That's how I found the GP32X community and the Pandora.


In 2010 I decided to try an Android and thought it sucked compared to what I could do on my hacked iPhone. The fact that Verizon wanted me to pay extra to be able to tether the device was disheartening. Apple/AT&T did want money for this too, but I kept my data usage limited when I was tethering my hacked iPhone.


Regarding my Android phone, the battery life sucked, transferring music, photos, video was a task in itself. It looked cool and had some bells and whistles the iPhone didn't, but I never rooted it because I never needed it, compared to jailbreaking and using Cydia on the iPhone.


When I received my Pandora in 2010, it was all new to me, Linux, XFCE, mini-menu. Over the last 20 months, I used command line once, to give a readout of my 64GB Pretec SDXC card stats. I've pretty much installed every hotfix and patch that was avaialbe OS wise. I never had a Commodore Amiga, but even managed to get that working. I primarily exclusively use XFCE as I just find mini-menu frustrating tabbing through. Rarely, almost never, do I play touchscreen games on the Pandora. My primary means of naviagting XFCE are the Pandora button to open the start menu, then the D-Pad and enter to navigate and launch software.


I've always found this community to be helpful in so many ways over the past (nearly) 4 years. Sure we might jump on some noobies from time to time, or pepole trolling around trying to start flame wars, but its the internets and sometimes you have to learn to learn.


Regarding the developers and coders around here, I look up to them and competition has given the community some great games (Wars: Commando and Greyout). With 2800 Pandora's in existence and over 400 different applications to choose from, the community is off to a solid start software and OS wise for how many times we've been screwed by production issues.


In 2008, Android was just a newbie too, its only in the last two years has it proven its worth in the phone/tablet market. It's acceptance by the mainstream is similar to the 90-10 regarding PC-MAC ratio in the world. Just because 9 phones out of 10 being sold are Android doesn't mean we need to buy into it.


I bought my Pandora to have control, and I'm still learning all of its wonders with things like CLI Love and all of the other stuff that this community brings to the board day by day, week by week. /rant

 

[birdswithskirts]

i am overwhelmed with dosbox and gave up on it long ago. I still have the emulator and the roms in the proper place but I feel like I could not get laid in a whorehouse with a fistful of dollars when I mess with dosbox.


Most certainly, this topic is not just about my emulator failures.

Dos is a different kettle of fish. The idea, I suppose, is that people use their Pandoras to emulate systems they grew up with and love... and still have the software for.


If you've never used dos, and are not technically minded enough to put yourself in the the shoes of someone from the era that *only* had dos to work with... or not technically minded enough to... oh forget it!


You talk about putting the 'roms' in the right place...!!! dosbox and 'dos' doesn't work with 'roms' ... I haven't worked much with EX but with dos you have to have a complete install... i.e. You install the game, then you copy the installation folder into the directory that dos (or dosbox) recognizes as your designated C: drive... I *hope* you aren't just plonking the zips in there and expecting them to run???


And in referance to "who is the target audience for this?"... Hak... you were never the target audience. It's amazing how much you are getting out of the device and how much you've achieved, but I don't think it's realistic to demand that the Pandora be made 'pick up and play' to appease the people who bought it thinking it was a gaming handheld with a keyboard.


I suppose I'm being rather 'high-minded' as you put it... but I AM an extremely opinionated person... and I utterly *detest* the trend technology and human society in general is taking... which is to spoon feed everything on the premise that 'lowest COMMON denominator' is the standard. - They only do that because they want the largest possible target audience.


The Pandora wasn't created with profit as it's priority... it was created as an ANSWER to all the devices that were created with profit as a priority and that subsequently didn't cater to all of us that DON'T want to be spoon fed.


After all, there is no spoon. o.o

I think OP would like to make a profit as would their new investors, don't you think??


I think profit has to be a priority like it or not. Who is in a business to lose money?...be realistic.


I am not demanding anything as you suggest. I am just saying there are and have been many nuisances regarding the workings of a machine like this. I ,as others, have achieved more than I imagined but that entire frame of thinking is not for the majority of gamers, retro or otherwise.


This is not mean't to be a personal attack, I love the Pandora and have 3 of them. I used dosbox as one example, there are others that have me stumped but not many these days. The majority of available emulators out there I have mastered so to speak. It was tough too because nobody cared to help me here [which I totally understand].


There are people that were never 'spoon fed' as you say,they work hard for their money and family. But when it comes to a luxury such as video gaming, those same working class people want their cake and eat it too...on a platinum spoon at that. And there is nothing wrong with this at all. It is all about perception and perspective.


