So Proper Video Out Is Hard To Implement On Pandora, Huh?

[RavenX]

I think everybody agrees it's the only feature "missing" in Panda.

Many's the time I sit there on the metro on the way to/from work thinking "*sigh*... if only I could connect this pocket computer to the 58" plasma screen I always carry around with me".


I agree too, I think HDMI would be a silly feature on something like a Pandora, buggy DRM ladden interface that it is. I would like nice 800x600 S-Video to be sure (heard somewhere it was only 640x480 S-video) to hook up to my laptop's S-Video capture, but other than that I don't see the point.

Personally, I think a nice little camera would have been a good addition, but I understand price points as well, and will be happy to get what we got.

 

[sindbad]

I don't really get it. It's handheld that you may occasionally use to power a tv. If it did have digital output, it wouldn't be useful beyond 800x480 (games will assume it). Every single tv in existence has S-Video. S-Video is almost free to implement, but digital output isn't. Seems a very simple decision to me.

 

[Poem58]

I don't really get it. It's handheld that you may occasionally use to power a tv. If it did have digital output, it wouldn't be useful beyond 800x480 (games will assume it). Every single tv in existence has S-Video. S-Video is almost free to implement, but digital output isn't. Seems a very simple decision to me.

I just love this statement...where is everyone that S-video is on everything? I live in Ohio and of all my family and friends if they don't have at least a 720p panel...NOT one person has S-Video...just my immediate family alone has 4 grandparents 2 parents (of course) 5 aunts and uncles 15 cousins all of TV owning age and I have access to one TV with an S-video input (I will admit I may have missed 1, maybe 2 inputs as I haven't inspected EVERY TV they have just most)... almost every single one has a composite (a couple are pre video input days) and a few have components and most of these relatives have more than one TV each...so that's around 50 TV's..and that's not counting any of my friends TV's.I really have to wonder if it's the region..I used to work at a radio shack, I used to install TV's and I NEVER had ONE that was connected by S-Video...as a matter of fact most of our products didn't even have the jack...now it's been about 10 years...has this changed? Is it more common now and most people I know just happened to buy equipment without the jacks?
Ever since I have seen the question on this board I have asked people and most have never even heard of it...is it possible a whole state get left out..or was it just in high end equipment for so long and we all just bought cheap stuff? My last tube TV I bought 2 years ago a 25" flat screen SDTV had composite and even component and an ATSC tuner...no s-video....how is this yet everyone else has them!?
I'm not saying you all don't have them I just want to know how it's possible around here no one knows them or has them!? Keep in mind I have never seen anyone have ANYTHING connected via s-video how strange is that!?

the good news is it appears you guys know how to modify this to make it work in my composite jack....so when this is all said and done we'll see if it's something I can do...

 

[cb88]

@Poem58 don't forget s-video converts to RCA (I think you can also convert the singnals from the pandora to composite... not sure) ... and yeah you would be really hard pressed to find a TV made in the last 10 years without RCA too many game consoles have used it or S-video

 

[Poem58]

@Poem58 don't forget s-video converts to RCA (I think you can also convert the singnals from the pandora to composite... not sure) ... and yeah you would be really hard pressed to find a TV made in the last 10 years without RCA too many game consoles have used it or S-video

I understand this...but what I am confused about is being the tech geek I have been, how could S-video be so prolific and no one I ever knew really had or if they did ever used it? I actually believed for many years (before seeing people here say how many tv's have it) that it was some high end connector that was rarely used or a European or Japanese thing...until the Pandora and the mention of S-video out I have never owned a device that outputted (or input) S-video (aside from PC video capture card and still had nothing to connect to that)

It just confuses me how something supposed to be so widely available has eluded me all these years...by the way...since S-video can be converted to composite..will I need to buy an adapter..is it better to make one? Will there be any issues with loss of signal quality (not as in compared to S-video but like weak signal or muddy video)?

 

[Prometheus]

European

To my knowledge, S-Video never really took off over here because we have RGB SCART, which by my understanding is of higher quality again over S-Video. I, too, am baffled by the claims that S-Video is so widespread. :lol: (I still have yet to see a television set with an S-Video input at all.)

 

[Kimundi]

Acording to the OMAP specifications, the Video Output Hardware can nativly Output either Composite or S-Video Signals.

 

[cbox]

It would be hard to find a TV made in the past 5 years in the U.S. without S-video on it.

 

[Mutilator]

hdmi while its good and most newish tvs have them everyones tv works using the current method.

 

[Sphinxter]

Yes, thanks Chip, I see you've got it. For sure I agree with you it would be a complete mess to hijack video out in panda. There is now place in the current case.. I'm just disappointed it was not done during development. In this case we could have had a proper case with no wire mess with nice HDMI. I think everybody agrees it's the only feature "missing" in Panda.
It turned out to be relatively easy (the guy offers help for other people willing to repeat his experience) to make this mod - that's what deepens my disappointment.
Even if it's the same signal going to both converters, we still could have used HDMI (first one could disable the LCD then one could increase resolution and view the picture on a nice 1024x768 screen - just dreaming).
Edit: typo

I'm disappointed you still haven't figured out the devices fucking name.

 

[Awakening]

I have no use of HDMI or S-Video myself.

 

[_VWV_]

Once again I'm not an expert. When I saw the mod it seemed to me one would have to solder a few wires to implement HDMI. If it's not the case, as devs say, I'd agree we have to draw a line somewhere. And though high-res out is a nice feature (for mobile presentations etc), I can understand we have to stop somewhere. I also realize things won't change now, and seriously, I don't want them to change as I don't want more delays.
I was just a) asking for info just out of curiosity and b ) was shearing my disappointment with people.

