Sleep - How many hours are you getting?

[FaeMinx]

Yes, life is for living. That is the point.


Yes, living will kill you one way or another... that is also the point.


If you are going to drink coffee, be a playboy, PLAY VIDEO GAMES... just enjoy it dammit.


If you are going to purify yourself, meditate, be super healthy... just enjoy it dammit.

 

[Saber]

, the repercussions from years of imbibing this stuff for the taste could be untraceable yet profound, but as I said before, it's your life, to live rationally or irrationally.

Again, I'm questioning the lack of evidence. Are people dying earlier because of coffee intake ? Actually, NO. Never ever demonstrated in any kind of study so far. Inflammation, maybe, but does not mean it's clinically relevant, again (you did not answer that point).

Do you know that bananas are radioactive because they contain usually an isotope of potassium ? Do you stop eating bananas & do you believe that any amount of radioactivity is bad for you and that we should all live under the ground to avoid cosmic rays ?

Come on.

And oh, don't take your car to go anywhere, you have a lot more chance of dying by driving than by drinking coffee for the rest of your life.

The immune system looks at the coffee proteins as an antigen and creates an antibody for it, rallying the troops against this invader. The system deals with this intruder and goes back to a normal rested state but soon after more of this java is poured down the gullet and the army is callled back into action. A battle ensues and again the invader is vanquished but not without collateral damage to both localized and non-localized cells and the sealed junctions between them.

This all is repeated again over time until another seemingly harmless protein, which shares a similar amino acid sequence portion in it's chain to the processed denatured coffee protein(or an allergenic contaminant like mold in the coffee), results in the mobilization of the troops yet again. Even more collateral damage occurs until more contacted substances are viewed as a danger by the body. Over time, a response has been called so often, extensive damage has accrued(and malnourishment), and the immune system so exhausted now that healthy tissue is now viewed as a threat.

This is the origin of every disease(diabetes, MS, bipolar, renal failure, cancer) predetermined by where that individual's genetic weak link resides. 

Now go find out more on your own. 

 

[_jr_]

Actually, since ekianjo seems to be working in that line of business he most probably already knows enough about that. I hate coffee, but still you haven't shown a study that shows shortened life expectancy or lowered quality of life for coffee drinkers.

 

[TrashyMG]

If I had to choose between a life without coffee and one were there could be a small chance to potentially be seriously ill, I will take Coffee every time.

 

[ekianjo]

Over time, a response has been called so often, extensive damage has accrued(and malnourishment), and the immune system so exhausted now that healthy tissue is now viewed as a threat.

Ok, but you still have not shown any actual real world data answering my criticism of your rationale up until now : there is no study indicating whatsoever loss of years of life due to coffee.

It's not like alcohol or tobacco where repeated used is clearly linked with an increased cancer risk and increased mortality.

So, instead of coming up with paper explanations as to where the inflammation comes from, please provide data showing the toxicity of long-term use of coffee. I'm waiting.

In the meantime, there is growing body of evidence/real world data showing that coffee-drinking is linked to reduced Type-2 diabetes risk, reduced strokes, reduced Alzheimer risk. So if it did create so much inflammation, I am wondering where the hell all these benefits seem to come from.

 

[Saber]

Over time, a response has been called so often, extensive damage has accrued(and malnourishment), and the immune system so exhausted now that healthy tissue is now viewed as a threat.

Ok, but you still have not shown any actual real world data answering my criticism of your rationale up until now : there is no study indicating whatsoever loss of years of life due to coffee.

It's not like alcohol or tobacco where repeated used is clearly linked with an increased cancer risk and increased mortality.

So, instead of coming up with paper explanations as to where the inflammation comes from, please provide data showing the toxicity of long-term use of coffee. I'm waiting.

In the meantime, there is growing body of evidence/real world data showing that coffee-drinking is linked to reduced Type-2 diabetes risk, reduced strokes, reduced Alzheimer risk. So if it did create so much inflammation, I am wondering where the hell all these benefits seem to come from.

