Still Believe In Craig & Ed Despite The Recent Revalations


CPUnltd

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depends on the situation... if I didn't seem threatening, you wouldn't pull a gun on me... if I know martial arts, it would be in your best interest to pull the gun on me from a distance (every art under the sun has plenty of disarming techniques)... but if you enter the situation with caution, gun will likely beat kung fu... if you don't, kung fu almost always beats gun... :p
 

CPUnltd

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You have a good point, DaveC, but it is more true that the highest of martial artists utilize their arts for self expression and to gain better comprehension of themselves and all of existence around them... defending others is moreso a happy effect of an otherwise evolutionary effort.
 

DaveC

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Custom Processing Unlimite said:
You have a good point, DaveC, but it is more true that the highest of martial artists utilize their arts for self expression and to gain better comprehension of themselves and all of existence around them... defending others is moreso a happy effect of an otherwise evolutionary effort.
I took martial arts for a few years and the thing they stated over and over again is that this instruction isn't for the purpose of beating people up for trivial reasons. They stated that if that is why you are here, leave now, period, end of story. They were totally serious about that and they said the purpose of it, in addition to what you said above, is if you feel like you or someone you care about is in imminent danger you can use it. Even at that if it is just some drunk fool that takes a swing, incapacitating moves are recommended(not bone breaking stuff but knock downs etc). Thugs in an alley with knives are a different story....

An internet argument, or someone flipping you off in traffic, or calling you a name etc is considered trivial. Just like you wouldn't shoot someone in the face for saying "fuck you" the same applies with a martial arts attack.

That is my rant about that. I guess back on topic for me.
 
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benji_stein

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Custom Processing Unlimite said:
Covering each point made in my direction...:

actually, I DID mean exponential... for it to be a 1:1 increase, what you would see is more people making whole pandora's themselves... what I mentioned was exponential because with more workers (as has been pointed out by a post either by Craig or ED, can't remember which at the moment, but leaning toward Craig) they could switch from individual workers making individual pandoras to an assembly line model where each person does smaller portions of work and, overall, produce more pandoras. Which is why 3 workers produced ~70 units while (in the example given in that post) 5 people would produce 150 units. That is not linear... 3^70 is less production than 5^150... a rough example if the numbers continued to increase would be 7^260, 9^400, 11^572... that is figured by only by the fact that production increase is about 7 units per worker going from 3 to 5. technically, we are both correct, as there would be a straight line if those predictions were graphed, but they are exponential because the two lines representing both figures (the workers and the units) would make a wedge vs parallel lines. And chances are, the more workers that are added, the higher the number of units per worker would increase due to less work needing to be done by each worker... why? less work means more productivity, simply due to easier tasks (or less tasks) speeding up each worker's efforts. Should be self-explanitory, but if you need me to explain, I'm long-winded enough to do the job. :D
Sorry, but no. The mere nature of it being an increasing straight line makes it *linear* and not exponential. Some smart-ass is going to try to point out that a constant is also a straight line, and my response is going to be "sure, with a coefficient of zero". Exponentials aren't "wedges" (not sure where that's coming from), they're curves. See my earlier link.

You want to talk some math? Sure. Using your own data and excel I get the following as the suggested formula: units = 62.7 * people - 148.5. This came from a linear regression, but it had the best R^2 value of the various regressions I tried. That's a *linear* equation, because it's of the form y = a*x + b, e.g. it had a coefficient in front of x, and no powers of x greater than 1. If there were other powers of x, it might have been quadratic, or some other polynomial. But you don't get to exponential until you have x *in* the exponent, e.g. a^x. That would look something like: 2 workers - 70 Pandoras, 5 workers - 150 pandoras, 7 workers - 320 Pandoras, 9 workers - 690 Pandoras. (I'm using 22.316*e^0.3811x here, which was an exponential fit for those first two data points).

