Still Believe In Craig & Ed Despite The Recent Revalations


andmaz said:
Custom Processing Unlimite said:
bottom line:

-- If ANYBODY understands math on an algebraic level, more workers means exponential increase in production of ANYTHING. Can mean must more horsepower flat out, or a more efficient workforce (as was mentioned before by switching from 1-person/1-pandora to an assembly line method). Prove it yourself, carry buckets of water from one place to another with 3 people carrying back and forth then get 5 or 6 people and make a line passing the buckets from one end to the other... less work, more product. Scientific truth!

...but if 350 units per week can be assembled with 3 people and only 250 boards are available then no matter how many people you have the limit is 250 units a week. Does not matter that they can be assembled that weeks units in 1 day as what do they do for other 4! (iro building Pandoras and not Icontrolpads as we are on about Pandora production only).

Honestly that statement was way off the mark - down to Craig and or ED to confirm they are getting more than 350 boards a week from CC.
@CPU:WELL SAID RANT! ;)

@andmaz
What you are asking is 100% correct. I completly agree with your math.

So if all this issue has been made about needing more help, what is the logical conclusion? Their hiring more guys to circle jerk all day, and pay them wages? WTF? Maybe they want the same 3 people to double and triple check quality, and keep members happy with more solid units? Really, who the hell knows what is really happening? The fact is nothing changes currently knowing that information, or not knowing. You eithter take these guys at face value, or you don't. If you believe what they are saying, set back and wait for your unit to arrive. If you don't belive em, get a refund. PROBLEM SOLVED!

Chris
 
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Custom Processing Unlimite said:
ah... and about the queue position thing. The likelihood of their being a clear and concise list anywhere is probably very slim.

Only if their record keeping is done on post-it notes kept on the back of the toilet door. Otherwise everything is recorded on computer, with all the time & date information that entails. There are plenty of perfectly plausible reasons (from their persepctive) why they wouldn't want to make the list transparent.

Custom Processing Unlimite said:
Sony wouldn't put up with as much of this as they have. If you believe Sony is nicer than that, read about the court proceedings they have with the guy who broke their hardware security... (real nice bunch of folks, those Sony guys :p )

And why wouldn't they be upset? How many employees down the line would be directly and indirectly affected by rampant piracy? I love free stuff as much as the next guy, but their position is hardly incomprehensible.
FWIW I've dealt directly (and partied!) with Sony Computer Entertainment (as it was in the PS1/2 era) and (unlike Nintendo) they were generous to a fault, and much more 'flexible' behind the scenes than their up front rep would suggest. Nintendo were always the evil bastards.
 
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andmaz said:
........and we should have been given first refusal at upgrading to 7 days guaranteed although I know this may have been a logistical nightmare (but surely there is an Excel spreadsheet with everyones queue position, email address etc) - I manipulate/convert data as my day job and its not difficult once its in that type of format.

This is the one and only thing that I feel like should have been done differently.

But as for the rest of the huge outpouring of negativity that has gone on, quite frankly it's causing me to start to lose interest in the community once again. I stopped checking the boards on a regular basis a long time ago (because quite simply I couldn't take the whining about every misstep that the project has had and PandoraPress.net was enough for me to keep up - great job to that team, by the way!). Right now, the majority of new posts and threads are people flaming the team over the "premiums" and people trying to be rational and defend them.

I ordered on day one, within minutes of Craig's store going live. I still don't have my Pandora. It sucks. Plain and simple. That's all I have to say about it because everything else that I might say has been said. I understand the emotion, I do.

I do not understand the entitlement that a lot of the community feels towards knowing every intricate detail behind the financials of the project. The team has been very open with us regarding where they stand. Demanding exact financial figures is ridiculous. That is none of our business. This is both an open source project and a business. The open source part is not the business.

It's been great that we've gotten so much information from the team. In my opinion, they have been honest with us to a fault in that a lot of what they share (and possibly sometimes how things are worded or approached) has caused them unending criticism. I think they've done this because they feel that they owe it to the community to keep us in the loop since they did get our money up front. I appreciate that. But I also get annoyed by the "but I want my toy NOW" attitude that is propagating because of that.

