Stylus ideas

[rygD]

so don't hold your breath.

I am going to.  You can't tell me what to do.

If your idea works out will the result be something you can sell in small quantities, or that we can assemble ourselves fairly cheap without sourcing parts directly from China (or maybe go with domestically produced parts)?  

Holding my breath is starting to seem like it is not such a good idea beca

 

[comradekingu]

Ok, i added M3 to my overview.

However that is a effort to get it to fit a pandora style hole. With the pyra the hole could be made bigger to accept a standard 2BA dart. If they really function well then i dont see much of a point keeping backwards compatibility around.

A broader stylus is better to hold, or?  It looks like the pandora has room to spare for a bigger hole.

What companies make M3 darts?

 

[Grench]

I'm working from the idea that ED is going to 'stick with what works' and re-use the Pandora's stylus, slot and spring-clip holder for the Pyra.

So, I'm pointing towards a solution to use a weighted stylus with readily available and inexpensive tips.

There may be an inexpensive DIY solution coming too, but your previous declaration of $5 each for a low volume product involving precision machining is pretty hilarious.

Lots of companies make M3 darts. Very few make them in the ultra-skinny 5.15mm diameter we're after. 1/4" and 2BA darts will never be that skinny.

A hint to what I'm up to - M3 IS the thread diameter on M3 darts. Or more precisely, 3mm diameter with 0.50 thread pitch.

Still waiting on the slow mail from China with my additional parts.

 

[comradekingu]

Can get harrows darts on ebay for 8 dollars for 3, retail packaging. Those are made in britain.

Albeit not superslim, part of the alluring prospect is procuring an order of tested and available products.

Ø=4.6mm i saw someone made.  

Jochen Weissmann are handmade. I dont understand what makes that better for use as a stylus, but if enough improvements can be found maybe it makes sense.

http://www.a-zdarts.com/Products/M3-Add-a-gram__29156.aspx  could be used to lengthen a regular M3 dart.

 

[Grench]

Can get harrows darts on ebay for 8 dollars for 3, retail packaging. Those are made in britain.

Not sure how that is remotely relevant?

Albeit not superslim, part of the alluring prospect is procuring an order of tested and available products.

If they're larger in diameter than 5.15mm, then they're irrelevant. I don't see a crowd lining up to drill out the stylus hole on their Pandoras so it can fit a fatter stylus.

Ø=4.6mm i saw someone made.

Great - they made them. Are they for sale? Where?

Jochen Weissmann are handmade. I dont understand what makes that better for use as a stylus, but if enough improvements can be found maybe it makes sense.

I don't get it. You go from claiming the result should be $5 per throw and suggesting to buy $8 darts that won't work from Ebay to custom machine shop one-offs that involve multiple craftsman hours and lathe time ($$$s). Night meet day.

http://www.a-zdarts.com/Products/M3-Add-a-gram__29156.aspx  could be used to lengthen a regular M3 dart.

I have a set of those on the way as part of my 'other method' project. They're a lot smaller than they look in the picture. They come in 2 sizes, 1gm and 1.5gm. That's the mass of a paper clip and one and a half clips respectively, so they're pretty tiny.

 

[comradekingu]

So if it costs 5 dollars per dart made in britain, thats the pricepoint for what it costs to produce something there and even put it in retail packaging.

It shouldnt cost 100+ dollars to go from one set of threads to another. It is entirelly feasible we can find something that is suitable and already mass produced.

For how 100 dollar darts are probably good, i imagine a lot of it has to do with aerodynamics, and a atunement to a slightly modified stylus-grip.

 

[Grench]

So if it costs 5 dollars per dart made in britain, thats the pricepoint for what it costs to produce something there and even put it in retail packaging.

You're using an ad on ebay to insist on a price point for something you have shown to barely understand.

Despite ebay's best efforts to the contrary, they can't catch everything.

1. ebay sells peoples used and broken junk.

2. ebay sells overstocks.

3. ebay sells fraudulent and imitation stuff.

4. You're comparing apples and oranges. The super-el-cheapo darts that ship with most dart boards aren't hardly fit to allow your brother's kids to play with. The whole freeking point of this exercise is to find ways to create a HIGH QUALITY stylus option for the Pandora and Pyra. If you want adequate and CHEAP, the stock stylus fits the bill perfectly. It is for sale at ED's shop for under $3 per stylus.

Please find an actual Harrows or other dart set in M3 thread with a barrel diamter of <= 5.15mm available from a RETAIL outlet to use as your price point.

It shouldnt cost 100+ dollars to go from one set of threads to another. It is entirelly feasible we can find something that is suitable and already mass produced.

For how 100 dollar darts are probably good, i imagine a lot of it has to do with aerodynamics, and a atunement to a slightly modified stylus-grip.

Again, you've completely missed the above messages about different types of dart manufacturing. 1/4", 2BA and M3. It is NOT POSSIBLE to make a 1/4" or 2BA dart fit the 5.2mm slot on the Pandora. M3 IS just barely possible - as I've shown above. However, M3 darts ARE more expensive, whether you can understand the reasons or not.

 

[comradekingu]

http://www.nationaldarts.com/Dart-Sets-Soft-Tip/c9/p170/Harrows-Club-Brass-Soft-Tip-Darts/product_info.html

To my understanding this is a set of british made darts. Selling for 10 dollars retail. Brass is fine with me, for a dollar extra they have ones that are painted.

Cant find any similarly priced m3 darts, but in essence it boils down to what is possible.

The pyra can possibly accommodate a larger dart and/or shorter stylus, since the compartment hasnt been made yet, and while that makes it incompatible with the pandora, it does however mean its feasible to get dart-type syluses, since they can be bought in bulk.

If you are someone who plays darts, by all means, even 200dollars doesn't add up to a impossible sum if you only buy it once.

