So Proper Video Out Is Hard To Implement On Pandora, Huh?

[hch]

VinylPusher,

the gaming aspect is just one of many. just read the front page of openpandora to get the picture.

now, a netbook is heavier than 2 lbs and 9" and up. netbooks are not pocketable! and mids and the like - just show me one with a full keyboard and even s-video out. see? it currently is the smallest usable general purpose computer. i guess there wouldn't be 4000 preorders for the gaming aspect alone.

 

[VinylPusher]

VinylPusher,

the gaming aspect is just one of many. just read the front page of openpandora to get the picture.

now, a netbook is heavier than 2 lbs and 9" and up. netbooks are not pocketable! and mids and the like - just show me one with a full keyboard and even s-video out. see? it currently is the smallest usable general purpose computer. i guess there wouldn't be 4000 preorders for the gaming aspect alone.

The feature list on Pandora's front page lists items relating mainly to gaming.

There are 4000 pre-orders because a lot of people, myself included, recognise a really great portable device capable of emulating many of the old consoles. A lot of people recognise that with OpenGL ES, SDL, a common hardware base, freely available creative tools and an OS based on something we all know and love, the Pandora is exceptionally easy to develop for. More people just see the Pandora as an exceptionally cool device.

It's not suited for netbook style usage patterns. The keyboard alone limits many of the tasks you can perform. That's not to say that the Pandora couldn't, with the right software, perform every task a netbook could, but it would take longer to do so due to input limitations.

When I get mine, I'll probably end up carrying it around most of the time. I'll use it as I would a PDA. Calendar, to-do, email, taking notes etc. That's not what I'm buying it for though. PDA functionality is a bonus. A good bonus, but I want it for the games. Portable Final Fantasy, Super Mario All Stars, R-Type, DoDonPachi (maybe... I haven't studied MAME compatability).

I also want to develop my own software apps and games. I like programming but I hate Windows programming. I come from the era of the Amiga, which I felt very compfrtable with when writing code. I'm too old now to learn the complexities of Windows, DirectX etc. I've tried and it just frustrated me. Developing for the Pandora seems a nice, straightforward process.

To bring this slightly back on-topic: S-Video out, even video out of any sort, isn't a 'need', it's merely a 'want'. Occasionally I may want to hook my Pandora to my downstairs TV or my monitor in my bedroom. It means I'll be plugging in a USB controller of some kind and probably a mouse and keyboard. Something of a novelty and certainly I wouldn't be using the Pandora in a conventional way. I can't think of anything I'd be doing with the Pandora that my existing laptop wouldn't be able to do 100 times better or faster.

 

[_VWV_]

I can't think of anything I'd be doing with the Pandora that my existing laptop wouldn't be able to do 100 times better or faster.

You don't seem to/don't want to understand the fact that your note book is a little bit less portable. Pandora has it all - it can perform almost any task + it's ultra portable. It's the combination of these two features that matters for me. I can't say I won't use gaming functionality, but let me assure you, it's the gaming controls that are just a bonus for me.
Believe me, there are a lot of people here who ordered one for netbook/UMPC/MID-replacement purposes. HDMI could have been a nice addition for these people. On the other hand I think it's somewhat useless for gaming as 1024x768 will cause additional load on hardware which may interfere with gaming itself.
EDIT: typo

 

[White Flame]

Believe me, there are a lot of people here who ordered one for netbook/UMPC/MID-replacement purposes. HDMI could have been a nice addition for these people.
nah, I'm buying it more for those purposes, and ssh & X redirection would easily suffice for that. For showing pics or videos or something, S-Video/composite output is perfectly fine, and many TVs have easily-accessible front video ports purely for portable devices.

 

[nubie]

but Chips post says I won't need it as he said the TV cable has both S-video and composite connections.

You also keep saying that nobody you know *uses* S-Video (for whatever reason), but that doesn't mean the connector isn't there.

No I made it quite clear. For whatever reason, I am 36, and have never owned nor have my relatives owned nor have my friends had any TV's with an S-video jack also no vcrs and especially never seen on on a DVD player and I'm about to throw away a couple more of them nope no jacks. I have hooked up many a video game system to each and every one of their sets over the years and none of them had them until my parents bought their 720p last year.
From what I have gathered in my reading today it was a better standard than composite but not nearly as used by the masses, more for the videophiles. The high end equipment had them for sure midrange may or may not and low range not for cost...add my personal opinion that certain Store chains may not push a format in a certain region based on how much people spend there and it seems I just was in a rather dead spot for S-Video...yes things had them...if someone had one years ago I may have missed it as no one I knew ever used it to connect to anything EVER. No matter how sophisticated their setup was. Most people in my area are going from composite now to component not HDMI cause they can use any RCA cables to hook that up while the local stores sell HDMI cables at ridiculous prices and for cable and satellite you have to upgrade to the HD boxes for HDMI to be an option...

Anyway I/m glad some of you have had S-video convenience while I have never seen it in use not even when I sold and setup TV/Home theater systems...it was as if no one even knew what it was.
And I'm done with this topic now...it has gone on too long. No amount of posts can change the fact the ports were just not there...


