Surely The Case Moulds Should Be Done By Now ?

[Monk]

Having CNC prototyping done anywhere outside asia is prohibitively expensive.

I didn't mean to seem rude with the question. I was just wondering if the final production of everything or most things is in the US or China or elsewhere.

Thanks,

Noisome
[/quote]

To which Craig responded with:

[quote name='craigix' date='26 January 2009 - 05:37 PM' timestamp='1232987835' post='693107']
Aside from the Case it's all USA.
[/quote]


ED posts shortly after, and doesn't say anything to contradict that statement. The thread then shortly turned into a debate over whether the Chinese can make anything to high quality at all, or only with supervision, or it varies between companies etc. just like any other country. If OpenPandora "correct" the information about everything but the case being made in the USA, I missed it, but certainly we haven't ALWAYS known that everything was being made in China and only final assembly done in the USA. Far from it!!

 

[wermy]

I was also under the impression that everything but the case was from the US (I remember somewhere about QC being a concern with having the boards done in China [not to start another debate on that front, or anything...]). I'm positive I saw Craig say this somewhere, I just can't seem to find it. :\

Edit: Monk found a similar quote to the one I was looking for. But I'm just sure he said it was because they didn't want to leave the QC up to chance. This begs the question: if everything is made in China, why is it even being assembled in Texas?

 

[trendy]

For clarity, all prototype PCBs were made by [a company in California and they did a good job but they couldn't come close to the pricing we got for production in China and the assembler said the quality from this China company was about the best they have ever seen so we weren't going to argue with any of that!

Am I the only one that got this? Some assembling service was moved to China in good conditions for those that didn't get it. OMAP it's a US product. among probably all else, so most of it it's US origin. Bad uses of 'make' word. I'll go and make myself something to eat.
Products are manufactured (origin) and assembled. Please stop disturbing my session of 'moulds design' VR for so little 'knowledge'. <hides away a little more>

 

[greendots]

Yea Craig has been saying all the long that its in the US and now to hear this...

What is MW's post supposed to mean? The multi-layered PCB without any of the chips are made in china then sent to Texas where chips and everything else is soldered to the PCB? I assume by it being stated numerous times that everything needed has been shipped to the Texas factory.

The lack of communication is a continuous disappointment...

 

[VRAndy]

[quote name"amf66"]We've always known that it was made in China but assembled in Texas.[/quote]
Come on people! Don't say these sorts of things without searching!
This sort of misinformation is why a simple discussion turns into a flamewar.


LINK (02 November 2008)

This is real bleeding edge tech for a very low price when compared to similar machines, we have done everything we can to get the price as low as we can - but one thing we won't drop is quality - we won't use chinese factories, cheap parts etc. almost everything (inc the pcb) is made in north America.

LINK(26 January 2009)

Aside from the Case it's all USA.

 

[wermy]

Nice find VRAndy -- I think that first one was the very quote I was looking for.

 

[emil10001]

[quote name"amf66"]We've always known that it was made in China but assembled in Texas.

Come on people! Don't say these sorts of things without searching!
This sort of misinformation is why a simple discussion turns into a flamewar.


LINK (02 November 2008)

This is real bleeding edge tech for a very low price when compared to similar machines, we have done everything we can to get the price as low as we can - but one thing we won't drop is quality - we won't use chinese factories, cheap parts etc. almost everything (inc the pcb) is made in north America.

LINK(26 January 2009)

Aside from the Case it's all USA.

[/quote]

The PCBs are being made in China (otherwise why would I even have brought up the holiday again?). The company in Texas makes nothing. They just put stuff together.

Edit: I agree that we haven't always 'known' that. But, the fact seems to be that the PCBs are being done by the Chinese company, and the chips are then soldered on by the company in Texas. There may have been other posts by MWeston (or someone else) in the past that have stated this, or something similar. It was apparently not clear enough to make it into the mainstream of thought, but I would certainly take MWeston's word as what is happening, and stop the pointless discussion about anything to the contrary.

 

[Monk]

For clarity, all prototype PCBs were made by [a company in California and they did a good job but they couldn't come close to the pricing we got for production in China and the assembler said the quality from this China company was about the best they have ever seen so we weren't going to argue with any of that!

Am I the only one that got this? Some assembling service was moved to China in good conditions for those that didn't get it. OMAP it's a US product. among probably all else, so most of it it's US origin. Bad uses of 'make' word. I'll go and make myself something to eat.
Products are manufactured (origin) and assembled. Please stop disturbing my session of 'moulds design' VR for so little 'knowledge'. <hides away a little more>

I'll try to help you out. From the post you quoted from, we get:

The PCBs are being made in China (otherwise why would I even have brought up the holiday again?). The company in Texas makes nothing.

(actually that was the first line). The PCBs are being made in China. That may, or may not mean that populated boards come from China. A lot depends on the EXACT use of specific words, but it seems pretty clear that the PCBs are being MADE not ASSEMBLED in China.