Something that _plays_ well, costs accordingly, in turn quickly putting it out of the running for something that can be an official option. There could be a market for a small custom run for existing pandora customers, but for that there is already available options. And then you save yourself the hassle of something potentially going wrong.

I only understand that m3 darts can be made with less complex machining, Basically take a "gjengesett" threadset? and apply to a sylinder of aluminium which is chopped to length, and had a bit of the tip taken down with a lathe, then apply a m3 softtip. Maybe something IDV engineering could do.

There doesnt seem to be any ready made cheap m3 softtip darts. http://www.dartsport24.dk/index.php?route=product/product&sort=p.price&order=ASC&limit=100&manufacturer_id=9&product_id=502 (think this is made in china)

A resistive stylus for lets say 15 dollars needs to bring sufficient amounts of added value to what the plastic pandora stylus offers.

Seems like in the dart world m3 is currently a still exotic way of getting a different weight distribution http://www.dartguy.com/m3.html

 

[klapse]

Maybe a poll would be useful to see how many people are interested in a "deluxe" stylus?

I would be fine with the current one.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

I will use this as my Pyra stylus.

 

[Grench]

http://www.nationaldarts.com/Dart-Sets-Soft-Tip/c9/p170/Harrows-Club-Brass-Soft-Tip-Darts/product_info.html

To my understanding this is a set of british made darts. Selling for 10 dollars retail. Brass is fine with me, for a dollar extra they have ones that are painted.

Cant find any similarly priced m3 darts, but in essence it boils down to what is possible.

The pyra can possibly accommodate a larger dart and/or shorter stylus, since the compartment hasnt been made yet, and while that makes it incompatible with the pandora, it does however mean its feasible to get dart-type syluses, since they can be bought in bulk.

If you are someone who plays darts, by all means, even 200dollars doesn't add up to a impossible sum if you only buy it once.

Something that _plays_ well, costs accordingly, in turn quickly putting it out of the running for something that can be an official option. There could be a market for a small custom run for existing pandora customers, but for that there is already available options. And then you save yourself the hassle of something potentially going wrong.

I only understand that m3 darts can be made with less complex machining, Basically take a "gjengesett" threadset? and apply to a sylinder of aluminium which is chopped to length, and had a bit of the tip taken down with a lathe, then apply a m3 softtip. Maybe something IDV engineering could do.

There doesnt seem to be any ready made cheap m3 softtip darts. http://www.dartsport24.dk/index.php?route=product/product&sort=p.price&order=ASC&limit=100&manufacturer_id=9&product_id=502 (think this is made in china)

A resistive stylus for lets say 15 dollars needs to bring sufficient amounts of added value to what the plastic pandora stylus offers.

Seems like in the dart world m3 is currently a still exotic way of getting a different weight distribution http://www.dartguy.com/m3.html

 

Maybe a poll would be useful to see how many people are interested in a "deluxe" stylus?

I would be fine with the current one.

You can also simply use a bic pen with the cap still in place. It won't fit into the stylus holder or give any feeling of quality, but since neither of those matter to either of you, go for cheap. Entirely your option to do so.

 

[klapse]

 

Maybe a poll would be useful to see how many people are interested in a "deluxe" stylus?


I would be fine with the current one.

You can also simply use a bic pen with the cap still in place. It won't fit into the stylus holder or give any feeling of quality, but since neither of those matter to either of you, go for cheap. Entirely your option to do so.

That would be worse than the current stylus solution, since it wouldnt fit inside the pyra.

 

[comradekingu]

Are we talking aerodynamical quality or stylus quality?

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Are we talking aerodynamical quality or stylus quality?

My bullet stylus above has the best aerodynamic quality.

 

Maybe a poll would be useful to see how many people are interested in a "deluxe" stylus?


I would be fine with the current one.

You can also simply use a bic pen with the cap still in place. It won't fit into the stylus holder or give any feeling of quality, but since neither of those matter to either of you, go for cheap. Entirely your option to do so.

That would be worse than the current stylus solution, since it wouldnt fit inside the pyra.

My bullet stylus above will fit through the Pyra just fine.

 

[Neelix]

My bullet stylus above will fit through the Pyra just fine.

*snickers*  Aye,  it would at that.  Though I find it preferable to be able to keep using the device after putting the stylus away.   (not to mention that it seems a tad short)

- Neelix

 

[comradekingu]

Full jacket is for casuals, why not put soft dart tips in hollow point bullets? Not even airport security can argue with that logic.

 

[rygD]

My bullet stylus above has the best aerodynamic quality.

I think the dart has it beat.  The bullet itself would be insufficient as a stylus.  I haven't compared the data of the aerodynamics of a bullet and a narrow dart, however you need to keep in mind that a bullet is propelled from the rear out of the shell and through a rifled barrel.  All of those are factors in the efficiency, and it is designed as a complete system.  If you were to throw a bullet and a dart I am sure you would find the dart performs better, since it is designed to be thrown.  Since you seem to mean that the entire round will be used as a stylus, not just the bullet (which would be far too short for me to use comfortably as a stylus), I think that particular round, which I am guessing is a .300 RUM, might not be a good choice since the overall length is a reduction from the Pandora stylus (edit: but just a little bit, Neelix).  At least you solved the issue of the stock stylus being too narrow.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Haha!  This board is funny.  Everything gets analyzed to perfection

 

[Grench]

Progress.


1 drawback. Brass offsets may contain lead.


All of the above work fantastically as stylus. The one with the dart shaft requires kinetic input to remove from slot. The rest fit and retrieve fine.

 

[Grench]

My favorite twist on the theme yet.


@$50 in parts though.


Cheapest one above (all brass offsets) could be turned out cheaper than postage.