By the way, I have few pieces of advice for those who gone mad upon waiting for Panda. I strongly advise either to chill out or to take some relaxing pills or simply to kill themselves.. quietly, so that not to disturb those who try to keep calm. Seriously.

 

[sketch3r]

My GoD! Has it come to this, I really like watching this development cycle and am totally into Pandora (oo-er). Do we really need to have a discussion about what a near completed project has or hasn't got? ffs! The specs are there for all to see, I for one want it bad, and am quite happy it dosn't come with Octo=core, quad Sli gfx, 1TB of ram yadda yadda yadda. If you want to procrastinate then download some porn and feel at home with yourself. Chip and ED I'm really surprised you gave this question the time of day.

Peace Out

 

[MWeston]

The reason for the lack of a digital video output is simply a matter of cost. Craig made up a price for Pandora long before we even had the first prototype so we already had a price point to meet.

Adding digital video requires a converter chip, another power supply (none currently available inside that provide the voltage and current these framers/converters need), possibly another PCB layer (well two since pairs are more common) and a lot more engineering time on my part to match lengths, prevent stubs and move things around to make things fit. That TI framer the Beagleboard uses is a monster! I think it was sized more for set top boxes where lowered assembly complexity wins out over size.

Comparing Pandora to that Beagle MID isn't really fair. Would you really want to open up your Pandora and find that mess inside? It's easy to rig up a prototype like that, especially since he is using a Rev C board with a breakout header, but things get more complicated if you want a clean and professional design that people would buy.

 

[sindbad]

I don''t really get it. It''s handheld that you may occasionally use to power a tv. If it did have digital output, it wouldn''t be useful beyond 800x480 (games will assume it). Every single tv in existence has S-Video. S-Video is almost free to implement, but digital output isn''t. Seems a very simple decision to me.

I just love this statement...where is everyone that S-video is on everything? I live in Ohio and of all my family and friends if they don't have at least a 720p panel...NOT one person has S-Video...[snip]

the good news is it appears you guys know how to modify this to make it work in my composite jack....so when this is all said and done we'll see if it's something I can do...Sorry, I just assumed it's the same everywhere, not just Europe. Every single TV set I've seen that had more than just SCART and coax had S-Video.

Anyway, it's very simple to convert S-Video to Composite, adapters are easy enough to find or even make. There are even some stuff to covert the signal to SCART, which really is everywhere (in fact, many devices can use an S-Video signal sent over a SCART connector).

 

[Chip]

Once again I'm not an expert. When I saw the mod it seemed to me one would have to solder a few wires to implement HDMI. If it's not the case, as devs say, I'd agree we have to draw a line somewhere.
Did you even look at the pictures? It's not just "a few wires". It's a minimum of about 30 (just for the video signal), and you need to be pretty careful about line length and interference. I've told you multiple times that it would have been prohibitively difficult and costly and would have added to the size of the Pandora. It is not worth the trouble for a portable, handheld device. If you need something that will be sitting on a desk and plugged into a TV or monitor, don't get a Pandora. Get a Beagleboard instead.


@Poem58: With all due respect, your family owns crappy AV equipment. Every mid-to-high end TV made in the last 25 years (sold in the US) has an S-video jack. One of the quickest ways to tell if a TV is decent or not is to look for S-video. I worked at a TV/VCR repair shop for a couple years in the late 90s and saw literally thousands of TVs (inside and out). I can say with absolute certainty that all decent TVs and VCRs always have an S-video jack. Now, it's hard to find a flat panel TV or DVD player that doesn't have S-video. It's kind of a waste though, as they all have component jacks as well, and that's much better.

It's pretty much irrelevant though, since the Pandora AV cable has both composite and S-video connections.

 

[MWeston]

you need to be pretty careful about line length and interference.

That's a good point. The PSP LCD (well 480x272) is clocked at 9MHz. The Pandora LCD needs 33MHz (currently 36MHz while we figure out some tweaked PLL settings). 800x480 is getting into the range where long cable lengths like the Beagle MID should be changed from the parallel interface to LVDS (that's if it had a WVGA panel which it doesn't).

 

[noisome]

...as a matter of fact most of our products didn't even have the jack...now it's been about 10 years...has this changed? Is it more common now and most people I know just happened to buy equipment without the jacks?

I think its the last part of your statement that is probably true. I am just the opposite. Everyone I know, I work with, even my parents with an old tv, and who has bought several within the past 10 years, have an S-Video jack. I have and my parents have used S-video (although I don't need to currently until I get the Pandora) to watch DVDs, and a computer hooked up. My parents still have an SD television, low end and it most certainly has an S-Video port. I have ATI cards that use S-Video as well.

So just because you haven't seen it, doesn't make it such a ridiculous statement, although "All blanket statements are false, including this one." can be used here.


Noisome

PS. why doesn't someone fix the retarded quotation/apostrophe problem?

 

[Exophase]

Every mid-to-high end TV made in the last 25 years (sold in the US) has an S-video jack.

Not to nit-pick too much but that's a gross exaggeration. S-Video didn't even exist until 22 years ago and it definitely didn't catch on as a TV standard that quickly. I don't think it really started appearing on decent TVs across the board until the mid-late 90s.

 

[hobbyman II]

if you nip down your local pound shop/discount store, you can buy a scart to s-video adaptor for a few bob, I have one included in a set that has composite/svideo/audio left/right/ scart and a switch that somehow defeats most macrovision protection as well as inverting the vblank signal so you can back up your old video tapes even though they are ntsc or pal, cost me £7 in a pack with a bundle of cables and adaptors, (made in China....natch)

should be easy to find something like that on the interweb