Clearly you want to drink coffee so gulp it down if you like but the diseases I mentioned do reduce the quality of or shorten a person's life, and there is an apparent risk involved with consuming this beverage due to the antigenic response mentioned in the linked study I posted before, which should ring in your ears to tread cautiously here, if you don't want to bring about or exasperate future health problems.

If you need more convincing to reduce intake, well, it's as I said you are on your own if it's worth it to you to discover. Although I like the taste, I drink coffee very rarely, but I also eat very healthy and exercise almost daily so it's consumption doesn't influence me personally, beyond what I felt like sharing motivational wise.     

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

Coffee is becoming increasingly unhealthy for my wallet. Its not cheap.

Of course it's best to avoid starbucks, gloria jeans and costa. Expensive and poor coffe.

Go to a proper Italian joint and it's cheaper and nicer and properly done.

It's amazing how much talk there is about Starbucks, Obviously it's the result of endless marketing because the coffee is shit and expensive shit at that.

It's actually worse than Gloria Jeans and Costa. After all the hype I actually expected really good coffees and some interesting flavours etc.

Nope, same old shit. Slow service and shitbiscuits!

 

[ekianjo]

Its not cheap.

If you buy your own beans and brew your coffee at home it costs close to nothing.  

with consuming this beverage due to the antigenic response mentioned in the linked study I posted before, which should ring in your ears to tread cautiously here, if you don't want to bring about or exasperate future health problems.

It's amazing how you keep avoiding my point over and OVER again.

There is no study showing that people die earlier because of consuming coffee or have more RA, PS or cancers because of coffee consumption. So are you disputing that ? YES OR NO ?  

 

[illegalinstruction15]

I chose 4, sometimes, it's really more like 2.  I'll start worrying about sleep once my current project is done...

 

[Saber]

Its not cheap.

If you buy your own beans and brew your coffee at home it costs close to nothing.  

with consuming this beverage due to the antigenic response mentioned in the linked study I posted before, which should ring in your ears to tread cautiously here, if you don't want to bring about or exasperate future health problems.

It's amazing how you keep avoiding my point over and OVER again.

There is no study showing that people die earlier because of consuming coffee or have more RA, PS or cancers because of coffee consumption. So are you disputing that ? YES OR NO ?  

What's amazing is how you keep asking even after been told it's, due to stimulation of the immune system(in healthy people), possibly a contributory factor to a future diseased state, but like a child who hasn't gotten his way continues to bleat. <_<

This part:

Spoiler

"In the present work, we report a positive association between coffee consumption and IL-6 concentrations. It could be hypothesized that coffee increases IL-6 synthesis, which then affects CRP and SAA production in the liver. TNF is also involved in the acute-phase protein synthesis, but it was suggested that only IL-6 can stimulate synthesis of all acute-phase proteins involved in the inflammatory response—namely CRP, SAA, fibrinogen, and others (23). Although it was suggested previously that the production of TNF-α, IL-1, and IL-6 might be beneficial in response to infection, overproduction that can occur as a result of an inflammatory response might have pathologic implications (24).

Note that the association observed in the present study between coffee consumption and the inflammatory markers was linear, reaching statistical significance only when >200 mL coffee/d was consumed. Coffee intake of 200 mL represents ≈1 cup; therefore, the results presented here suggest that the increase in the inflammatory markers could be evident even with 2 cups coffee/d."

 

[TrashyMG]

Has that study been peer reviewed?

 

[ekianjo]

Its not cheap.

If you buy your own beans and brew your coffee at home it costs close to nothing.  

with consuming this beverage due to the antigenic response mentioned in the linked study I posted before, which should ring in your ears to tread cautiously here, if you don't want to bring about or exasperate future health problems.

It's amazing how you keep avoiding my point over and OVER again.

There is no study showing that people die earlier because of consuming coffee or have more RA, PS or cancers because of coffee consumption. So are you disputing that ? YES OR NO ?  

