Simple Request

[SNESFAN]

Hello, long time reader first time poster. This post is Pandora forum related, not specifically about the device it's self though.

I have noticed over the years, on these forums, whenever anyone, and I mean ANYONE that posts anything on these forums, the same elitist jerks flame and spit hate on who asks a question or basically posts anything in general. The reason alot of people even post these questions is because they can't get any real information in the flood of flaming and hatred from what seems to me as being a army of over caffeinated 12 year olds.

I'm not sure if it is because you're all frustrated that the Pandora has been delayed alot or maybe it's just the whole community is full of jerks. But in case you didn't know, nobody likes people like that. If you know the answer to a question, answer the question, but don't belittle someone just for asking. If you feel the question to be a newbie question or what in your mind is a stupid uneducated question... then keep it to yourself... I just got done reading a post about some guy asking if winxp could be used on the panda, and the very first post was some jerk making it a point to be obnoxious about telling him no and that it couldn't happen. True alot of these questions *COULD* be answered with a search, but again when you have to skip through literally hundreds of posts of just slandering and bashing, it's not a surprise they can't find what they are looking for. You don't have to do the search for this person, but just to say use google or use the search... please... please... PLEASE! give them the answer... I myself search all the time and what useally comes up is someone asking the question I typed in the search and people just replying back with... use a search... no actual information... would it be so bad to see the same answer 2 or 3 times instead of just making reference to the fact the question has once apon a time been asked before?

This is just one example, every time I see a new post there's literally at least 20 posts from people bashing on anyone that doesn't know as much about the project as others. If you want this to be a totally niche community of elitists and arrogant a-holes, then fine, but I for one don't want that stigma. As a general request to all who read this, please in the future be more considerate of each other, veterans and newcomers alike. If not, don't be surprised if this community stagnates and people just move on to where they think their opinion matters.

 

[lulzfish]

Should we direct people to the wiki instead of the search?
there must be some way to get information out there without having use the forums.

 

[gp2.eXe]

Funny, I once redirected a question to the Pandora Information Index (wich would have answered it) and my post got deleted...

 

[SNESFAN]

if i personally saw a question I noticed had been asked before, I would answer the question and make reference to the post where it had been asked, and possibly make a request that the thread be locked or deleted, possibly even pm the indivual asking the info. But that's just me. Referencing the wiki would be good too, as long as you make an actual reference rather than a simple "use the wiki". Some people aren't hardcore and are just looking for general info about the device before ordering but don't exactly know where to start, so they ask pretty newbie questions sometimes.

 

[danielliu88888]

we're not really frustrated about the delay. the community is NOT full of jerks (maybe quasist and a few other people disincluded). the reason people are frustrated is that people continually ask the same questions over and over again (half-life, windows, un-emulatable systems, etc.) of course, the homepage doesn't exactly make the wiki noticiable so people immediately dump their questions here.

no offense intended, but your generalization of us all being elitist and arrogant assholes makes you seem more elitist. swearing doesn't help anyone and is a pretty crude way of expressing your opinion.

PS good luck trying poisonedv to stop being a jerk

PPS i don't drink coffee

if i personally saw a question I noticed had been asked before, I would answer the question and make reference to the post where it had been asked, and possibly make a request that the thread be locked or deleted, possibly even pm the indivual asking the info. But that's just me. Referencing the wiki would be good too, as long as you make an actual reference rather than a simple "use the wiki". Some people aren't hardcore and are just looking for general info about the device before ordering but don't exactly know where to start, so they ask pretty newbie questions sometimes.

some people here expect that you actually read some more stuff about the pandora before asking stupid questions.

 

[SNESFAN]

this isn't the first forum I've been on or read, and I don't post because i don't exactly like answering questions. I know the problems you have here, are on bascially every forum on the web, but this does seem to be the place where people go first when they have a question.

For every pro there is 100x more newbies, it comes with the trade and it's something you just have to deal with. I am not trying to come off as eliteist or whatnot, I'm not even making any claim to even knowing anything, this is just interpersonal relations I'm talking about. I'm just asking people to calm it down a bit. And the generalization is only because it seems to be everyone I see doing it. No offence intended to the actual helpful people out there. And the half hearted cussing... saying a-hole isn't so bad imo... is because I myself am tired of seeing the flameage

sorry for the spelling errors, i'm on my way out the door, no time for spell check

 

[Chip]

The community isn't full of jerks, but there are a few that seem to ruin nearly every thread. I could eliminate 99% of the vitriol and jackassery on these forums by permabanning 5 or 6 accounts. That's not considered "acceptable", though.

As for the Windows thread, I cleaned out everything that was inaccurate, misleading or rude. If I'd have seen it sooner I'd have closed it sooner before it got that bad.

 

[Vorporeal]

There's a difference between a veteran forum-user and a new forum-user. Veteran forum-users will search forums (this applies to veteran users of forums in general, not this one in particular) for the answer to their question before making a new post asking about it. A new forum-user will just post the question and expect to get an answer. It's akin to just dropping your trash on the floor inside buildings because you expect that a janitor will come along later and clean it up for you, instead of holding on to it until you find a trash can. The reason why people get harsh and uninviting responses here is because they treat us as though we are here to answer their questions. They OBVIOUSLY don't search - most of the threads that get hit with the flamethrower are ones that literally have appeared once every day or two. The device isn't even out yet. This isn't an elitist community, it's one that demands that everyone who takes part in it is respectful to others. When a new member of the forum steps out of line for asking AGAIN whether XP will run on the Pandora, they get flamed. It is their responsibility to try to find the information before asking their question instead of assuming they'll be handed the answer on a silver platter. If they ask a thoughtful question or show in their post (in some way or another) that they did actually search the forums or wiki or whatever, they are treated civilly and people respectfully answer the question.

