Requesting Video Of Tv Out Cables With Crt Tv

[transmition]

In the original demonstration of the TV out cables, there was lag between the sound and (I believe) the controls.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf-7zT6LODk&feature=player_embedded#at=114

This was attributed to the particular LCD having issues receiving and instantaneously displaying input, and that this was supposedly normal. I would like to have this confirmed by demonstrating the TV out with a CRT television, showing both gameplay and perhaps something like Big Buck Bunny in Mplayer.

It would be appreciated if a dev could fulfill my request

 

[Paradox]

I can't hear any sound on that video.. what do you mean by lag? if there's no sound how can you tell if there's lag. or am I missing something

 

[transmition]

I can't hear any sound on that video.. what do you mean by lag? if there's no sound how can you tell if there's lag. or am I missing something

Try turning your speakers on.

 

[Azure]

I can't hear any sound on that video.. what do you mean by lag? if there's no sound how can you tell if there's lag. or am I missing something

There's sound in the video; check your speakers/audio settings.

 

[JayFoxRox]

This was attributed to the particular LCD having issues receiving and instantaneously displaying input

Ehm... no
The issue is that the Pandora displays on its own LCD and the TV-Out which are out of sync. An CRT won't change things here as long you don't put the CRT into the Pandora. But even then, it's still a driver issue which was probably already fixed by now..

//Edit: No worries Paradox, I started in the middle of the video and didn't hear anything neither, skip to the end, there is some audio.

 

[Asmo]

Ehm... no
The issue is that the Pandora displays on its own LCD and the TV-Out which are out of sync. An CRT won't change things here as long you don't put the CRT into the Pandora. But even then, it's still a driver issue which was probably already fixed by now..

Not quite - the issue was that Flat Panel TVs can 'delay' input signals slightly due to their more intensive signal processing (a CRT is more or less instantaneous, that's why the request - to see if this proves that it's the TV in the demo that's at fault). People were seeing an apparent delay in the videos between what was on the Pandora's screen, and what was on the LCD Tv it was connected to. The Pandora's output shouldn't be out of sync by a visible degree - that would make playing games 'difficult' as pressing buttons wouldn't have an immediate effect onscreen. This led to the discussion the OP is probably recalling, here:

http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/49571-av-cables-have-arrived/page__st__150

 

[Awakening]

Running Guitar Hero on my new LCD TV I have found that it has at least a 30 ms delay (enough to be unplayable), but this can be calibrated and compensated for in the game settings.

 

[WizardStan]

Ehm... no
The issue is that the Pandora displays on its own LCD and the TV-Out which are out of sync. An CRT won't change things here as long you don't put the CRT into the Pandora. But even then, it's still a driver issue which was probably already fixed by now..

Ehm... no
It's really really hoped not to be a driver or hardware issue, because that would mean it's a problem with the Pandora that will probably never be fixed.
The theory is that LCD TVs, when getting a 480i signal (from an S-Video cable, for example) take a fraction of a second to upscale to the 1080i or whatever that the TV can display, complete with smoothing effects and other fancy conversion stuff. This delay makes the picture look a little better, but introduces lag. It doesn't matter for movies and TV, most have a setting that allows you to lag the sound as well so you don't notice the difference, but with video games it makes a huge difference.
Testing the video out on an old CRT, which does not need to upscale and therefore shouldn't have the same lag, will prove that it was, in fact, the LCD TV, something that has nothing to do with Pandora, rather than it being a problem with the Pandora itself.

 

[JayFoxRox]

Ehm... no
The issue is that the Pandora displays on its own LCD and the TV-Out which are out of sync. An CRT won't change things here as long you don't put the CRT into the Pandora. But even then, it's still a driver issue which was probably already fixed by now..

Ehm... no
It's really really hoped not to be a driver or hardware issue, because that would mean it's a problem with the Pandora that will probably never be fixed.
The theory is that LCD TVs, when getting a 480i signal (from an S-Video cable, for example) take a fraction of a second to upscale to the 1080i or whatever that the TV can display, complete with smoothing effects and other fancy conversion stuff. This delay makes the picture look a little better, but introduces lag. It doesn't matter for movies and TV, most have a setting that allows you to lag the sound as well so you don't notice the difference, but with video games it makes a huge difference.
Testing the video out on an old CRT, which does not need to upscale and therefore shouldn't have the same lag, will prove that it was, in fact, the LCD TV, something that has nothing to do with Pandora, rather than it being a problem with the Pandora itself.