Maybe it's because the majority of us don't have our Pandoras yet and so there's not much else to discuss, but dammit if it doesn't feel like the dead horse has been beaten down to its skeleton.

What it comes down to is trust. I trust the team. It's been slow, but people are getting their Pandoras. There's more than enough proof to show me that they've done everything they could to make this happen. I'm sorry that there has been so much negativity. I'm sure that for every negative post, it takes 10 positive ones to offset the emotional beating that the team surely takes. I hate that for you guys.

So to the whole team - and I think in particular EvilDragon for your constant and regular communication with us - I say that you've done a great job so far. Keep fighting the good fight. I support you and I believe in you. I certainly would have asked for my money back a long time ago had that not been true. Don't let the negativity get you down when you're so close to success.
 
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............honestly does anyone at all know for sure how many boards CC are sending Craig every week?

Need to know only to guestimate when mine is going to be sent which should not now be long but how long is that piece of string that no one can see?
 
David Bowman said:
I ordered on day one, within minutes of Craig's store going live. I still don't have my Pandora.


Last reports of a confirmed shipping email were up to 8pm on day 1, might be time to talk to them if that's the case.
 
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andmaz said:
...but if 350 units per week can be assembled with 3 people and only 250 boards are available then no matter how many people you have the limit is 250 units a week. Does not matter that they can be assembled that weeks units in 1 day as what do they do for other 4! (iro building Pandoras and not Icontrolpads as we are on about Pandora production only).

Honestly that statement was way off the mark - down to Craig and or ED to confirm they are getting more than 350 boards a week from CC.

Valid question... and it deserves a response. It's better to be ahead than behind. Also, if they, as a small group, are ahead of these big production companies producing these parts, it will look bad for the part mfgs... :p

But more importantly, it's better to be ahead than behind. It would cost less to hire extra people part time and get done early than to warehouse parts that haven't been "gotten to" yet because of slow device production. If they get all the parts built into Pandoras in 2 days vs 5, that means an extra 3 days off. If OPT is smart, they are paying their workers by completion vs by the hour, because people are more productive and can count their own money better when paid per completion. So it's more efficient in the long run.

Ex: If I paid you $10US/hr to produce say 4 devices/hr vs paying you $2.50US/device, then you (doing simple math) will realize that if you can produce 8 devices/hr, you will pay yourself $20US/hr vs $10US/hr. Also, if I note that I will dock you $.75/device for each defective completion that is proven to be caused by sloppy build work, you are less likely to slack on your work. If I, in an assembly line scenario, say that I will dock everybody that amount for each improperly built device, they will be more willing to work together to produce a better product as fast as possible, thereby being more efficient across the board and working as a team. Thought that could backfire and one person could be enough of a bastard to dock everybody's money, but the frequency of that will be VERY low since they lose money too. A pay-by-completion model raises productivity exponentially. Also, by-the-hour pay gives people an easy chance to slack off if not supervised (which costs more money because a supervisor needs to be hired along with a QA person, where the pay-by-completion model only needs a QA person). In one way, I pay more up-front when I pay-by-completion, but I also get more up-front on the product and can produce faster for a lower cost in the long run (less RMAs, higher customer satisfaction rates, better reviews, more sales, etc). But I digress, because this is more than is necessary to answer the question above. :p I was partially opportunistic enough to throw that idea out there in hopes that OPT either already uses it, or agrees and will switch to something similar that works for them. :D

In the end, it's better to be ahead and have rest time than be behind and get no rest. :p

Also, people can't blame the bottleneck on OPT! :D
 
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Asmo said:
David Bowman said:
I ordered on day one, within minutes of Craig's store going live. I still don't have my Pandora.


Last reports of a confirmed shipping email were up to 8pm on day 1, might be time to talk to them if that's the case.

I did get a shipping notice, but as it's coming from the UK and I'm in the US, I'm sure it's still in transit. I only said that to illustrate that I'm still waiting too. (Please don't flame me because mine has been shipped and I still have an opinion - and one that's not negative ;p)
 
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Asmo said:
David Bowman said:
I ordered on day one, within minutes of Craig's store going live. I still don't have my Pandora.