Custom Processing Unlimite said:
Wrong... profits, of some type, are necessary for a business to survive. Show me a non-profit that grows, thrives and is worth a damn that has a break-even budget (or a negative budget) in donations and other sources of funding. When a non-profit has a bake sale, they make profits off the food so they can put it back into the organization. If increasing your money by doing things is NOT profit, then what is? Your idea is too generalized to back up on this one, friend. Money is necessary for Business... maybe a simpler fact than the one I pointed out before, but your efforts do earn a "nice try". (and that's not being sarcastic or offensive to you directly, it's just being honest.
Heard of the red cross? They're a non-profit that provides a lot of aid all over the world. How do they get money? Donations, fund raisers, blood drives, volunteers, you name it. Do they use a lot of money? Sure; they have a budget of about 9 billion USD. But that's not profit, because no one takes home a dime - their expenses are exactly equal to their costs. Compare that, say, to Microsoft, where they consistently make more money than they use. Sure, they funnel a lot of it back into R&D, but it's not the same, because at the end of the day, their goal is to make money. At the end of the day, the Red Cross is trying to help others, and doesn't keep a dime.

Custom Processing Unlimite said:
You misread what I said. Pay by the unit is more efficient and less costly than pay by the hour... if for no other reason than the significant drop in the likelihood that workers would slack off or get lazy. Hourly is the worst of the two. And the time off wouldn't matter unless you were being lazy and elongating the work just to keep the flow of money going. You are NOW ripping off your boss and raising the cost of the product to fill your own pockets. Congrats... the customers will love you for that. With my overall example (where productivity would be the same hourly as it would be by the unit) You make the same amount of money in 5 days as you would/could in 2 - 3... how is that bad for ANYBODY? Would you rather make $300 in 5 days or 3? Do the math, 5 days = $60/day, 3 days = $100/day. still $300 a week either way. Where's the down side???
Sounds great. So then where's the increased cost for OPT on hiring more? Let's say they pay $15 (it divides nicely) per completed Pandora. 3 workers get $5 each, and can produce so many Pandoras a day. At 5 workers, they get $3 each, but will produce more. In the end, you're still paying $15 each for 4000 Pandoras. Sure, there's no down side - and the upside is faster. We don't disagree at all. But I *am* saying that if the cost is the same, then there are no *additional* expenses needed to hire the extra two workers, like Craig had originally claimed.

Custom Processing Unlimite said:
Again, you misunderstand... I said you'd pay more up-front, not more overall... if paying by the hour - a month's salary will be made in a month, if paying by the unit - a month's salary can be made in 2 or 3 weeks... given that model, with a constant in-flow of products to be worked on, the mfg could end up spending close to 2 times as much money in a month's time for production and end up with more than twice the product as the hourly option. Bottom line is instead of spending $1000 in labor for the month of Feb, they spent $2000... but they most likely get twice the number of finished units, if not more. I'm having a hard time simplifying this any more than I am... especially since most of what I said repeats itself slightly different each time to give a different perspective on the same concepts (as this response is proving)... you completely miscomprehended because I never said it would cost more per unit, as you seem to think I did.
*IF* you have an unlimited supply of orders, then yes you can spend twice as much money on production if you have twice as many workers, and so produce twice as many Pandoras.
On the other hand, if they have a fixed number of units to make and sell, then you can spend half as long with twice as many workers, and so pay the same amount (1/2 * 2 = 1). Or, to use your dates, instead of taking two months to building with 2 workers, $1000 in Feb and $1000 in March, you get all of it built in one month (Feb) with 4 workers, at the same cost of $2000.

I think perhaps we're talking at cross purposes. I don't think *you're* saying it will cost more per unit. We agree there. But *Craig* said he needed more money to hire additional workers, and I'm claiming that additional workers would mean *everyone* works for less time, and so costs are the same. So why the need for the extra cashflow? Clearly it's an excuse to hide something else.