From the bit you quoted:

For clarity, all prototype PCBs were made by a company in California

The prototype boards were made in the USA, not China.

but they couldn't come close to the pricing we got for production in China

but making the mass production boards in China is much cheaper. PRODUCTION in China. EXACTLY what we had previously been lead to beleive was not happening. This seems to be the result of a lack of communication - they've made changes to what they are getting from whom and haven't thought to update us to the changes AFAICS.

and the assembler said the quality from this China company was about the best they have ever seen so we weren't going to argue with any of that!

The assembler - that's the Texas factory again - recommended this Chinese company to OpenPandora, based on quality (from what we are told). So as far as MWeston is concerned, and limited to what he's said, the decision was made to shift MANUFACTURE of the PCBs to China - not assembly, which is in Texas - on the recommendation of the company doing the "assembling" in Texas.

We don't have a detailed definition of "assembling" - from where I sit it could be either assembling components onto the PCB, assembling the Pandora into the case, or both.
To summarise. It isn't an "assembing service" that has been relocated to China - the actual manufacture of the PCBs (at least) has been moved to China. Honestly!

 

[greendots]

[quote name"amf66"]We've always known that it was made in China but assembled in Texas.

Come on people! Don't say these sorts of things without searching!
This sort of misinformation is why a simple discussion turns into a flamewar.


LINK (02 November 2008)

This is real bleeding edge tech for a very low price when compared to similar machines, we have done everything we can to get the price as low as we can - but one thing we won't drop is quality - we won't use chinese factories, cheap parts etc. almost everything (inc the pcb) is made in north America.

LINK(26 January 2009)

Aside from the Case it's all USA.

The PCBs are being made in China (otherwise why would I even have brought up the holiday again?). The company in Texas makes nothing. They just put stuff together.

[/quote]

Do you not understand what is going on right now? MWeston's latest post seemingly contradicts everything we have been told so far about the board.

 

[Monk]

As this has all the hallmarks of another bloody flame war, I'd just like to point out that yes, this DOES seem to be a complete 180 degree change from what we've previously been lead to beleive - and that's a topic for sure - but let's not lose sight of this bit here:

the assembler said the quality from this China company was about the best they have ever seen so we weren't going to argue with any of that!

The main point for all of us should be the final result. If anyone wants to string Craig up for talking BS then I'll hold the rope for you, but really the Pandora is the thing, isn't it? I'd rather hope that the quality issue could help keep the discussion luke warm rather than being able to turn ice directly to steam without pausing to go through a liquid stage

 

[VRAndy]

I'll try to help you out. From the post you quoted from, we get:

Good summary.

MWeston's latest post seemingly contradicts everything we have been told so far about the board.

No, it seemingly contradicts, one single, inconsequential fact about that board.

Really, It's not a big deal. Doesn't matter to me where it's made.


The only thing that's weird about this conversation is how people are so quick to jump in and claim that it's been this way all along.

 

[Nation.A.List]

I'd rather hope that the quality issue could help keep the discussion luke warm rather than being able to turn ice directly to steam without pausing to go through a liquid stage

Bollocks, let em ave it!

 

[gibberish]

bleh.

 

[rmm2131]

Wow another witch hunt.

Did some of you think for a second that maybe months after Craig stated the pcb was being made in the U.S. that perhaps they the team decided later to shift to this chinese factory instead? Does that still make him a liar. No it doesn't.

Carry on. :blink:

 

[Monk]

Wow another witch hunt.

Did some of you think for a second that maybe months after Craig stated the pcb was being made in the U.S. that perhaps they the team decided later to shift to this chinese factory instead?

I beleive it has come up at least once, yes.

This seems to be the result of a lack of communication - they've made changes to what they are getting from whom and haven't thought to update us to the changes AFAICS.

 

[WizardStan]

Really, It's not a big deal. Doesn't matter to me where it's made.

Here's how I imagine it all went down.
MWeston to Craigix: Craig, these boards I got from California are great.
Craig to forum: Hello forum! We're getting boards from the US (California specifically, but he didn't say that)
MWeston to self: Dang, these guys want a lot to make the production boards. I wonder if we can find someone cheaper.
Texas to MWeston: How about these guys in China? They're reasonable price, and the best quality we've seen out of China!
MWeston to forum: Hello forum! We're getting boards from China!
Forum to Craigix: HE'S A WITCH! BURN HIM!

 

[Phawx]

Y'know. I promised myself I wouldn't come to this forum until next week. sigh. At least we are aware of a few more things. I showed my friends the N64 emulator running and they asked me when it's coming out. I said, "About two months." They laughed and I laughed and died a little inside.