Last reports of a confirmed shipping email were up to 8pm on day 1, might be time to talk to them if that's the case.

Prime example of why the queue doesn't really matter... but I agree that an email asking what's up would be a good idea at this point. If nothing else, to make sure they remember you are there and can send yours out in a timely manner. I won't pretend like I know how (dis)organized their customer tracking information is, cause I'm not. But this does prove my point, and I agree with Asmo's response. Simple truth. :D
 
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Custom Processing Unlimite said:
Asmo said:
David Bowman said:
I ordered on day one, within minutes of Craig's store going live. I still don't have my Pandora.


Last reports of a confirmed shipping email were up to 8pm on day 1, might be time to talk to them if that's the case.

Prime example of why the queue doesn't really matter... but I agree that an email asking what's up would be a good idea at this point. If nothing else, to make sure they remember you are there and can send yours out in a timely manner. I won't pretend like I know how (dis)organized their customer tracking information is, cause I'm not. But this does prove my point, and I agree with Asmo's response. Simple truth. :D

Well, see my previous clarification above. I wouldn't take it as a prime example in that case.

My main point was that despite the fact that I'm still waiting, I too still believe in the team and their goals. I am a huge supporter of the open source movement (my current computer is a System76 laptop - they make awesome stuff!), and I will continue to spend my money supporting it whenever and wherever I can. Even with the setbacks that this project has faced, the team hasn't quit yet. I find that admirable.
 
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David Bowman said:
Well, see my previous clarification above. I wouldn't take it as a prime example in that case.

My main point was that despite the fact that I'm still waiting, I too still believe in the team and their goals. I am a huge supporter of the open source movement (my current computer is a System76 laptop - they make awesome stuff!), and I will continue to spend my money supporting it whenever and wherever I can. Even with the setbacks that this project has faced, the team hasn't quit yet. I find that admirable.

You are correct, sir... that was not your point to prove my statement, I used your statement as proof of my statement. But note that I do agree with your general FOSS beliefs and efforts (looking to start my own official Linux based business or two in the not-too-distant future, I am moreso a hobbyist that makes a little cash on the side via Linux...and, of course, puts some of my profit back into open-source efforts). I did not intend to taint your meaning with my own, but hope they can co-exist in their own individual instances. I have yet to buy into System76 though, as I am not a fan of *buntu and their efforts and System76 is a bit on the expensive side for me. I don't knock them for their choice of distro, as it's a good business decision... focus on what's popular. But I don't find Ubuntu as "good" as the masses, and I'm entitled to that. :p

But I digress. I do not wish to hijack this thread in that direction. :) I simply came to note that I agree with your larger message. :D
 
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Yeah, not to threadjack either, but I know *buntu doesn't appeal to everyone. I haven't found a distro that I like more, however. Also everything on my laptop just worked straight out of the box, including suspend to RAM and suspend to disk - something that I have largely failed at getting my previous laptops to accomplish under linux. Plus, they support and actively develop for their products which is a rarity in the linux world as there aren't many dedicated linux companies.

It was a personal choice to go with the more expensive System76, just as it was my personal choice to preorder a Pandora. I want both to succeed!
 
point taken and well stated, friend... and I can't negate your Ubuntu experience. At the end of the day, it's all about supporting open-source anyway. :D
 
Tripmonkey_uk said:
If people have stood by you for that long, do you really think that they would let the project fail because they want their Pandora first?


Oh, for f*cks sake...

Yes, obviously they would, because that is exactly what you are proposing here, ne? There is a fellow on the other board that also spouts the idea that it is better that we all go down in solidarity, than that we all succeed by dirtying ourselves with the idea of money.

Why wasn't this announced to the community? Well, as far as I saw it, it was. Not by a long time in advance, but the idea was bandied aboout a bit, and the link to the ordering page was first displayed on the other forum (As it would, since that's where the official stuff go). Why wasn't the community involved in the decision? Probably because this is what happens then - 50 pages of ill-informed flamefests. If things need to happen now, then it is not an option to wait for a forum discussion to reach conclusion. Why not take it out of the dev fund? Yeah, well, now that would really float, wouldn't it? If this kind of silliness is the result of getting money the honest way - i.e. actually selling things openly to people who pay - imagine the furore when it gets out that the evil Craig has been nicking money out of the childrens school trip money the dev fund?