Custom Processing Unlimite said:
Lastly, did you date the times when ED said they were almost out of units to build and when he said they were stockpiling? I am under the impression that you did not. I am also under the impression that the "almost out" statement came BEFORE the "stockpiling" statement. I could be wrong, and you can verify this if you'd like, as I enjoy being proven wrong when I am wrong. But to note contradictory statements without taking into account the time between them is obsurd. My apologies if this all seemed like a personal attack. My efforts here were moreso to defend my direct and simple statements... that most people seemed to have comprehended (or not been willing to speak up that they disagreed)... both which are assumptions on my behalf. :D and I am more than honest enough to admit that.
Yes, I did. Both of them were mentioned. On Jan 26th, he'd said they had run out previously - he was referring to the shipment sent on ~ Jan 20th - and we hadn't been told of any additional shipments other than the upcoming one. Then, on Feb 1st, ED says they've been stockpiling. Which mystery shipped boards had they been stockpiling? Again, it doesn't add up.

Custom Processing Unlimite said:
In the end, the only real bottleneck that could be there is production of the components... because whenever OPT gets a stockpile of parts, they can do the "instant pandora" marketing scheme all over again and hire more workers (or hire back those previous workers) to build the units. Its all about getting you what you bought and expect to receive, FASTER! I wonder if anyone factored in the fact that raising the price of the units was creating jobs for people (regardles of how long the term was, jobs are jobs) in a supposedly dying global economy... Wonder if anyone factored in the B2B relations they may be making with local Temp agencies... hmmm... I do wonder...
Except the jobs are already there - it's just whether you spread them out or do them all at once.
And, as I keep saying, you're only guaranteed to get the units faster if the instant pandoras are limited in quantity (still haven't ever gotten that confirmed), and if there isn't a bottleneck in component production. Which I would also find completely flabbergasting, given CC's past performance.

Custom Processing Unlimite said:
(disclaimer: this was NOT a personal attack. If I chose to personally attack anybody here I'd quite literally use a people search service, get on a plane [bus or train, depending on how far away from me you are] and Kung-Fu the crap out of you and whoever tried to save you from me at your front door [quite literally, as I know Kung Fu]... doing it over the internet is useless and a waste of EVERYBODY'S time. Mine for typing it, and everyone else's for reading it... disclaimer over! :p )
None taken. I enjoy proving you wrong the debate, too.
 
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CPUnltd

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I will agree to disagree with you on this one, because most of my points you, again, misunderstood and got completely lost in translation. I pointed out bottom-line information and you found the most abstract parts of that and ran with them. That's fine... which is why I agree to disagree, because we will take over this thread for the next few pages (if not more) debating what is, essentially, moot points and it will do nothing more than occupy us while we wait for our units. I'd rather utilize my time elsewhere while I wait for my unit, thank you. :)
 

mitosis

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CPU, you are awesome... I like you... regardless of any OT subjects about arts or not ;) I had to come out of a 5+ month long lurking just to say that.

Now, a plea for reason and peace:

I can hardly even stand to come around here anymore, not even to read. As someone who at one point in time could practically have made the claim to having read almost everything any of you have ever said on here for how much time he used to spend reading here, that says a lot. Heck I think it was a good 2 years after I started visiting here before I ever even made an account... and I say this just so you'll understand the significance of when I say that it hurts too much to come here now... I can't even read my favorite reading material.

You guys... you're breaking my heart. As a hobbyist with a deep passion for electronics and open source, the Pandora is my LIFE, my obsession, my fantasy of all fantasies... I feel like you're all my pandora-blood-brothers (in a unisex way, girls can be blood brother too!) and yet here you are fighting amongst each other! WHY?!??

The arguing over semantics and the nit-picking over the tiniest details... it's driving me I N S A N E !

I can't even imagine what it must be like for the poor OP team. Michael, Michael, Craig, Dave and the entire software team: I LOVE you guys! (no homo) Seriously, you guys are my heroes and I have got your backs to the fullest of my abilities... I am here for you and will never pull my money out of the project or stop marketing the Pandora to everyone who'll listen. Anything any of you is ever doing will always be high on my list of awesome to look out for, I hope some day to be doing my own thing just like you guys. Please don't ever give up on being as awesome as you are! I'm sure there's a lot of people who share this sentiment too.