I am so sorry, but every DVD player I have ever seen that cost more than $30 new has S-Video. (I have two Apex's, Two Tevion's, a couple no-names, a pair of portable Audiovox 5", we used to have a Panasonic and a Toshiba, all with S-Video. The only one I ever had without S-Video was a $26 CyberHome.)

The Playstation had S-Video, as did numerous consoles. You just didn't know because it was in the proprietary connector and wasn't supplied on the cables you had.

Just because TV makers and consumers are cheap doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of S-Video TV's

As far as HDMI goes, I can't help it if the prices in stores are ridiculous, I buy cords at Monoprice.com, where they have a 4-way hdmi switch for $24 and cables for $10. I currently see no need for HDMI, I use DVI or VGA where possible (including my consoles, my Dreamcast and Xbox both run on VGA).

So you haven't seen any VHS players with S-Video? Really? Maybe that is because S-Video is for S-VHS players. CODE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-VHS



On the subject of HDCP, the Beagleboard does not have HDCP, it merely uses DVI over an HDMI connector (presumably because the connector is cheaper and smaller, as well as easier to connect while being rated for more cycles).

I am glad somebody made a BeagleBoard portable, but sad to see they used a PSP screen and didn't add any controls to speak of.

 

[VinylPusher]

I can't think of anything I'd be doing with the Pandora that my existing laptop wouldn't be able to do 100 times better or faster.

You don't seem to/don't want to understand the fact that your note book is a little bit less portable. Pandora has it all - it can perform almost any task + it's ultra portable. It's the combination of these two features that matters for me. I can't say I won't use gaming functionality, but let me assure you, it's the gaming controls that are just a bonus for me.
Believe me, there are a lot of people here who ordered one for netbook/UMPC/MID-replacement purposes. HDMI could have been a nice addition for these people. On the other hand I think it's somewhat useless for gaming as 1024x768 will cause additional load on hardware which may interfere with gaming itself.
EDIT: typo


I believe I do understand. I realise my 17", exceedingly heavy Dell is not going to beat the Pandora, a netbook nor even a large masonry block for portability!

I can also appreciate that for you, gaming on Pandora is secondary. I admit that for me, gaming is primary.

I think a point I was making (if indeed I had one) was that Pandora is a gaming device. Not because you or I say it is so, but because gaming is an original design goal. Many things come together to make that possible, such as a lean, tight OS which just happens to be Linux based which just happens to facilitate many general programming/computing tasks. Bonus for all. That this bonus becomes a primary selling feature for many... well, that's a bonus

I think that if you or I were to sit down with the aim of designing an OMAP netbook, it would look similar to the Pandora only in that it was a clamshell with a decent display. I'd question the need (versus the want) for touchscreen though. Certainly, I'd drop the analogue thumbsticks! If you wanted to game on our hypothetical OMAP netbook, you'd add an external controller. HDMI as standard though h34r:

 

[Alibobar]

Not sure if I should post this question here but:

What will the tv-out be? s-video or composite? I've seen both mentioned.

I'm guessing s-video and if so, will the devs make sure the driver includes switching between pal and ntsc? A lot of linux-drivers lack switching to pal for instance, which is a shame for any european players (since the main developers are actually from europe this is thus more an issue for the ntsc people I guess ..)

 

[_VWV_]

I believe I do understand. I realise my 17", exceedingly heavy Dell is not going to beat the Pandora, a netbook nor even a large masonry block for portability!

I can also appreciate that for you, gaming on Pandora is secondary. I admit that for me, gaming is primary.

I think a point I was making (if indeed I had one) was that Pandora is a gaming device. Not because you or I say it is so, but because gaming is an original design goal. Many things come together to make that possible, such as a lean, tight OS which just happens to be Linux based which just happens to facilitate many general programming/computing tasks. Bonus for all. That this bonus becomes a primary selling feature for many... well, that's a bonus

I think that if you or I were to sit down with the aim of designing an OMAP netbook, it would look similar to the Pandora only in that it was a clamshell with a decent display. I'd question the need (versus the want) for touchscreen though. Certainly, I'd drop the analogue thumbsticks! If you wanted to game on our hypothetical OMAP netbook, you'd add an external controller. HDMI as standard though h34r:



The same logic can be applied in support of the dark (non-gaming ) side. Nubs are the only game-oriented feature of Pandora - it's a bonus for those who buy it as general purpose mobile computer. .
The problem is: you need strong computational background to allow proper gaming. But once proper gaming is allowed - gentoo/ubuntu/whatever also becomes possible . Add a good screen (800x480 is not as important for gaming as it IS for UMPCing, IMHO - thus can be replaced for something cheaper, if we build a gaming-only system ) and a keyboard and you'll get a nearly to perfect mobile computer. The only feature that is not there is a high-res video out. Once again it can be fixed with a USB-to-VGA adapter. Any way Pandora will be equally good at both gaming and UMPCing

 

[mcobit]

Not sure if I should post this question here but:

What will the tv-out be? s-video or composite? I've seen both mentioned.

I'm guessing s-video and if so, will the devs make sure the driver includes switching between pal and ntsc? A lot of linux-drivers lack switching to pal for instance, which is a shame for any european players (since the main developers are actually from europe this is thus more an issue for the ntsc people I guess ..)

Both will be avaiable on the same cord as i recall.