Skip OMAP4 and go directly to OMAP5?


second exodous

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Craigix linked this through twitter and it looks like a better goal for Pandora2 than the OMAP4. If I remember correctly they want to release every two years, I AM NOT PART OF THE OP TEAM SO I SAID I THINK, don't want to start any rumors. Anyway, this would be a good goal for two years as it won't be out until then. Sounds like a better step than the OMAP4 anyway.
 
Yeah, I agree, but if they can get their hands(and their developers) on one when they ship out samples they might have a better chance of having more ironed out by manufacturing time. which I'm not sure if they're big enough, I think it was said if they wanted OMAP4 a while back to tinker with it cost an arm and a leg.


Yeah, logically what is there at the time and how much it costs will determine what Pandora2 is. I guess you'd now better than me Pickle :p
 
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It would be pretty bad ass if they could just make the PCB as an upgrade option. Everything else can stay the same for all I care on the case.
 
First I wouldn't be so sure that OMAP5 is going to be a great idea for a handheld, even if TI is advertising it for phones. Hell, I'm not even certain OMAP4 will be, although we kind of have to take what we can get with that one. But I'm skeptical that Cortex-A15 will have anywhere close to the mW/MHz rating that A8 or A9 do, even when going from 45nm to 28nm. Even with the improved performance per cycle I expect the total perf/watt to still be worse. You just can't do a CPU which isn't terribly far off from K10 level of design and not pay for power consumption at all.


Pandora does get a bit of a pass on this since it uses such a huge battery - I for one think that half the battery life for an OMAP5 would be a fair trade, but I'm not sure everyone else would agree.


More to the point, I think OMAP5 is too far off. TI may expect something to launch with it in 2H 2012, but I'm skeptical. They did say that there'd be a phone with OMAP4 in 2010.. they'll be lucky to be under half a year off on that. Meanwhile OMAP4 availability, or at least for anything public and small scale (like Pandaboard) doesn't look good at all; even DM3730 has availability problems. So I'd say it's optimistic to expect an OMAP5 Pandora to be theoretically possible in H1 2013. And probably slowly from there on out.


Craigix did say 2 year cycle for Pandora but that had to have been in 2008 or so; right now it has been about 2.5 years from when Pandora was supposed to be out. I don't think waiting another > 2 years from NOW would be good. IMO OP should be trying to get something better than the current Pandora out after batch 3, ideally by the start of 2012. The longer they wait the worse things will look, but moreover, the easier it'll be for someone else to steal the market from underneath them.
 
I am also doubtful you will see this chip in 2012, apart from maybe in a custom device made by someone like Blackberry, who have the contacts to get their hands on the chips very very early.


I suppose if we did go for it we could always cram a 5000mAh battery in there :)


One thing is for sure though - you are seeing the beginning of the end of X86. Intel must be calling an emergency meeting after seeing specs like that in comparison to their Atom series. I don't know why they don't just licence ARM chips and start making their own. They could take over the market within a couple of years.


Equally Microsoft must be coming to terms with it all too. Their thousands of X86 programs are meaning less and less now, out dated and superior software appearing on phones!


A lot of very old bridges are going to be burned in the next few years over this. What fun it's going to be to watch!
 
I've thought that for a while also, when a Beagle Board can do all the basic computing tasks that most users would want to do with a few watts of power when an Atom uses multiple times that and at a slightly slower pace then something is up.


OLPC is switching to ARM and their sugar OS is actually faster on ARM than it was on x86 using more power.


This is why Pandora2 needs a nice digital output, I'd use it as my main PC at home it if could output 1080p(the rez of my 24" monitor).
 
I was hoping MS would miss the boat with ARM - like they almost did with the internet!!!


seven versions of an OS and it still isn't right - glad I don't have to use it..... glad it has a working jre so I can use an OS to develop software that doesn't *thrash* my harddrive - I digress...


I would imagine once MS get the ARM version of windows working - a great deal of their software will follow rather quickly including junk like C# (shudder)


We can only hope that when people compare windows and other options on more modest platforms they will see how inefficient microsoft written software is.


So alas I don't think ARM is going to dent the jugernaught - but its great that a UK company designs one of the best CPU families :D
 
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they will see how inefficient microsoft written software is.
There's no real reason to conserve memory when RAM is cheap.


Power consumption is the reason I think will be the driving point in the years to come.


MS has already asked Intel to develop a multicore version of their Atom processor running server OS:es. And Windows 8 will be available for ARM processors.
 
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they will see how inefficient microsoft written software is.
There's no real reason to conserve memory when RAM is cheap.


Power consumption is the reason I think will be the driving point in the years to come.


MS has already asked Intel to develop a multicore version of their Atom processor running server OS:es. And Windows 8 will be available for ARM processors.
Me thinks he was talking about power consumption and not windows memory usage. Plus the more memory you use the more power it uses so to have a low power system you need to not go crazy on the memory.
 