Give these guys a break! ...they're just ordinary joes like you and me! ...they're just guys with a hobby trying to make unreal things happen that you would piss your panties to even ATTEMPT! Have you EVER heard of a project like this, to this degree and magnitude??!?! EVER??!



And now to jump into the foray with fists swinging:

Here's how I see this stupid situation right here, I'm someone who blatantly denies the mindset that everything is black and white... I'm the kinda guy who sees things from more perspectives than are good for him, and I tend to throw myself headlong into an argument and support the most interesting standpoint or the one most likely to be shock provoking. /me shrugs, it's fun?

Rarely ever is any one stand the "correct" thing to do since the arguments behind any TRULY "correct" thing would be irrefutable... like scientific laws (not theories, laws). More often the "correct" thing to do has as many downsides as it does advantages because this is REAL LIFE... we're up against Murphy's law here. This is not some cookie-cutter circuit simulation where every part is perfectly to specification, this is not a sandbox video game where we can just conjure up creations that defy the laws of physics, this is the analogue real world... where things are infinitely variable to an infinite degree, and not simply "either this or that".

As an engineer with a good amount of manufacturing experience in my background, everything along this roller coaster journey that we call Pandora production has been EXTREMELY straight forward and simple to me... they are dealing with the real world, they are dealing with real shit that happens unexpectedly. The decisions the team makes don't seem like strange, drastic changes but are rather the obvious conclusion to which any logical engineering or product management team could arrive if they were in the same circumstance.

I guess for those of you who have no clue what it's like to bring a product to the light of day can either A. trust in the OP team, or B. you can pretty much figure you're not cut out for this kinda project and you're in over your head... I might suggest that you should leave, but that's just my opinion... and it pains me so to have to stoop to the level of dealing in absolutes like this.

Not to say that there won't come the day when you, the consumer, can get your Pandora in the manner you imagine it ought to come to you... but for now, please leave my fellow engineers, programmers, and hobbyist friends alone while we make this device kick ass, thank you. It hurts me to have to say things like this, but right now it just feels to me like the biggest mistake the OP team ever made was stepping outside the hobbyist scene.

Now, before you go get your hackles up 'cause you're some die-hard fan and you're not a programmer or an engineer... well I was just like you before I had more formal education under my belt... if you're here, you're hobbyist scene... you know about the gp32 or the pandora or your homebrew running psp and therefore you're here and therefore you're a console hobbyist... just like all these guys on the OP team... so why are you fighting against your own scene?
 
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1. Credit card refunds, Graig and company blames the banks, when in reality they are the ones to blame because they were ignorant of Credit Card rules.
2. They say two month for years.
3. They spend time on other new projects like icontrol pad, when I'm sure it could have used that time and applied it to the Pandora.
4. They say they are going to do Secure Digital (SD) licensing, but then they don't.
5. They say they are going to do FCC certification, but they decided not to do that either.
6. They take money for the dev fund, yet I have to see how this money was applied.
7. They say they the Pandora is CE certified, but to be CE complaint they require a Notified Body (NB) approval (i.e. unlicensed radio), yet when you look at the Pandora label at the CE mark, it doesn't even have the NB number next to the CE logo. Which then makes it invalid.
8. They offer to sell Pandora's to people at $500, to pay more assembly workers. But how are they going to makeup the original cost of the parts + PCB assembly that came from the original pre-order customer(s)?
 

sebt3

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mitosis said:
CPU, you are awesome... I like you... regardless of any OT subjects about arts or not ;) I had to come out of a 5+ month long lurking just to say that.
...
Give these guys a break! ...they're just ordinary joes like you and me! ...they're just guys with a hobby trying to make unreal things happen that you would piss your panties to even ATTEMPT! Have you EVER heard of a project like this, to this degree and magnitude??!?! EVER??!
agreed.

spaceballs3000 said:
{some junk}
Go troll away. Get your refund, and let the rest of us alone, would you ?
 