"And where, oh where, will these boards come from" - Well, if you actually read what is posted in this thread, in response to your namecalling and shouting, you'd see EDs explanation: Currently, the boards are "stockpiling". There are more boards than can be put into Pandoras. The piles grow. Whilst the board 8 positions down in the 6th pile might rightfully be yours, all yours, that won't do much good unless someone actually builds it, right?

Which is fairly consistent with the reports on how many boards have been received and how many finished units has been shipped these last weeks. If you want to dive into the dark art of divining the future from leftover plastics, it must be fairly obvious that the numbers where skewing the other way now.

Now, the thing that makes me angry is this: All these things that you and other people are screaming on about - Where do these boards come from, how can I get my pandora in time, why are you doing this, yadda, yadda - All this information is available! Take two deep breaths, calm down so that you get some semblance of reading comprehension back, and go check the forums - It is there. Some things were not clear from the outset - The maximum of 100 wasn't, for instance - but it is there now. All the reasonable questions are answered. The ones that are left ar things like this:

"I don't care why they did it, it doesn't make it any less wrong."

Which really says it all - You don't care.

"Those boards were built for and paid for by the people who pre-ordered over 2 years ago"

...except that they weren't, and that is the problem that needs to be solved.

You do realise that this venture is at the tipping point now? That the alternative isn't to do things slowly and surely, but to pack up, go home and write it off as bust?
 
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Wow,just wow.

My only comment is this:

As you can see by my post count, I am a very casual poster/lurker/follower. I was lucky enough to get a one nubber and it has had it share of issues besides the nubs, the company (gbax, by the way) has been very responsive and professional to my situation, despite whatever circumstances that they found themselves in.

Even I saw the question asked by Craig BEFORE the ordering announcement came on the other boards.

Had I not had mine already, I would have paid to upgrade my order and I have, do and will in the future recommend this company and the Pandora to any and all that show interest, I love the product and have been treated extremely well for a customer with no (or negative) margin in a product sold.

I don't know about where some of you come from, but asking for a premium for quicker service/faster delivery is quite the norm where I come from.

Good luck all of you.
 
I've been waiting since the very beginning of this project, I ordered the day it went on sale, got mine a couple weeks ago. It's definitely worth the wait. Early adapters are kinda spoiled having to pay less because of the currency fluctuations, which was the main reason I never cancelled, I knew I'd end up paying more later.
 
Ok, so two halves here. One more specific to the specifics of the discussion, and the other to CPU, which is still (partly) on topic.

Grobi said:
I appreciate the creative efforts of the team to find funding to speed up the production.

What I don't like is the following:

It's hard to find out how many devices will be sold for $500 within 7 days. Was this number fixed anywhere? I also couldn't figure when the 7 day order period started or stopped and for what reason: sold out??? 7 days over???
The link to the order page is dead.

If the project wants to regain any credibility that was lost by bad communication policy or habit or manners, someone of OP team better defines right now:

- how many devices were sold for $500 and at what date?
- for how many of those devices the $500 were received by OP?
- how many of those paid devices are shipped as of today?

Before I hear of any of the happy $500-customers here in the forums, I have to believe this "7 day and you get what you paid for" is yet another smokescreen for missestimated production complexities.

grobi

I second all of these questions. And add on the question about specifically how many 7-dayers OPT will continue to sell, because:

WoD said:
I can't see how that can be the case. The most anyone can be delayed is 100 units, if they hold to the numbers and don't simply let thousands of people order an "instant Pandora."

What logic/evidence have you assessed to arrive at this conclusion? I haven't really been paying enough attention to the production process to work it out for myself.

OPT has never said that they *won't* sell more that 100 of them, just that they *might* not. Those were Craig's words, and we all know how those sometimes twist.



andmaz said:
Have to say that yesterday Tripmonkey_uk made some unfounded illogical comments however today, they are mostly well thought out and difficult to argue against (although people do).