What's amazing is how you keep asking even after been told it's, due to stimulation of the immune system(in healthy people), possibly a contributory factor to a future diseased state, but like a child who hasn't gotten his way continues to bleat. <_<

This part:

Spoiler

"In the present work, we report a positive association between coffee consumption and IL-6 concentrations. It could be hypothesized that coffee increases IL-6 synthesis, which then affects CRP and SAA production in the liver. TNF is also involved in the acute-phase protein synthesis, but it was suggested that only IL-6 can stimulate synthesis of all acute-phase proteins involved in the inflammatory response—namely CRP, SAA, fibrinogen, and others (23). Although it was suggested previously that the production of TNF-α, IL-1, and IL-6 might be beneficial in response to infection, overproduction that can occur as a result of an inflammatory response might have pathologic implications (24).

Note that the association observed in the present study between coffee consumption and the inflammatory markers was linear, reaching statistical significance only when >200 mL coffee/d was consumed. Coffee intake of 200 mL represents ≈1 cup; therefore, the results presented here suggest that the increase in the inflammatory markers could be evident even with 2 cups coffee/d."

Hello !?

You really don't get anything of what I said. Let me do it bullet point style to make it easy for your thought process:

• Your study shows potential of inflammation. All right. I asked you what is the clinical relevance? you have no answer whatsoever. You just keep rehashing the Attica conclusion that i have already read and asked the same question before. I assume you know the meaning of clinical relevance? There are bunch of markers you can trace in your body that go up and down (like cholesterol HDL or LDL, blood glucose, TNF-alphas, CRF), but there is not always a significant clinical link to it - meaning you don't always get sick even if those markers show some variation. So ?
• Your study does not demonstrate any pathology derived from coffee consumption. Inflammation is caused by a number of food items eaten as well, yet your body can deal with it. Just like we can also deal with some level of radioactivity, air pollution and shite like that.
• All observational studies so far show that there are no deleterious effects to coffee consumption. That's the best evidence we have that coffee drinkers do not get more cancers, auto immune diseases or any other grave disease that could be linked to inflammation, at least not more than non-coffee drinkers. That makes your ATTICA study look very weak in terms of what you can conclude with it.
• If you don't have any other data to share, just say that you don't know and the data you show is inconclusive. That's all you SHOULD say at this stage.

If the only thing you have on the table is your ATTICA study, please stop arguing, really. It proves NOTHING.

 

[Saber]

Its not cheap.

If you buy your own beans and brew your coffee at home it costs close to nothing.  

with consuming this beverage due to the antigenic response mentioned in the linked study I posted before, which should ring in your ears to tread cautiously here, if you don't want to bring about or exasperate future health problems.

It's amazing how you keep avoiding my point over and OVER again.

There is no study showing that people die earlier because of consuming coffee or have more RA, PS or cancers because of coffee consumption. So are you disputing that ? YES OR NO ?  

What's amazing is how you keep asking even after been told it's, due to stimulation of the immune system(in healthy people), possibly a contributory factor to a future diseased state, but like a child who hasn't gotten his way continues to bleat. <_<

This part:

Spoiler

"In the present work, we report a positive association between coffee consumption and IL-6 concentrations. It could be hypothesized that coffee increases IL-6 synthesis, which then affects CRP and SAA production in the liver. TNF is also involved in the acute-phase protein synthesis, but it was suggested that only IL-6 can stimulate synthesis of all acute-phase proteins involved in the inflammatory response—namely CRP, SAA, fibrinogen, and others (23). Although it was suggested previously that the production of TNF-α, IL-1, and IL-6 might be beneficial in response to infection, overproduction that can occur as a result of an inflammatory response might have pathologic implications (24).

Note that the association observed in the present study between coffee consumption and the inflammatory markers was linear, reaching statistical significance only when >200 mL coffee/d was consumed. Coffee intake of 200 mL represents ≈1 cup; therefore, the results presented here suggest that the increase in the inflammatory markers could be evident even with 2 cups coffee/d."

Spoiler

Hello !?