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renegadechic

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spaceballs3000 said:
1. Credit card refunds, Graig and company blames the banks, when in reality they are the ones to blame because they were ignorant of Credit Card rules.
2. They say two month for years.
3. They spend time on other new projects like icontrol pad, when I'm sure it could have used that time and applied it to the Pandora.
4. They say they are going to do Secure Digital (SD) licensing, but then they don't.
5. They say they are going to do FCC certification, but they decided not to do that either.
6. They take money for the dev fund, yet I have to see how this money was applied.
7. They say they the Pandora is CE certified, but to be CE complaint they require a Notified Body (NB) approval (i.e. unlicensed radio), yet when you look at the Pandora label at the CE mark, it doesn't even have the NB number next to the CE logo. Which then makes it invalid.
8. They offer to sell Pandora's to people at $500, to pay more assembly workers. But how are they going to makeup the original cost of the parts + PCB assembly that came from the original pre-order customer(s)?
so what has this new attempt to defame people achieved?

whatever, my pandora, in my house, that i have received and many other people will soon receive, is absolutely amazing. it was worth all the wait and really, all you have EVER done is assumed peoples actions and motives, claimed victory when you haven't been answered on those assumptions, used archaic quotes massively out of context to prove whatever assumption you want to prove and just disseminated bad feeling amongst the people on this board.

i do not understand why people like you are allowed to post on here. you contribution nothing constructive and only ever attempt to destroy. you should be ashamed of everything you try to be here and should be silenced. Craig, EvilDragon and dozens of other devs on here have given more sleepless nights, money, time, effort, blood, sweat and tears to this community that i bet you have ever or will ever give to anything. now GO AWAY.
 
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mitosis

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spaceballs, I don't see you starting any handheld console projects around here... if you WERE, I have my doubts you'd have done anything different. Don't let the reality of what the past was like get confused by that whole "hindsight being 20/20" thing... sure you wouldn't make those same mistakes NOW, but if you were in their shoes at those times, before you knew all this, I HIGHLY doubt you or anyone could have done any better.

1. As if YOU would have known these rules to which you refer? ...yeah right you'd have done the same thing.

2. You'd say the same thing if it was your project... unless you're some kinda sick pessimist who thinks he's always gonna fail, you're likely gonna be hyping up your project and enthusiastic about its success.

3. So you own their lives now? Apple shouldn't make ipads because you ordered an ipod? Why shouldn't they pursue other projects? Wouldn't you?

4. Well sometimes you think you need something and then you do more research and realize you don't... you'd have done the same thing.

5. Once again, sometimes you think you need something and then you do more research and realize you don't... you'd have done the same thing.

6. That is entirely speculation as to whether or not they have even touched that dev fund at all, and you'd have done the same thing if you were in the same situation (whatever that may be, you'd have to be kidding yourself to think you actually know everything that's going on with the project unless you're part of the OP team)

7. Once again speculation... are you a CE investigator? ...do you REALIZE that YOU as the consumer have no responsibility in such matters. If the OP team wants to be releasing "unapproved" devices then so be it... it's not like the gadget police are gonna show up at your door and arrest you for owning one.

...now this next one is IMPORTANT since I really don't think many of you even realize how much you owe them:

8. They're not gonna make up the original cost of the parts and PCBs from the original pre-orders. They never said they would. The OP team has absorbed the loss for your sake... as far as I'm concerned you owe them half a Pandora since they paid for half of it... be happy they're so nice and are giving all these ungrateful strangers like yourself their hard earned money for free. The 500 dollar Pandoras aren't a grab for money or an attempt to make up past losses, it's just a necessary move to keep the project afloat. It's either that or the project ends soon... which would you rather have?

I'm just gettin' crankier and crankier the longer I stay here right now... so I think it's about time I go back into lurking for a while, I've said what I have to say... you either know how to read english or you don't. If you can read then everything I have said should be crystal clear, if not then I'm sorry I don't have the time to draw this out like a picturebook.