......we are still in the dark as to how may boards CC are sending Craig every week (on average will do) - the 1000 per month, 250 a week that Ed did mention a while ago would blow the we cannot keep up to the boards issue Craig mentioned out of the water.

Craig must therefore be getting more than 350 boards a week from CC (3 people make 70/day * 5 = 350/week assembled) - if that is the case then the figures do add up but as per usual no one says anything and everything blows up - some of us are not stupid and know these figures make no sense with the available information.

Craig or ED just tell the community how many boards CC are sending - that way what you are saying regarding the queue jumpers does add up and benefits not only OPT but us as well - so everyone will be happish!

The queue jumpers are obviously a big thing to all of us even though most of us understand the business need surrounding the need for them.

........and we should have been given first refusal at upgrading to 7 days guaranteed although I know this may have been a logistical nightmare (but surely there is an Excel spreadsheet with everyones queue position, email address etc) - I manipulate/convert data as my day job and its not difficult once its in that type of format.


Again, I'm not sure about this. As Moxie points out:

Moxie said:
"And where, oh where, will these boards come from" - Well, if you actually read what is posted in this thread, in response to your namecalling and shouting, you'd see EDs explanation: Currently, the boards are "stockpiling". There are more boards than can be put into Pandoras. The piles grow. Whilst the board 8 positions down in the 6th pile might rightfully be yours, all yours, that won't do much good unless someone actually builds it, right?

Which is fairly consistent with the reports on how many boards have been received and how many finished units has been shipped these last weeks. If you want to dive into the dark art of divining the future from leftover plastics, it must be fairly obvious that the numbers where skewing the other way now.


ED did talk about stockpiling in this thread. But over in this thread ED said that they shipped more boards sooner, because they'd run out. Where's the stockpile?

Also, having done a number of excessive checks, I don't think that all the numbers are adding up right to being a surplus of boards.


--------------------------------------------

And the second half, to CPU:



Custom Processing Unlimite said:
-- If ANYBODY understands math on an algebraic level, more workers means exponential increase in production of ANYTHING. Can mean must more horsepower flat out, or a more efficient workforce (as was mentioned before by switching from 1-person/1-pandora to an assembly line method). Prove it yourself, carry buckets of water from one place to another with 3 people carrying back and forth then get 5 or 6 people and make a line passing the buckets from one end to the other... less work, more product. Scientific truth!

Actually, no. That would be a linear increase, not an exponential one. Twice the input, twice (or slightly more, in this case) the output. Exponential would be if you double the input, you get four times the output. (see here)

Custom Processing Unlimite said:
-- Profit is necessary for a business to survive, like food is necessary for a body to survive. If I use all my energy up and don't eat, I'll die. If they spend all their money up, the company will die... Simple math!

There are things such as non-profits. Now, of course, OPT isn't trying to be one, and so they do want some. But it's not strictly necessary.

Custom Processing Unlimite said:
Valid question... and it deserves a response. It's better to be ahead than behind. Also, if they, as a small group, are ahead of these big production companies producing these parts, it will look bad for the part mfgs... :p

But more importantly, it's better to be ahead than behind. It would cost less to hire extra people part time and get done early than to warehouse parts that haven't been "gotten to" yet because of slow device production. If they get all the parts built into Pandoras in 2 days vs 5, that means an extra 3 days off. If OPT is smart, they are paying their workers by completion vs by the hour, because people are more productive and can count their own money better when paid per completion. So it's more efficient in the long run.

Time off isn't the same as paid time off. So getting it done sooner is all well and good, but then you're out of a job again. Or, you could have just not accepted the work, and had all the days off. I agree that hourly is more efficent, though, which brings me to:

