Talk With A Real Fcc/ce Certification Engineer.

[spaceballs3000]

Today I had a chance to talk to a FCC certification person.

Here is what he basically said in a nutshell.

FCC approval paths for integrated products,

Path 1, Intentional radiators new listing --> determination of tests required --> testing, report generation --> Telecommunications Certification Body (TCB) issues equipment authorization grant.

Path 2 Pre approved module device (existing device FCC ID) meets all module grant requirements --> Use the module manufacturers FCC ID on final device.

For path 2, the use of the Module Manufacturers FCC ID will require that the device meet all of the conditions of the original Module Grant, and that the Device design meets the Module Manufacturer design guidelines. The device is subject to verification testing for compliance to established limits. No FCC Filing is required.

To give an real world example of a path 2 device, Gumstix has a FCC certified WiFi module and even talks about FCC requirements for OEM integrators.

(Quotes from this thread)

... the Wifi/BT module does have FCC certification already. ...

Strange I spent months looking for the cheapest FCC certificated module in our product, and we did come across this module at one time, I think I even emailed the company asking this. If my memory serves me right I saw no indication of it being already FCC module certified from the original manufacture. ...

I have a document dated the 18th of June, 2008 with FCC and CE test chamber results done separately. Perhaps there are different qualifications for different countries (the channels are different for sure). It's a protected document so I can't share it obviously, but I don't know what else to tell you. Seems like a lot of effort to fake out results if you ask me. It's a huge document and it looks like days worth of testing that would be great to not have to do over again. Most of their documentation isn't public and you have to be a customer to get anything out of them. I was introduced to them by another company to get my foot in the door with them to begin with. Who knows what would have happened otherwise.

I also have this document (June 18th version, 123 pages); the report would only be useful in reducing FCC certification time/cost if the certification body/company were to use this test chamber results in their process. And that if they trust where the source came from.

I dug up my old email about this Wifi Module, pinged the company again, and they have confirmed the module does not have an FCC ID.

…
We don't have FCC ID.
…

Since this WiFI module does not have a FCC ID, thus path #2 is not possible, and you’re only left with path #1.

So the Pandora will have to be FCC certified the unit as a whole, and obtain an FCC ID.

 

[borgqueenx]

amen. E=MC2

 

[gruso]

So you're saying you don't trust what MWeston said?

 

[Butterman]

The plot thickens.

 

[bzar]

The plot thickens.

Dun dun dunnnn!

 

[elwing]

The plot thickens.

Dun dun dunnnn!

now the real question for american customers is:
- will openpandora being able to ship some non FCC certified for the first batch, or will they need for wait till they get a certification a few month later than the rest of the world?

 

[Nation.A.List]

So you're saying you don't trust what MWeston said?

It`s more the case of trusting what MWeston was told.

 

[emil10001]

Where did you get the information about the wifi module? Is there anyone on the dev team that can directly verify or discredit this?

 

[Exophase]

So you're saying you don't trust what MWeston said?

I think he's going to trust the company themselves more than MWeston, yeah. MWeston referred to a document, which spaceballs also confirmed, that must not have actually been results from real FCC testing or they'd have an FCC ID.

Seems like there was some misinterpretation of what's what.

 

[elwing]

guess they want to send the pandora with a nice stickers showing a FCC logo with a fake ID without telling us

 

[Poem58]

It's not like the FCC is gonna crash in my door and take my Pandora cause the WiFi chip has no ID number. I say if they can skip this step until there is a U.S. distribution then go for it. I realy don't wanna have to wait even longer for the tests. Now that my fantasy is over, this is gonna be a nightmare isn't it. Hopefully, this can be done rather quickly, but realistically what kind of added delay are we looking at?

 

[spaceballs3000]

So you're saying you don't trust what MWeston said?

I think he's going to trust the company themselves more than MWeston, yeah. MWeston referred to a document, which spaceballs also confirmed, that must not have actually been results from real FCC testing or they'd have an FCC ID.

Seems like there was some misinterpretation of what's what.

Speculation by me: I'm guessing the the document came from one of their customer who actually did do FCC/CE certification on their product, and they were nice enough to give the testing reports back to the original WiFi module manufacture company. So now the original WiFi manufacture company could recommend the same FCC Telecommunications Certification Body (TCB) group, and have a cheaper/quicker turn around time to certify. In this scenario though, the FCC ID is for the whole product, and not the WiFi module, it cant be backported to the manufacture (i.e. the manufacture can't use that FCC ID.)

 

[spaceballs3000]

It's not like the FCC is gonna crash in my door and take my Pandora cause the WiFi chip has no ID number. I say if they can skip this step until there is a U.S. distribution then go for it. I realy don't wanna have to wait even longer for the tests. Now that my fantasy is over, this is gonna be a nightmare isn't it. Hopefully, this can be done rather quickly, but realistically what kind of added delay are we looking at?

It's very unlikely but then it could be held up in customs, it was discussed somewhat in this thread onwards.

 

[Poem58]

It's not like the FCC is gonna crash in my door and take my Pandora cause the WiFi chip has no ID number. I say if they can skip this step until there is a U.S. distribution then go for it. I realy don't wanna have to wait even longer for the tests. Now that my fantasy is over, this is gonna be a nightmare isn't it. Hopefully, this can be done rather quickly, but realistically what kind of added delay are we looking at?

It's very unlikely but then it could be held up in customs, it was discussed somewhat in this thread onwards.

I followed that one as my post was right under yours in the link you just posted, however it seemed there was a lot of opinions about whether a game device needed it etc. etc.
My question is just this: realistically speaking, if FCC testing needs done. How long are we looking at adding in time before they can be certified and shippable?

 

[Lylep]

Sorry if this sounds selfish to the American readers, but will this affect European release dates?

 

[gp32rich]

The cynic in me thinks that SB3K wants to push in the queue to get his hands on a unit.

Seeing as I'm in euroland, FCC can wait.

 

[MWeston]

Informative post...

Okay so you are saying that what I have is either an FCC/CE test done by another company and shared with Jorjin which they are handing off to customers for some reason or this is just their own pretest that can be submitted to the testing agencies which they can either use or reject and require all new testing. Phew!

Well since the module HAS to be tested when installed in the Pandora with all the wires, metals and plastics around the antenna, there may not have been any benefit since they might end up running all the tests again. The benefit to me and to them should be that at least the module is known to comply with the standards.

Thanks for looking into this. It doesn't really change anything from what had to be done anyway, but still interesting to know.

 

[gaterooze]

Didn't the GP2X (and Wiz) have no FCC ID? They didn't seem to face any real issues in the US, so there shouldn't be any problem for the first batch at least?

 

[WizardStan]

Didn't the GP2X (and Wiz) have no FCC ID? They didn't seem to face any real issues in the US, so there shouldn't be any problem for the first batch at least?

I reiterate what I said in a different thread: just because you don't get caught doesn't mean you were right.

 

[elwing]

Didn't the GP2X (and Wiz) have no FCC ID? They didn't seem to face any real issues in the US, so there shouldn't be any problem for the first batch at least?

I reiterate what I said in a different thread: just because you don't get caught doesn't mean you were right.

I just wish we won't get 2 more month delay just because of a stupid and useless certification that is "needed" only in the us...