To Everyone with Grievances about this Instant Pandora thing:

If you'd rather have the project die than let a few people pay PHENOMENALLY more than what you have paid to get a Pandora before you, then I want you dead and off my planet... stop wasting our precious time and oxygen. Goodbye, you are useless... go colonize a patch of dirt with worms plz. I've waited so long and patiently for my Pandora that at this point in time, anyone who wants to stand in the way of the OP team succeeding is my mortal enemy... nothing else matters but the success of the project. I really don't think I stand alone here, just look at the last two post before mine... GTFO TROLL!



p.s "...all you have EVER done is assumed peoples actions and motives, claimed victory when you haven't been answered on those assumptions, used archaic quotes massively out of context to prove whatever assumption you want to prove and just disseminated bad feeling amongst the people on this board." OMG, brilliant! High-five Renegade!
 

alerino

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i wished my english skills were like yours guys, that's what i always wanted to say to the drama queens
 

CPUnltd

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now, now... RenegadeChic... calm down... (the name fits you :p)

in the grand scheme of things, if we don't have trolls and nay-sayers, this place would be way too positive and weird to hang out in. That balance is needed to keep us all sane (enough) and appreciate our toys & games. Besides, the best way to get rid of annoying people is to just ignore them. :D When their words hold no weight, they go away. Simple as that. But as long as one person gives them weight, they give them power... and with that power, they can infect the minds of others and "turn" them in their favor. So I say let them be, and they will go feed somewhere else when they get tired of wasting their time here.

I agree that OPT is doing a great job at what they can and, of course, will make mistakes because they are human and new to the game. So when all said and done, I'm not upset with things being as they are. But I also know, in the end, that if they fail at this point, SOMEBODY (if not myself followed by the best techs I can find) will take up the reigns and make this happen. It's not the most expensive thing in the world to make happen if managed well enough, so I know they won't fail. But I also know that I'd head up a revival project if they ever did.

soft rant over! :p
 

CPUnltd

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cbox said:
I found a magazine for CPU

internet_tough_guy_magazine.jpg

HAHA!!! that's priceless... good one. I think I'd probably take that as if they were offering the fellatio... just to see the reactions I'd get! :D


If anyone would like the list of Martial Arts I'm claiming to have mastered, just ask... it's pretty long (with footage as well!) :D
 
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renegadechic

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Custom Processing Unlimite said:
now, now... RenegadeChic... calm down... (the name fits you :p )
you don't wanna see me mad ;)

its been a really strange ride... i'd love to be able to agree on the whole "would be too positive" thing. as time has passed there have been a steady grind of naysayers and critics that people have responded to in different ways. i have a terrible habit of lurking for months then being drawn out by one or two persistent trolls. spaceballs has been getting to me for at least a year now, ever since he showed up banging on about CE and FCC stuff.

on top of that i feel really sorry for the team, as well as amazed by some of their patience. i honestly do not know how ED stays so calm and so optimistic and most of all completely diplomatic about the whole thing. i have always liked craig too, most of all because i have never been given cause to dislike him. hey, i've spent many an evening getting mad and lashing out at people on here and i don't even have anything on the line. we can all joke around and get frustrated about the project but i often feel that the reason this project happened was because it was born here and nurtured and supported here, but despite all of that people have slowly chipped away at it. it started out as being extraordinary passion, with every topic of conversation and news picked over with hope, but then with frustration people have taken it out of anyone who will retaliate. its pretty safe to say that Craig bore that brunt because he let people know he wasn't happy about it. people endlessly slated him, then as soon as he hits back people paint him as untrustworthy.

anyway, i like to have their back sometimes because they've given me something far more than i hoped for. on top of that, so many of the negative posts on here look at things in bizarre absolutist and abstract ways, dissecting their views on righteousness, honour, integrity and all these other virtues. to me, those arguments are so far off the mark and so biased by individual perception and assumption that really its doing them a favour to put them in their place. sure its probably not my place to, but someone has to and i get bored.