Custom Processing Unlimite said:
Ex: If I paid you $10US/hr to produce say 4 devices/hr vs paying you $2.50US/device, then you (doing simple math) will realize that if you can produce 8 devices/hr, you will pay yourself $20US/hr vs $10US/hr. Also, if I note that I will dock you $.75/device for each defective completion that is proven to be caused by sloppy build work, you are less likely to slack on your work. If I, in an assembly line scenario, say that I will dock everybody that amount for each improperly built device, they will be more willing to work together to produce a better product as fast as possible, thereby being more efficient across the board and working as a team. Thought that could backfire and one person could be enough of a bastard to dock everybody's money, but the frequency of that will be VERY low since they lose money too. A pay-by-completion model raises productivity exponentially. Also, by-the-hour pay gives people an easy chance to slack off if not supervised (which costs more money because a supervisor needs to be hired along with a QA person, where the pay-by-completion model only needs a QA person). In one way, I pay more up-front when I pay-by-completion, but I also get more up-front on the product and can produce faster for a lower cost in the long run (less RMAs, higher customer satisfaction rates, better reviews, more sales, etc). But I digress, because this is more than is necessary to answer the question above. :p I was partially opportunistic enough to throw that idea out there in hopes that OPT either already uses it, or agrees and will switch to something similar that works for them. :D

In the end, it's better to be ahead and have rest time than be behind and get no rest. :p

Also, people can't blame the bottleneck on OPT! :D

Your math is rather off there, since you change your numbers in the middle. Ignoring docks for defective completions, are you paying per hour, or per pandora produced? If by hour, 2 people x 10 hours is 20 man-hours, or if you pay 4 people x 5 hours, it's still 20 man-hours. In fact, if they can produce a little faster overall, there are then *savings*, not increased costs. If you're paying by the Pandora, then 100 Pandoras produced is 100 pandoras produced, and so the costs are the same, whether they're spread out over 4 people or 2. Sure, making the Pandoras faster is a higher upfront cost, but it's (roughly) the same dollar amount, either way.

We do agree, though, that being ahead is beneficial. On the other hand, it's still pretty unclear that OPT is behind, or at least not on schedule for completion of boards when new ones arrive. If that's the case, then speeding up the assembly doesn't really help the real bottleneck, and the purpose is unclear.
 
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Covering each point made in my direction...:

actually, I DID mean exponential... for it to be a 1:1 increase, what you would see is more people making whole pandora's themselves... what I mentioned was exponential because with more workers (as has been pointed out by a post either by Craig or ED, can't remember which at the moment, but leaning toward Craig) they could switch from individual workers making individual pandoras to an assembly line model where each person does smaller portions of work and, overall, produce more pandoras. Which is why 3 workers produced ~70 units while (in the example given in that post) 5 people would produce 150 units. That is not linear... 3^70 is less production than 5^150... a rough example if the numbers continued to increase would be 7^260, 9^400, 11^572... that is figured by only by the fact that production increase is about 7 units per worker going from 3 to 5. technically, we are both correct, as there would be a straight line if those predictions were graphed, but they are exponential because the two lines representing both figures (the workers and the units) would make a wedge vs parallel lines. And chances are, the more workers that are added, the higher the number of units per worker would increase due to less work needing to be done by each worker... why? less work means more productivity, simply due to easier tasks (or less tasks) speeding up each worker's efforts. Should be self-explanitory, but if you need me to explain, I'm long-winded enough to do the job. :D

Wrong... profits, of some type, are necessary for a business to survive. Show me a non-profit that grows, thrives and is worth a damn that has a break-even budget (or a negative budget) in donations and other sources of funding. When a non-profit has a bake sale, they make profits off the food so they can put it back into the organization. If increasing your money by doing things is NOT profit, then what is? Your idea is too generalized to back up on this one, friend. Money is necessary for Business... maybe a simpler fact than the one I pointed out before, but your efforts do earn a "nice try". (and that's not being sarcastic or offensive to you directly, it's just being honest.

You misread what I said. Pay by the unit is more efficient and less costly than pay by the hour... if for no other reason than the significant drop in the likelihood that workers would slack off or get lazy. Hourly is the worst of the two. And the time off wouldn't matter unless you were being lazy and elongating the work just to keep the flow of money going. You are NOW ripping off your boss and raising the cost of the product to fill your own pockets. Congrats... the customers will love you for that. With my overall example (where productivity would be the same hourly as it would be by the unit) You make the same amount of money in 5 days as you would/could in 2 - 3... how is that bad for ANYBODY? Would you rather make $300 in 5 days or 3? Do the math, 5 days = $60/day, 3 days = $100/day. still $300 a week either way. Where's the down side???