So yeah, before you get on our case about being "elitist assholes", you should try looking at the situation from our standpoint.

 

[pelrun]

I expect this is in response to my post on the SDXC thread.

Honestly, if you spend less time thinking about a question than you do typing it and posting, then you should expect the same in return. It doesn't matter if the same topic has been posted every day for a year - if you've looked at those and still have something to ask then another one is okay. But 99% of the time people don't even attempt to find the answer out for themselves, or even spend a few days reading new posts before asking "Can it emulate an N64" AGAIN.

 

[TrevorBradley]

I made a similar plea many months back, suggesting that many of the users who come here are new and that it's just a reality that many many people are going to ask questions that have been answered over and over again, moreso for Pandora than for other products. I asserted at the time the hostility toward new users would scare people away and consequently diminish our future pool of developers. (And before you say "those noobs will never develop!", realize that *I've* at times felt uncomfortable creating my game for free when the community can get overly mean to the newcomers.)

I really would recommend that the next time a "Will it run N64?" post comes up, either:

1) Ignore it! A much better way to be rude to someone who asks a dumb question. (at least here in Canada...)
2) If you have a touch more patience, copy/paste a link to where the question has been answered before. If every dumb thread was answered in this fashion, people would both get the impression that this was a helpful community, and that these questions likely have been answered before. (And it would be *really* nice to have links fixed for this)

Really #1 will be sufficient for most.

I might recommend that we consider a sub-forum grouping for posts of "Questions that have been asked before" or "Newbie Questions". Not exactly a hostile banishment, but a place where those posts people would rather not see in the Pandora General discussion can live. Not the best solution for the problem, but perhaps the one that best suits the community dynamic: newbie, impatient future pandora owner, or lurker.

 

[lulzfish]

The problem is that people like yelling.
#2 sounds interesting, though.

 

[God Ginrai]

There's a difference between a veteran forum-user and a new forum-user. Veteran forum-users will search forums (this applies to veteran users of forums in general, not this one in particular) for the answer to their question before making a new post asking about it.
...

+1

-God Ginrai


EDIT: Please do not quote a ~300 word post for a two character reply - Chip

 

[Alpha2]

Currently the information index is broken due to the forum problems we're having. Even if new people were sharp enough to use it the links in it dont work, granted there is plenty of actual info in it but any link is useless.

But again that assumes that someone actually tried to find the info before asking and 9 times out of ten a new user is going to ask someone to tell them directly, Prehaps because they rather have a live person answer followups. It's been this way since forums came into existance and will probably never stop, nor will the instant reaction of anger and disgust when someone re-asks a question that was asked no more than a week ago.

It's the way of the universe.

 

[gruso]

I think it would help if the link to the wiki (from openpandora.org) went directly to:

http://pandorawiki.org/Info
pandorawiki.org/Info

 

[Chip]

Currently the information index is broken due to the forum problems we're having.
I've added a note to the Info Index to that effect with a link to the functioning wiki version. Hopefully this will no longer contribute to the issue, though I suspect it was not a major factor to begin with.

 

[WizardStan]

To add my own two bits, there have basically been 3 types of new user questions.
1) "I've done some research and found some answers, but together they don't make sense. My question is..."
These are the best kind: they prove the author has some attempted to gain some knowledge of the subject. There have been a few discussions like this over the many months, and they're welcome and appreciated.
2) "I searched for X but didn't find an answer so now I ask here"
The reply to X is usually polite but terse, at least a post to the effect of "try searching for Y instead" if not a full response. Again, there have been a few of these. They rarely become flame bait because at least the author tried, even if they did miss the mark.
3) "I've done absolutely no research and will now demonstrate it by asking something which should be obvious if I'd done even the simplest of searches"
Case in point, "can it run XP?". I don't tolerate people in the real world asking me to do their research for them for free, I certainly won't tolerate it over the internet. I just ignore such posts, but I can at least understand the desire of others to respond with snarky comments.

 

[SNESFAN]

So yeah, before you get on our case about being "elitist assholes", you should try looking at the situation from our standpoint.

I do hear what you're saying in your post, I agree with some of it. But, you basically said what I was trying to get at in the very end of your post. Instead of seeing the bad in the newbie, look at it from their point of view. Maybe I'm biased cause I work at a help desk and I get alot of clueless people calling. For which I find an answer for them. But if I didn't care about a question they had or I had or thought it to be stupid, I would basically just ignore it, or say I didn't know. Not answering them would get them impatient and they would eventually dig deeper and find their answer if it was in fact, that easy to find. Replying and scaring the newbie away hopefully isn't what you want, but I can guarantee what's happening. You guys have been here, you're not going anywhere, the newbie just got here, more of a chance he won't be coming back. Look at it from their point of view. Empowering is much better than humiliating

 

[Poem58]

I believe one of my first questions was about TV out....in which I was categorically told that it was S-video ONLY and that I would need to convert the signal...in a completely different thread...Chip confirmed there was also a composite connection...
I just for kicks did a search...of all forums...typed in TV out...it said no entries matched my search.

Maybe people do try a search and are told no entry exists...then ask a question that should have shown a search result?

 

[WizardStan]

You couldn't have done a search for "TV out": the search function won't accept words of 3 characters or less.

 

[Poem58]

You couldn't have done a search for "TV out": the search function won't accept words of 3 characters or less.

Which means if someone Put "Win XP" or "N64" they would get no answer...then ask the question....now it makes sense...