this project kinda reminds me of the Black Mesa Source project. thankfully they run their own forums, rather than being born on one that originally did not belong to them, but they get endlessly harassed by people on the progress and things people think are right or wrong or they want to see or why its not all out yet, and yes there is no investment from people, but when there is damaging bullshit being spread, they neuter it or at least draw a line somewhere appropriate. here things get out of control and its just not fair. interestingly, on the black mesa boards, they decided that giving incremental news updates was damaging in itself as everyone picked it all apart and it turned nasty and really i see parallels here. it was a great idea when the project looked to have a short turnaround, but as things went on longer it got harder.

i think i've lost my thread... anyway, all this device making shit is hard yo, i don't envy those guys in any way but i'd go pretty far out of my way to help it stay alive. i cant code, but i can consume, appreciate, tell all my friends, and kick the asses of people being retarded :)
 
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moxie

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applauds RenegadeChic

Well said. I'll print that out and hang it on my wall as a mission statement :)
 

CPUnltd

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definitely has a "mission statement" feel to it. :D again, the name fits her well... :D In the end, I can't knock where you're coming from in the slightest, RenegadeChic... if for no other reason than the fact that I totally comprehend that peace sometimes needs a bit of violence to move forward... because if peace didn't, violence would constantly destroy it every time it cropped up. Violence is much easier to spread than peace, because human nature is to protect itself... and if someone violating another's ability to self protect comes up, violence is the fastest, most direct, and most message-sending way to proclaim your peace. "I'm over here minding my own business... LEAVE ME THE HELL ALONE!" :p But I think a key ingredient in "aggressive peace" is timing and moderation... intuitively knowing when the aggression is best served works to the benefit of all, because you get the general effect of a Golem in that you only strike when it's absolutely necessary... any other time, you're just there, doing whatever it is you do (even if that thing you're doing is waiting for the next chance to strike). But a lot of well-meaning people don't get that, and become the main aggressors in a "good vs evil" type of fight in an attempt to keep the peace and end up being the villain themselves... and feel betrayed because "all they were trying to do was help"... but lacking that intuitive balance, they went to far and lost the "faith" of those they were protecting. I'm somewhat over-dramatizing the scenario, but that's because I'm dealing in concepts more than actual happenings around here. Concepts may be more abstract than worth it sometimes, but usually tell the story well enough to get the point across. I guess I could be labeled as an "aggressive conceptualist" because I speak my peace based on concepts I've come to comprehend about how things do work, how things could work and how things should work (obviuosly in my own opinion :p). I also talk too much :p so I digress alot and sometimes veer off-topic. But I accept that and do what I do to fix it as I see fit. :D

This all is the long-winded way of saying, I agree with you, but you can't kick everybody's ass all the time. Eventually, the only one left to kick will be your own. :)

*insert Jim Carey: Liar Liar courthouse bathroom scene here* :D
 

aatu

Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
170
Location
Finland
@spaceballs3000:

Regarding the CE-conformity (yet again):

From your own link, http://www.ce-mag.com/archive/01/Spring/Dillingham.html :

"Testing under the R&TTE Directive no longer requires the involvement of an appropriately accredited test house. Manufacturers that are confident their measurements are accurate can declare compliance with the directive without third-party testing."


Also, from http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/single-market-goods/cemarking/faq/index_en.htm :

"Q: Are all CE marked products tested and approved by authorities?

A: No. In fact, the assessment of the conformity of the products with the legislative requirements applying to them is the sole responsibility of the manufacturer. The manufacturer affixes the CE marking and drafts the EC Declaration of Conformity. Only products which are regarded as presenting a high risk to the public interest, e.g. pressure vessels, lifts and certain machine tools, require conformity assessment by a third party, i.e. a notified body.
"


People have in previous threads already responded to you with similar answers. So could you either stop spreading the FUD, or at least address the matter? You're losing credibility.
 
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