Again, you misunderstand... I said you'd pay more up-front, not more overall... if paying by the hour - a month's salary will be made in a month, if paying by the unit - a month's salary can be made in 2 or 3 weeks... given that model, with a constant in-flow of products to be worked on, the mfg could end up spending close to 2 times as much money in a month's time for production and end up with more than twice the product as the hourly option. Bottom line is instead of spending $1000 in labor for the month of Feb, they spent $2000... but they most likely get twice the number of finished units, if not more. I'm having a hard time simplifying this any more than I am... especially since most of what I said repeats itself slightly different each time to give a different perspective on the same concepts (as this response is proving)... you completely miscomprehended because I never said it would cost more per unit, as you seem to think I did.

Lastly, did you date the times when ED said they were almost out of units to build and when he said they were stockpiling? I am under the impression that you did not. I am also under the impression that the "almost out" statement came BEFORE the "stockpiling" statement. I could be wrong, and you can verify this if you'd like, as I enjoy being proven wrong when I am wrong. But to note contradictory statements without taking into account the time between them is obsurd. My apologies if this all seemed like a personal attack. My efforts here were moreso to defend my direct and simple statements... that most people seemed to have comprehended (or not been willing to speak up that they disagreed)... both which are assumptions on my behalf. :D and I am more than honest enough to admit that.

In the end, the only real bottleneck that could be there is production of the components... because whenever OPT gets a stockpile of parts, they can do the "instant pandora" marketing scheme all over again and hire more workers (or hire back those previous workers) to build the units. Its all about getting you what you bought and expect to receive, FASTER! I wonder if anyone factored in the fact that raising the price of the units was creating jobs for people (regardles of how long the term was, jobs are jobs) in a supposedly dying global economy... Wonder if anyone factored in the B2B relations they may be making with local Temp agencies... hmmm... I do wonder...

(disclaimer: this was NOT a personal attack. If I chose to personally attack anybody here I'd quite literally use a people search service, get on a plane [bus or train, depending on how far away from me you are] and Kung-Fu the crap out of you and whoever tried to save you from me at your front door [quite literally, as I know Kung Fu]... doing it over the internet is useless and a waste of EVERYBODY'S time. Mine for typing it, and everyone else's for reading it... disclaimer over! :p)
 
Custom Processing Unlimite said:
(disclaimer: this was NOT a personal attack. If I chose to personally attack anybody here I'd quite literally use a people search service, get on a plane [bus or train, depending on how far away from me you are] and Kung-Fu the crap out of you and whoever tried to save you from me at your front door [quite literally, as I know Kung Fu]... doing it over the internet is useless and a waste of EVERYBODY'S time. Mine for typing it, and everyone else's for reading it... disclaimer over! :p )

And then we'd get to read about you in the Obituary Column after you got shot to death on someones front porch.

Gun > Kung Fu

Yay for the Internet and mindless bragging. :)
 
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jonjandran said:
Custom Processing Unlimite said:
(disclaimer: this was NOT a personal attack. If I chose to personally attack anybody here I'd quite literally use a people search service, get on a plane [bus or train, depending on how far away from me you are] and Kung-Fu the crap out of you and whoever tried to save you from me at your front door [quite literally, as I know Kung Fu]... doing it over the internet is useless and a waste of EVERYBODY'S time. Mine for typing it, and everyone else's for reading it... disclaimer over! :p )

And then we'd get to read about you in the Obituary Column after you got shot to death on someones front porch.

Gun > Kung Fu

Yay for the Internet and mindless bragging. :)
Besides a true martial artist doesn't go around beating people up for kicks (bad pun). They use it for defense of themselves or loved ones, not for settling internet disputes or because someone gave them the bird. Even if one doesn't get shot for kicking the crap out of someone, lots of jail time is a strong possibility for battery. The defense "I crushed his skull because he called me an asshole" wouldn't stand up very well in court.
 
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depends on the situation... if I didn't seem threatening, you wouldn't pull a gun on me... if I know martial arts, it would be in your best interest to pull the gun on me from a distance (every art under the sun has plenty of disarming techniques)... but if you enter the situation with caution, gun will likely beat kung fu... if you don't, kung fu almost always beats gun... :p
 
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