 

[trendy]

Roadmap MWeston

No, Vorporeal is right. It is NOT a TI factory. Someone makes something up and it becomes fact somehow. I don't know for sure if TI even has their own assembly facility. I know they have their own facilities to make the actual silicon obviously but the rest might be cheaper for them to let a third party handle.

TI gets boards made there which is how we got introduced to the Texas assembler but TI doesn't have much to do with the Pandora project. There have been other misconceptions like we buy the chips from TI with the RAM soldered on too, but I think that got cleared up a while back. They want to help us with some testing now, but that hasn't started yet. That is how TI fits into the picture for us right now.

I just got another confirmation that actual injected parts will ship to me next week. Some of the molds are completely done right now, others (I suspect the more complicated ones like base bottom, outer lid and definitely hinge mechanism area on base top) are still being shaved and tweaked this week. I asked if the delays were because they were still cutting them or if they were testing them and thankfully the delays are because they are testing them. They have an NDS lite as a reference for the color (within a few shades, not necessarily 100% exact), matte finish and build quality that we are looking for (except for hinge build quality, our parts are much thicker there). That was the easiest way to get over the language barrier that always gets in the way. "You make this now!" seemed easier. Hoping for the best as always...

Oh, and second wave production PCBs (3895) were ordered on Sept. 30 just to get in the queue. We knew they wouldn't be starting until after the Chinese holiday anyway which is how it went down but we wanted our place in line. That gave us time to resubmit modified files if we had to before they did anything, but not lose our place. The boards should be deep into formatting and CAM inspection by now and perhaps already into the etching stage of inner layers.

There is no mention of place, only comparative date in the roadmap.

This first 100 debate might not be as big of a deal as you might think. It's likely that the time difference between the first 100 and the next 1000 will only be one week if any delay at all. The first 100 will be going nowhere until the case is done and shipped since we are no longer shipping out bare boards to anyone. They will go through very rigorous testing, over and over again. They will be used to establish the test procedure for the next batches of thousands. It's even possible that all 4000 will be done testing at the same time the cases show up and they will all start going out immediately after being put together.

I would say 95% of the parts are in Texas this week and the remaining parts (some connectors) should finally ship this week with the taxation stuff better understood. The case molds should be going to production this week as well. Dave was hoping to have it done this past week but it didn't happen so it seems reasonable to assume an extra week is all he will need.

The nubs are soldered to the PCB. The case has a ring around the nubs that prevents sideways motion. There is a key in the nub plastic that would hold it under the case if it could fall out (but not going to happen because it is soldered).

Those half moon pads go way back to when we were looking at the little clicky dome switches and I had to make provisions for those to be soldered on if we went that way. Once that was completely abandoned, we changed to the more standard pad which was a long, long time ago. There just hasn't been a picture if the top side of a PCB since the ones made in 2008.

I don't see anywhere mentioning the pcb origin. As I stated some assembling service was moved. More (irrelevant) details were never given.

I'll try to help you out. From the post you quoted from, we get:

The PCBs are being made in China (otherwise why would I even have brought up the holiday again?). The company in Texas makes nothing.

(actually that was the first line). The PCBs are being made in China. That may, or may not mean that populated boards come from China. A lot depends on the EXACT use of specific words, but it seems pretty clear that the PCBs are being MADE not ASSEMBLED in China.

[...]
To summarise. It isn't an "assembing service" that has been relocated to China - the actual manufacture of the PCBs (at least) has been moved to China. Honestly!

I still only see bad wording. Don't confuse assembling service with populating boards or manufacturing.
I don't want to see someone interpretation of the situation.
Too much improper composition of messages, but this is a forum, after all, and its excusable.
Just stop using make already. -amateurs <goes away, doesn't even bother make it made hidable>

 

[MWeston]

Why do some of you guys have to fret over everything? Back when Craig made his comments about "made in the US" it was accurate. We were getting quotes from US companies. Then the assembler tried this China company and loved the results more than any other manufacturer so we said we would like a quote from them. It came back about 40% cheaper than the US and the board is already crazy expensive, so we took it so we don't have to lose even more money trying to build this first batch. It's as simple as that.

In the end, why does it even matter what we do? As long as you get a quality working product, the rest truly is just our business, not yours (no disrespect intended).

 

[gaterooze]

In the end, why does it even matter what we do? As long as you get a quality working product, the rest truly is just our business, not yours (no disrespect intended).

I fully agree that it shouldn't matter, although I can see why it could to some people. If they really hate Chinese electronics (which would be pretty hard to avoid in this world!) and pre-ordered based on Craig's statement that nothing but the cases would be made in China, then yes, they have a legitimate grievance.

But really, does anyone fall into that category? If you had known parts would be made by a VERY GOOD & REPUTABLE Chinese company, would anyone have decided not to preorder instead?

If the answer is "no", then what's the big deal? It will almost certainly be the same level of quality - in fact, I assume the first 105 boards were made there, right? From all appearances and reports, they've been exceptional quality.