You really don't get anything of what I said. Let me do it bullet point style to make it easy for your thought process:

• Your study shows potential of inflammation. All right. I asked you what is the clinical relevance? you have no answer whatsoever. You just keep rehashing the Attica conclusion that i have already read and asked the same question before. I assume you know the meaning of clinical relevance? There are bunch of markers you can trace in your body that go up and down (like cholesterol HDL or LDL, blood glucose, TNF-alphas, CRF), but there is not always a significant clinical link to it - meaning you don't always get sick even if those markers show some variation. So ?
• Your study does not demonstrate any pathology derived from coffee consumption. Inflammation is caused by a number of food items eaten as well, yet your body can deal with it. Just like we can also deal with some level of radioactivity, air pollution and shite like that.
• All observational studies so far show that there are no deleterious effects to coffee consumption. That's the best evidence we have that coffee drinkers do not get more cancers, auto immune diseases or any other grave disease that could be linked to inflammation, at least not more than non-coffee drinkers. That makes your ATTICA study look very weak in terms of what you can conclude with it.
• If you don't have any other data to share, just say that you don't know and the data you show is inconclusive. That's all you SHOULD say at this stage.

If the only thing you have on the table is your ATTICA study, please stop arguing, really. It proves NOTHING.



Arguing? Not at all, but you seem to be getting worked up into a lather about it posting more rebuttals. I heard meditation can help calm the nerves, though I don't know of any studies proving this 100%.    

 

[FaeMinx]

The god of consequences will smite you all! You ALL!!!


... with .... with...


CONSEQUENCES!!


"... er... what consequences?"


DON'T BOTHER ME WITH TRIVIALITIES MORTAL!!!

 

[KickAss]

"who let the trolls out? who? who? who?!"


@ekianjo: you could as well just stop feeding it

 

[Saber]

"who let the trolls out? who? who? who?!"


@ekianjo: you could as well just stop feeding it

Despite your obviously gifted wit, I don't think ekanjo wants to bromance with you. Sorry. 

For the sharper among you guys, whether you believe completely in the results of the study I linked or think they are fabricated for some agenda isn't what's important here, but what is is that excessive inflammation is bad. I think we can all agree here on this. The body only has a limited capacity to deal with it, and we do need some to function(it's metabolically unavoidable anyways), but too much will overwhelm the ability to compensate for it, which means you could end up with issues down the road.

Occasionally having a cup of java is not dangerous but you should keep the rest of your lifestyle clean by eating healthy, exercising often, and getting adequate sleep hours in instead of staying up past the twilight hours. This is good advice under any circumstance, but to verify if things may need to change, observe whether you're by nature or personality a jittery or manic type of individual, moody, irritable, depressive, and/or have zero energy upon rising in the morning before you've brewed. If none of those describe you too often and aren't your normal waking state then you're good to go. Have some cheescake to go with it. 

 

[FaeMinx]

Hey hey. I'm good to go!


Bring it on god of consequences!


DON'T MOCK ME!!! .... I'm sensitive and need to feel important....

 

[Klumpen]

Hey hey. I'm good to go!


Bring it on god of consequences!


DON'T MOCK ME!!! .... I'm sensitive and need to feel important....

I'm living so clean, that those sXe guys are quite filthy compared to me and am trying to keep my life as stress-free as possible.

Hopefully the god of consequences will at least let me age well before he lets me get killed by some stupid car driver on too much caffeine.

 

[FaeMinx]

Hey hey. I'm good to go!


Bring it on god of consequences!


DON'T MOCK ME!!! .... I'm sensitive and need to feel important....

I'm living so clean, that those sXe guys are quite filthy compared to me and am trying to keep my life as stress-free as possible.


Hopefully the god of consequences will at least let me age well before he lets me get killed by some stupid car-driver on too much caffeine.

I WILL SMITE YOU WITH AGING WELL MORTAL!!! ... or maybe... A BUNNY!!!

 

[Nintendo]

Alrighty people, this ver. 2.0 thread has run it's course...I'm gonna have to lock this one up now.

Locked


EDIT: Oh wait! That's right I'm no longer a mod on these boards!