Like it or not, MS is the only company currently setup to handle all UI experiences. They've got WP7 for touch NUI, KB&M for 2FT UX and Kinect for 10ft NUI. They have this now. By next year when Windows goes ARM, it will allow MS the ability to shed all of it's legacy crap that it had to hold onto.


If they can nail the transforming UI (and that's a very big IF) MS will once again dominate the OS market.
 
I would imagine once MS get the ARM version of windows working - a great deal of their software will follow rather quickly including junk like C# (shudder)
C# and really anything .NET already runs on ARM. We've got a few .NET applications in PND form.
 
One thing is for sure though - you are seeing the beginning of the end of X86. Intel must be calling an emergency meeting after seeing specs like that in comparison to their Atom series. I don't know why they don't just licence ARM chips and start making their own. They could take over the market within a couple of years.


Equally Microsoft must be coming to terms with it all too. Their thousands of X86 programs are meaning less and less now, out dated and superior software appearing on phones!


A lot of very old bridges are going to be burned in the next few years over this. What fun it's going to be to watch!

Intel is doing the same mistake as microsoft :


They desperately hang to their old and crappy products.


x86_64 (thanks AMD) have nice days left, but the final countdown is on. I'm convinced AMD ARM/MIPS will come soon.


Windows is dead : they can't port it to ARM, because they have bad engineers, so it's a vaporware.


And Linux is almost 20 years ahead.


They were forced to put kinect on the market (i'm sure this device was ready little time after wiimote), their last joker. And windows phone is an epic failure.


Gates and Ballmer sold many shares, and high executives are living the company... No need to say more.


Indeed, Craigix, next episodes will be interesting as never ^^.
 
^^ Microsoft will always be here, just like IBM is still here. They'll also be relevant, but like IBM less and less so. They will port to ARM, well, never will be able to port but they shouldn't port windows anyway, they should start over.


When Ballmer dies/gets booted they'll see some better times again, not as good as the olden' days but better than now.


As for Intel and AMD, Intel will always be bigger than AMD, I like AMD more but Intel is a LOT bigger than AMD and that isn't going to change. I think AMD and Intel will both start making ARM chips and they'll probably do it better than nVidia and Ti but they won't do it until their profit margins really start to plummet.
 
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Wow, people sure are anti-MS and anti-x86 for mysterious reasons.

Equally Microsoft must be coming to terms with it all too. Their thousands of X86 programs are meaning less and less now, out dated and superior software appearing on phones!

I don't know about "their" thousands of x86 programs but I do know that MS has been supporting ARM on phones for years just like everyone else, with WinCE/Mobile and now WP7. It's a little cruel to blame MS for an alleged superiority of apps over desktop programs. It's an extremely broad and not especially fair comparison anyway.. the form factors are both better suited to different things and the markets have different potentials. A lot of great things are being done on phones and tablets these days but most of us are still using computers for at least something. And you don't really need thousands of apps for the core of what you do, just a few.

They desperately hang to their old and crappy products.

Their "old and crappy" product lines are what sell - Windows 7 is MS's biggest moneymaker by far right now and Office continues to be strong. Meanwhile, MS is known for losing huge money on all sorts of new endeavors. Not that they don't try. But there's nothing wrong with continually playing to their strengths when it's what the market wants.

x86_64 (thanks AMD) have nice days left, but the final countdown is on. I'm convinced AMD ARM/MIPS will come soon.

Interesting, you praise AMD solely for making x86 64-bit (okay, there were some other changes but I doubt you care as much) but stand by ARM which is still 32-bit at a point where it probably needs to move to 64-bit pretty soon.


AMD has three new x86 cores, I don't think they'd like to spread themselves even thinner by licensing more tech. They'll probably instead do their best to move Bobcat further down, which is a process already underway. If the entire world uses nothing but < 1W CPUs for anything then there'll be a problem for companies like them but I definitely can't see this happening regardless of the current smart phone and tablet euphoria. That growth is going to plateau and people will still use their computers.

Windows is dead : they can't port it to ARM, because they have bad engineers, so it's a vaporware.

Gee, Windows 7 sales are doing well and meanwhile MS announced Windows 8 is coming to ARM. But they can't port it because they have "bad engineers", so that's an empty threat, right? I know some people who work at MS, I wonder just what you think of them. Apparently that doing a complex OS is possible but porting it to ARM is beyond their capabilities.

And Linux is almost 20 years ahead.

How in the world do you qualify a statement like that? Maybe in 20 years you could draw some data showing it.. at any rate, more vague superiority claims without any real substance. Can you start listing tangible complaints and praise or have you just been running on autopilot for a while now?

They were forced to put kinect on the market (i'm sure this device was ready little time after wiimote), their last joker.