Realistically nobody is right or wrong here. The only wrong is if OP goes out of business because of not reaching enough of the masses to make a profit! Then we all lose.


It's nice to be a part of a unique gizmo society. Just because something is not unique or has become commonplace does not make any less special as far as I am concerned.


I think members here relish the fact that this is a limited bunch with the majority having much technological know how with this machine's workings.. and that is fine too!


i can see though how a potential buyer or new buyer might be intimidated buy all this...seriously so.

 

[Binky]

However, OP can make (or at least not loose) money by charging large amounts for what will always be a low sales, niche device. The niche understand and are willing to pay for a unique gadget that does what they want (literally).


As I remember from ED's new posts, OP is financially sound and the estimated return on investments is better than most.

 

[DaMummy]

I'll say it right now, Pandora2 would have a much better chance of making a large profit if it had android as a default OS, I'm just highly hoping that this doesnt happen because many of us here don't want another android device. there are easily hundreds of android devices you can choose from, and i like that the pandora fills a smart part of an audience that android and ios can never satisfy. android/ios are great in their own way, and extremely well at what they do, and both have tremendously pushed technology way past anything imaginable, but as mentioned before, the pandora 1 would have never survived with default stock android, because that is a market where you have to produce a new device with 3% higher specs every 2 weeks, and there are companies that tie this market of retro gaming on android with controls, its JXD.

 

[Derg]

With a competition in progress, there is naturally going to be a lot of extra excitement around coding and prizes. Granted, it's a very developer-centric forum the rest of the time too. I often think there must be a lot of regular users out there who check the forums for info but don't post. (Hi lurkers!)


Do you have examples of where user issues have been overlooked? I thought the forum had a pretty good track record of answering questions big and small.

Hello Gruso!

 

[birdswithskirts]

However, OP can make (or at least not loose) money by charging large amounts for what will always be a low sales, niche device. The niche understand and are willing to pay for a unique gadget that does what they want (literally).


As I remember from ED's new posts, OP is financially sound and the estimated return on investments is better than most.

Good then I hope it all sorts out. If this 'niche' is enough for OP to make the money they want then I am wrong.


I hope the solicited investors,niche,members reap from the benefits !!


Financially sound can be an oxymoron . But again i hope for the best one way or another.


I am not an investor so the true financial situation is not known to me and really none of my business either.


Now how about a few stars??

 

[leathco]

Not sure about a Pandora/Android setup. Android is a great system, and it even works great for portable handhelds (hi YinLips). Great if you just wanna play games and do some basic wifi web surfing.


But I ordered Pandora to have my portable game system, AND a small computer as well. I love the fact it has a full keyboard that can be used when needed, be it for emulating other computers or to hammer out a quick email or text document. I love the fact that I can load up any OS that the ARM cpu can support. I love the fact that tons of games can be recompiled to run on it. I love the expanded storage capacity from the dual SD card slots as well as the USB port. Thats why would drop 500+ bucks on a Pandora over 130 bucks on a Yinlips Android setup. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, but for what I wanna do, Pandora, please!

 

[vcoleiro1]

I must admit , I read Craigix's comment as just hiinting that a possible Pandora 2 will have Android running on it - reading between the lines. In my opinion it wouldn't phase me a bit , although I'm more than comfortable with Linux , Android would be a better choice in a P2 due to the vastly superior support it has . Linux dev support is dwindling a bit , it would make sense to move to a more future proof and better supported OS at this point in time. As linux devices are dwindling so will dev on emulators for them dwindle. As HW improves on Android devices, so will developers produce better and NEW emulators for it. I wouldn't want to be in a position where I had a device I couldn't run the latest NEW emu's on . It wouldn't be a great situation/feeling to have a P2 only to see Android noobs running some great new emu for a previously not emulated system on Android and know you couldn't use it.

 

[Binky]

Also, if he Pandora was the same as all the popular android smartphones, it would be less profitable and less popular than is at the moment. The Pandora exists to fill a gap in the market, if it weren't in a gap, it would have no market!

 

[Ziz]

For the hardware there needed to be investors and the openpandora team™ had the choice, what kind of stuff (e.g. where the board is produced and with how much RAM) to use, but the operating system, the pnd system and every single application is made by the whole community. And as mentioned before: The community does, what the community likes.


There are people liking Android and they try to port it to the pandora. But this is hard work and craig is not a help at all.


The pandora is a community handheld and it doesn't matter, whether some persons think, that it is _THEIR_ project. They can try to move the project in a direction they like, but the community has to agree.


