Retro VGS indiegogo campaign. (changed title)


So basically, the VGS developers are smug and condescending towards kevtris about FPGA replications of console cores, when he's the best around at this task, and he makes them look like fools.

But the thing that I'm still really struggling to understand is, why was this ever about using any replication cores, much less super faithful ones? Nowhere have I seen any mention that this is supposed to emulate anything. It's supposed to be about new games. Why do you need to have a bunch of perfect reproductions of classic systems to support new games? Why go through all of that instead of just coming up with some new (and most likely easier to develop for) base system specification and let people tinker with the FPGA (if it'll even still have one - pretty amazing that this is even being discussed after they launched the indiegogo campaign around the concept) to do more things down the road if they want to?

Then I look at the games they're promoting on their indiegogo page and see that the first two are NeoGeo homebrew titles. So I think that's their actual angle, that they want to leverage existing homebrew. Then I look at the other games and see most of them are normal modern indie game titles for normal platforms. And I think, no way are these people going to want to completely rewrite their game to try to make it work on an ancient console. No matter how much they like the concept they're going to look at the actual effort needed and say no way.
 
Exophase said:
So basically, the VGS developers are smug and condescending towards kevtris about FPGA replications of console cores, when he's the best around at this task, and he makes them look like fools.

But the thing that I'm still really struggling to understand is, why was this ever about using any replication cores, much less super faithful ones? Nowhere have I seen any mention that this is supposed to emulate anything. It's supposed to be about new games. Why do you need to have a bunch of perfect reproductions of classic systems to support new games? Why go through all of that instead of just coming up with some new (and most likely easier to develop for) base system specification and let people tinker with the FPGA (if it'll even still have one - pretty amazing that this is even being discussed after they launched the indiegogo campaign around the concept) to do more things down the road if they want to?

Then I look at the games they're promoting on their indiegogo page and see that the first two are NeoGeo homebrew titles. So I think that's their actual angle, that they want to leverage existing homebrew. Then I look at the other games and see most of them are normal modern indie game titles for normal platforms. And I think, no way are these people going to want to completely rewrite their game to try to make it work on an ancient console. No matter how much they like the concept they're going to look at the actual effort needed and say no way.
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Yeah leaving the fpga in the console just to let people tinker with it is a good idea. it may encourage developers to muck about with the console. I think one idea was to allow say intellivision or atari 2600 home brew devs to be able to additionally release their games on the intellivision or atari core in the Retro vgs. I'm not sure I thought this was  a good idea as technically the retro vgs would become an intellivision or an atari and this is kind of schizophrenic, leaving the vgs without a clear identity.
They did originally say it would be 150 to 200 dollars and would be as powerful as a ps1 in terms of 3d capabilities. The console they are pitching now is quite a different beast and now their potential audience are wondering why a different console is being presented rather than the one they potentially signed up for.
 
To get to the 2 000 000 budget they need to sell about 6 000 consoles, mayby more depending on wich price option sells the most. And they currently sold less then 200... And with the price that high its not gonna sell like hotcakes nomatter if it got any kickass exclusives or just ports, and with a market of 6000 potential buyers I wouldnt expect to many kickass exclusives... Theres still the main point of having a game on cartridge rather then as a download, Im still pissed I cant get Daytona USA or Afterburner cos they stopped selling them? So cartridges are appealing from many points of views, I dont know what Im trying to say, just throwing some shit out there.
 
I kind of want to give them credit for at least setting a goal that isn't horribly underestimated, unlike so many other crowd funded projects today.

But on the flip side, the bigger the goal the worse it'll be if it fails.

I guess it's all moot if there's no way they'll reach it anyway.

All things considered, for as much as they're pushing their repurposing of the Jaguar molds for this console I think it's hurting sales. People don't want a relatively large and mostly empty console. The part where the Jaguar CD would have went is especially conspicuous, your eyes are drawn to it wondering why it's there.
 
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FYI - here's a link to the atari age thread he mentioned at the end of the article.  It looks like he's significantly farther along than the retroVGS folks as far as prototyping, and he's not even sure he's going to make an actual product yet.
 
So the point i think he made is if you remove the FPGA from the system, as making it an extension effectively is, then you are down to Rpi and regular ARM. Which "anyone" can do, sure. But it makes sense for what it is.