Kinect is doing great. Not just in sales, but the hacker crowd is going nuts over it. Can't really complain there. Even my MS-hating coworker has it. It really opens up way more than Wii did, and in the gaming market complaining about who came up with what first is appropriate for companies trying to market sour grapes. All that matters is who has what right now, and Kinect is anything but late. Besides, I don't see criticism for Playstation Move paired with your Kinect hate..

And windows phone is an epic failure.

http://mashable.com/2010/12/21/windows-phone-7-sales/


1.5 million sales in 6 weeks is not groundbreaking but it's definitely not what I'd consider an "epic failure." It'll probably remain third tier (if not fourth) but so long as it has enough of a market to justify its costs it won't be a failure. Of course, MS does have a habit of spending far too much to win a market and then ending up far in debt (see original XBox), so it remains to be seen if WP7 turns out like this.

Gates and Ballmer sold many shares, and high executives are living the company... No need to say more.

If you think MS is making bad decisions it'd stand to reason that high executives leaving would be a good thing. It's strange that someone like yourself would judge a company's merit based on its stock activity...
 
@exophase


when he said, (thanks AMD) I think he was being sarcastic for giving x86 an extended life lease.
 
I don't know about "their" thousands of x86 programs but I do know that MS has been supporting ARM on phones for years just like everyone else, with WinCE/Mobile and now WP7.
WinCE is a joke.


WP7 ? Where are WP7 users ? _Never_ saw one for real.

Their "old and crappy" product lines are what sell - Windows 7 is MS's biggest moneymaker by far right now and Office continues to be strong. Meanwhile, MS is known for losing huge money on all sorts of new endeavors. Not that they don't try. But there's nothing wrong with continually playing to their strengths when it's what the market wants.
Wow, you seems to ignore wintel history : they made the market. They force users to buy their products, OS and office suite. Beeing a best seller, especially in a dictatorship form, doesn't means the product is better. In fact microsoft OS'se are probably the worst ever created.

Interesting, you praise AMD solely for making x86 64-bit (okay, there were some other changes but I doubt you care as much) but stand by ARM which is still 32-bit at a point where it probably needs to move to 64-bit pretty soon.
AMD made the nowadays PC. If Intel were alone, your next PC will be a P4.


ARM kicks butts, whether it is 32, 64 or 128 ^^, but we will see soon.

AMD has three new x86 cores, I don't think they'd like to spread themselves even thinner by licensing more tech. They'll probably instead do their best to move Bobcat further down, which is a process already underway. If the entire world uses nothing but < 1W CPUs for anything then there'll be a problem for companies like them but I definitely can't see this happening regardless of the current smart phone and tablet euphoria. That growth is going to plateau and people will still use their computers.
Again, we'll see soon.

Windows is dead : they can't port it to ARM, because they have bad engineers, so it's a vaporware.

Gee, Windows 7 sales are doing well and meanwhile MS announced Windows 8 is coming to ARM. But they can't port it because they have "bad engineers", so that's an empty threat, right? I know some people who work at MS, I wonder just what you think of them. Apparently that doing a complex OS is possible but porting it to ARM is beyond their capabilities.
Err, wrong statement : PC sales are doing well. As consumer are forced to buy w7 with a PC... w7 sales are good B)


Doing a complex OS doesn't means doing a good OS. I don't care about a so-called complex OS.


And think about this : porting windows to another architecture... Okay, in ten years, maybe... But in ten years, nobody will remember microsoft, as for DEC now.

And Linux is almost 20 years ahead.
How in the world do you qualify a statement like that? Maybe in 20 years you could draw some data showing it.. at any rate, more vague superiority claims without any real substance. Can you start listing tangible complaints and praise or have you just been running on autopilot for a while now?
Linux supports ARM since a very long time : it's a no match. I don't need to argue/autopilot.

Kinect is doing great. Not just in sales, but the hacker crowd is going nuts over it. Can't really complain there. Even my MS-hating coworker has it. It really opens up way more than Wii did, and in the gaming market complaining about who came up with what first is appropriate for companies trying to market sour grapes. All that matters is who has what right now, and Kinect is anything but late. Besides, I don't see criticism for Playstation Move paired with your Kinect hate..
Where the heck did you read i hate kinect ?

http://mashable.com/2010/12/21/windows-phone-7-sales/


1.5 million sales in 6 weeks is not groundbreaking but it's definitely not what I'd consider an "epic failure." It'll probably remain third tier (if not fourth) but so long as it has enough of a market to justify its costs it won't be a failure. Of course, MS does have a habit of spending far too much to win a market and then ending up far in debt (see original XBox), so it remains to be seen if WP7 turns out like this.
Almost everyone knows WP7 is a failure but you... Even microsoft knows it...

Gates and Ballmer sold many shares, and high executives are living the company... No need to say more.

If you think MS is making bad decisions it'd stand to reason that high executives leaving would be a good thing. It's strange that someone like yourself would judge a company's merit based on its stock activity...
Again, where did you read i judge a merit on stock activity ?


Microsoft is sinking : "Got the facts" B)
 
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