And fact is: The community™ likes the Angström of the pandora, because it is really powerful and has MUCH more possibilities than Android. ;-)

 

[renegadechic]

you know, if we are trying to appeal to the "average consume" then its a good idea to look at the "average consumer" particularly on a gaming level. what games does the pandora play and who is that market? yes there are a lot of fantastic and original games for this device but a great deal of time and energy is put into emulators for older systems. its not the be and and end all but for many "average users" this is what they wanted it for. for a lot of consumers, they aren't interested in retro gaming. they want the latest technology and the latest games and they are absolutely entitled to do that, and they do. for people who wanted to emulate older games their portable options have always been technical, be it hacking PSPs or jailbreaking iphones and often dealing with inferior or simply lacking controls that were entirely ill-suited for the purpose. nevertheless they did it anyway. the process for hacking that hardware is absolutely not straightforward, and as far as i am concerned more difficult and more risky to the hardware than hacking around with brickable products ever could be. i have used and struggled with linux several times in the past with ubuntu installs that after several updates either lose their audio or their internet or something else and ive a second drive on my current machine just dormant with an ubuntu install i struggle to use but the pandora has been far more consistent. the PND system has been practically joyful from the start and if i have any problems the community has always been great with solutions. if the "average consumer" would historically go to lengths to find help and instructions for jailbreaking then they arent above seeking help when needed to, so really i think this device hits its perfect audience.


now if you want to say you want to change the "average consumer" then sure you can try but i honestly do not see it replacing peoples desire for the flashiest latest smartphones or the latest consoles and it certainly wouldnt do that just by having android on it along with a few novelty apps that they seem to thrive on. android would be a "thats nice" rather than a "thats amazing" and if anything, i for one would find it harder to use than the current OS and the PND system.


i honestly think that if you presume the pandora to be too hard to use then you either insult the ability of people using the device or you would do from a little patience and a bit more common sense when you throw your money at something if you arent willing to learn how to use it. i mean what do you need, a cartridge slot and an on button to get your head around it?

 

[Binky]

Also, Android is designed around 'multitouch', Pandoras aren't. While the community has the capacity to produce Pandora-centric awesome like .pnd and panorama, it should

 

[Batou456]

This thread seems to be rather bizarre.


From what I can tell from his posts the OP is basically incapable of using DOSBOX on a desktop. He then proceeded to setup a question thread, and when that didn't give him what he wanted fast enough created this thread to badmouth the entire development community.


Why? Because they hadn't ported his favorite DOSBOX front end, like DOSShell? Well no, he's mad because it's not an emulator program you drop roms into. Which is somehow the Pandora communities fault because damn it

https://www.youtube.com/embed/WLKukwm9ODo?feature=oembed to get your way is the way people should behave...

I would say the actual results of this thread where the community has put up with these antics is a statement in of itself how tolerant they are while trying to be helpful.

 

[DaMummy]

I would say the actual results of this thread where the community has put up with these antics is a statement in of itself how tolerant they are while trying to be helpful.

the fact that its hakmanplayer doesn't even begin to tell half the story of that statement

 

[b_o_b]

"The avarage consumer" is not a Pandora customer. I like the dev talk and the endless tweaks, updates and new releases. Also the ability to adjust it to your needs and have a bit of Linux fun is great. It is not a device for everyone though. It is not the click and run you see on the apple/android devices. Android would be fun, but I can live without it.


Can't live without the support of some devs like Notaz, Pickle and Skeezix though. IMO if this device and the community is fun for devs the best software will follow automatically. So no rules, no guidelines, no restrictions. Let the devs play, and then we will play along.

 

[WizardStan]

Complaining that DosBox isn't more friendly is like complaining that your car doesn't float on water.

 

[gruso]

Indeed, kind of ironic that DOSbox sent this thread where it did. MS DOS will be MS DOS now matter how friendly the Pandora OS is.


Lots of great posts in the thread, anyway. I share the view that at the time of Pandoras hitting the production line, it was not the right time for Android. If there was a magic Android app that increased production speed, maybe But I'm 100% in favour of what we have, especially in the knowledge that OS development does and will continue. If this had become an Android community, I don't know that I would have stuck around. And that wouldn't be any loss compared to the devs who would have moved on, or stayed with GPH devices.


A Pandora 2 (or whatever may come) supporting Android does seem like a smart move though. To Craig I say, don't look back and lament what could have been. The community has the device that they wanted, and your place in history is that of the mad bastard who made sure it happened. What's not to love? Direct your pro-Android energy forwards instead. People want to see what's next.