The FPGA system does too, in between those i dont understand it. Its just more expensive than baseline and less modular than the capable one.

Its like every reason why those consoles it emulates are now outdated, with no premise of ever being good in the way that they were.

Should totally get this guy onboard for a retropi2 project to utilize his hard work.

I think the market and the time in history is there for an FPGA gaming-system, but maybe not in the volume they intended. It still got a bit too much, so they tried to cut corners and that happened to be the part of the boat that is the keel, under the water.

I dont know, but im exited about this kevtris guy. Edit: Hes doing the zimba 3000 project http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/
 
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This interview with kevtris is pretty informative:http://nintendolegend.com/2015/09/interview-kevin-kevtris-horton-on-the-retro-vgs/
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So they supposedly considered a TI SoC, hmm.
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Taken from the interview:
When it launched it transformed into a TI SOC of some kind with “3D capabilities” that was so new the data sheet wasn’t even ready, and chips were not going to ship from TI until november of this year. I guess they still are over a month away from having any kind of silicon yet.
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I wonder which year he was talking about. Was Launch last year (when they launched it to the public?)
Would make a bit of sense, since the OMAP5 was available around November.

Or was it this year? Then it's probably one of the AM series.
But that would be crazy - doing an Indiegogo campaign before the chip isn't even released (and we know how much these SoCs can be delayed...)
 
This Kevtris guy should team up with ED to develop the Zimba 3000.   Sounds like it would be a perfect match.   

Although, I'd change the name, not fond of Zimba , but then again, it's not like you are going to forget that name , so hmmm
 
vcoleiro said:
This Kevtris guy should team up with ED to develop the Zimba 3000.   Sounds like it would be a perfect match.   

Although, I'd change the name, not fond of Zimba , but then again, it's not like you are going to forget that name , so hmmm
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Sounds a bit like Zumba or Zima or both.


I went straight from neogaf to atari age yesterday and tried to backtrack to when the BS started and couldn't find a clear starting point in the last 2 weeks.  It seems things have been iffy for a while.  I have been trying to read from about a week before campaign launch to present, but I just don't have the time to read all that.  I check out Atari Age occasionally (I think I might have an account there too), and have seen the thread there.  I wasn't following it recently.  It would have been nice to see it recently so that we could have had a few more details here earlier.
 
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This Kevtris guy should team up with ED to develop the Zimba 3000.   Sounds like it would be a perfect match.  
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That's a good idea. If it ever reaches any kind of volume demand ED can help him get in contact with injection moulding companies and distributors, and some other logistics stuff. Although Kevtris is no stranger to making enthusiast products.

It looks like he is going to completely steal VGS's lunch. Love this comment:

I was tired of "retro this" and "retro that" and wanted something that didn't have "vision" "Game" "system" or "retro" in it since IMO it sounds kinda cheesy.
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If only he said "video" instead of "vision." So close. No but seriously, "Retro Video Game System" is one of most uncreative names I've ever heard. I know product naming isn't easy but come on.
 
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Its the name from his magazine that he had already called RETRO, then he just added VGS to it, if you know were it comes from it dosnt sound as bad imo.
 
vcoleiro said:
I think they will struggle to get to $200K, let alone $2M
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I'm still not sure why they do need that much money, especialy since they already have the injection molds, which are the most expensive parts there I guess. Compared to the Pyra, the VGS Console has much less hardware parts and I doubt, ED would need 2 Million Dollars if he launches a Pyra KS campaign.
 
The campaign and video is so badly done to my eyes that this whole thing is no no from the beginning.
At least it lead to knowing kevtri´s project which is a good read.  
 
On their page, it says that 2/3 of their goal will be used for contributor rewards. So I guess that means the custom colors + the low unit production costs over $1 million?

I do like some aspects of their philosophy, but their marketing vision is worse than a dead horse wearing sunglasses. No Internet is bad, they should just mandate games to be playable without a connection. Name is lame. And FPGA is apparently beyond their knowledge (it's beyond mine but I can admit that).

Kinda sad, all that enthusiasm and design effort gone to waste. I'm sure something useful could have been done with the Jaguar molds, just needs more thought in a 2015 world.
 
This campaign needs to take off like a friggin rocket to succeed now!! it needs a serious and sudden boost or it's dead in the water.
 
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