SoC Poll - What's most important for you?

[Linux-SWAT]

There's not only a photograph, but also an interview:

"I'm Dr Nikolaus Schaller,

Retired, but still very well known
as the leading surgeon
in separating dev boards.

Six months ago,
I designed a never-seen operation
not separating any more but creating."
 

Dunno why, but i imagine you doing that in the basement of your isolated house.

 

[Mongo]

As long as the developers are not so closed-minded about the keyboard. The pandora's had issues layout-wise. Please try out a Sharp Zaurus and see what you think.

 

[EvilDragon]

I personally like the Pandora layout more then the one from the Sharp Zaurus.

You will most probably not see your personal dream-layout on the Pyra. That doesn't have anything to do with being closed-minded though - there were ENDLESS discussions about the Pandora layout. Different groups suggesting different layouts.

Basically, keys that can be important for coding are less important when writing stuff on the internet. Vim-users prefer a different layout than nano-users.

The trick is to find the best compromise between all of them.

That way, the keyboard will most probably not be perfect for everyone - but it won't be horrible for anyone as well.

Yes, we WILL discuss the keyboard layout at one time here - but don't expect your own personal layout to win

 

[slaeshjag]

At least Emacs users will be happy with four easily accessable modifiers on the shoulders. Now they only need to bring one set of pedals with them

 

[_wb_]

Yes, we WILL discuss the keyboard layout at one time here - but don't expect your own personal layout to win

How will the layout be discussed? Do we start from a given arrangement of keys and discuss how they should be labelled/mapped? Do we start from scratch and can we use whatever physical key layout (presumably satisfying certain constraints) ? Do we first discuss the physical keys, decide on their layout, and then discuss the labelling/mapping given the layout? Or do we have a mixed discussion?

I think it's probably best to first determine the physical layout of the keys themselves (since that has consequences for the hardware), and only when that is fixed, discuss the mappings (which is essentially a software thing). Do you still want community input on both, or only on the latter? (if the physical key layout is already determined and the case company is already designing a case for it, then obviously there's no point to have more discussions about that).

 

[EvilDragon]

The physical layout is already fixed, what we need to do is put the letters and symbols on the keymat

 

[_wb_]

The physical layout is already fixed, what we need to do is put the letters and symbols on the keymat

In that case, it would of course be useful if we would know the physical layout so we can discuss the labelling / mapping!

(I kind of understand that you may not want to open that, uh, Pandora's box , but it has to be done anyway so why not sooner rather than later?)

 

[slaeshjag]

The physical layout is already fixed, what we need to do is put the letters and symbols on the keymat

Aww. The dummy board layout looked as crap as the pandora one

 

[TrashyMG]

^ what is wrong with it?

 

[slaeshjag]

It means we will be stuck with yet another custom keyboard layout that makes it impossible to use a native one, you'll either have to start changing it or you'll have to use compose for very common keys.

One of many reasons that I absolutely *hate* typing anything but code on my pandora. It shouldn't take 6 presses to get the 5th most common key that I use...

 

[bzar]

It shouldn't take 6 presses to get the 5th most common key that I use...

Indeed

 

[EvilDragon]

The physical layout is already fixed, what we need to do is put the letters and symbols on the keymat

Aww. The dummy board layout looked as crap as the pandora one

And how would you improve that?

We put the maximum number of possible keys onto the PCB.

You can't put more keys on than you have space for - and less keys would make it even more complicated to create a better layout.

So what's it you wanted?

 

[klapse]

The pandora layout was quite good, much better than my n900. I would enjoy a picture of the keymat so I can make my own suggestion for a layout...

 

[Neelix]

And how would you improve that?

We put the maximum number of possible keys onto the PCB.

You can't put more keys on than you have space for - and less keys would make it even more complicated to create a better layout.

So what's it you wanted?

I disagree on the "maximum number of possible keys" point.

If you make each key just 1mm narrower (and keep the distance between keys the same) It will have little impact on usability, but all those 1mm's add up and you'll have room for an additional column of keys.

This would allow for much more flexibility when trying to find a layout that most people will find usable.

- Neelix

 

[EvilDragon]

No, that would make the keys too small. The size of the number keys should be the smallest to use, otherwise we'll reach the size of smartphone keys soon... And that's not comfortable for typing anymore.

 

[fusion_power]

And how would you improve that?

Just make the final PCB black and everything is fine.  B)

 

[Mongo]

I followed the Pandora from very early and was in the first coupke hundred to receive one. I am not so self-absorbed as to believe that my personal preference will be what is chosen. I simply remember - very well - how the discussion was handled at the time (to be fair it was Craig that was running this discussion) and it ended up being this is it so live with it.


I will say that bringing the numbers below the gaming controls is a huge leap forward. Other than that, it is very important to realise that the most critical keys are the modifiers: ctrl, alt, shift, and function. The layout needs to somehow be adjustable to put these either on the left or the right. Placing them on the right alienates the right-handed people.


I have watched lots of video of you using this keyboard Mr. EvilDragon sir, and the awkwardness shows through.


The rest of the keys are less critical.


PS- the Zaurus layout seems wierd at first but once you map the japanese keys properly it is quite good. I spent MANY typing both normal text and programming with it...as did many others.


Thanks

 

[Mongo]

Oh, and also the key "throw distance" was enormous on the pandora. Very tiresome after a short time.

 

[ShleeDragon]

The physical layout is already fixed, what we need to do is put the letters and symbols on the keymat

what's the layout? Let's get this party started!

 

[slaeshjag]

The physical layout is already fixed, what we need to do is put the letters and symbols on the keymat

Aww. The dummy board layout looked as crap as the pandora one

And how would you improve that?


We put the maximum number of possible keys onto the PCB.


You can't put more keys on than you have space for - and less keys would make it even more complicated to create a better layout.


So what's it you wanted?

That's a darn shame. I wanted a keyboard with a usable amount of keys. The pandora one has pretty much cut away everything right of P, L, M. As B-ZaR pointed out, in some languages, those are as important as, say, f is in English. Imagine using compose for every 'f'. It's just frustrating typing anything but short sentences on a pandora keyboard, because it feels like you're using the number keys on an old phone without T9.

But I guess I'll just map away Q, W, Z or some other less useful keys.