Notaz has added DSS2 features to latest kernel so I'm trying it out. There are still some issues with the setup and there is some slow down displaying simultaneously to LCD and S-Video output (Note: Why would he say display to (external, as you claim) LCD and S-Video (leading to external LCD, as you claim)? It makes no sense.. It's clearly about internal LCD and TV-Out running out of sync on the Pandora). This is just the first crack at it and the code can only be improved from here.

He doesn't mention the LCD in question a single time. Its (has been?) a software / driver issue with DSS2.
The video is from early 09, DSS2 hasn't been in the angstrom kernel for too long neither and has been the root of many problems for me.

I never spoke about hardware issues neither - It (was?) a problem with the software side of the Pandora though.


I know that these TVs have to upscale the image internally - but they do it extremly fast, the overhead we see here is caused by doing something similar in the Pandora probably which was not optimized (back then?).

 

[kaprikawn]

I know that these TVs have to upscale the image internally - but they do it extremly fast, the overhead we see here is caused by doing something similar in the Pandora probably which was not optimized (back then?).

Fail. TVs don't scale images 'extremely fast'. Some of them do, many don't. As someone else in this thread has mentioned, playing Guitar Hero on their TV makes it unplayable. It's a very common problem and much more likely to be the source of the lag than all the kernal-related stuff that you're quoting in a contrived effort to sound clever.

 

[Chip]

It's a very common problem and much more likely to be the source of the lag than all the kernal-related stuff that you're quoting in a contrived effort to sound clever.

When an actual dev says here is a problem in the kernel, it's probably true. Telling someone who is already writing fairly complicated software for a system that you, someone with no actual experience at all, knows better than they do, is pretty damn rude. There are (or at least were) some software issues with the TV-out.

Don't be a condecending prick in a contrived effort to sound clever. It has the exact opposite effect.

 

[alucart1984]

Testing on a CRT TV would truly show it is a HDTV issue or if it is a software issue. I am sure someone with a Pandora should have at least one CRT TV with S-VIDEO inputs. Also on many HDTVs you can turn off the upscaling/ video processing for to help that lag so that is another option to try.

EDIT:

In the end all that matters is that TV-out is functioning the best it can. Whether its due to the TV or a kernal issue or a combination of both what does it matter? I am curious as to if the TV-OUT was tested on a CRT TV to see how it runs on that, cause if it is perfect on that and not on an LCD TV then the badass coding you all do can be focused on making something similar to the calibrater on Guitar Hero to fix the issue on the Pandora on LCD TVs.

 

[juniorm33]

As far as I can remember it was always assumed to be an issue with the tv doing it's internal stuff, I don't remember that ever being confirmed though. Which to be fair got repeated an awful lot.
But as I never ordered the tv cable I may have missed subsequent updates.

@Chip +1

 

[JayFoxRox]

It's a very common problem and much more likely to be the source of the lag than all the kernal-related stuff that you're quoting in a contrived effort to sound clever.

When an actual dev says here is a problem in the kernel, it's probably true. Telling someone who is already writing fairly complicated software for a system that you, someone with no actual experience at all, knows better than they do, is pretty damn rude. There are (or at least were) some software issues with the TV-out.

Don't be a condecending prick in a contrived effort to sound clever. It has the exact opposite effect.

He has a point though. Calling the TVs extremly fast might have been a stupid move - but I doubt its more than 100ms or so in most cases and I highly doubt that this is the problem in the video as I gave enough evidence.
It doesn't matter that I'm a dev in this case though because I never really worked on the kernel nor did I look how exactly the DSS2 driver works.
- But as a user I can say that it caused problems for me before.

However, last post by me in this topic, I think my point is clear

 

[Phawx]

@JayFoxRox

You're a class act. I was going to PM you with that, but I thought it was worth mentioning in this thread.

 

[Enverex]

So just to summarise, assuming you're using a TV that has no delay itself, will there be a delay when using the Pandora via the Video Out?

 

[fusion_power]

I have a LCD HDTV and I plan to use the Pandora TV Cable with my TV. All I want to know is is tere general a (sound/image) delay-Problem or not?
Because otherwise I have no real usage for the TV-Cable except watching movies. If Movie-Sound is also delayed, then I really hope, there is a solution to fix this issues.

 

[Phawx]

@fusion_power

last we saw, there was a visible latency between what happened on the pandora and what happened on the screen. It's very hard to discern how bad the latency *actually* is, unless it is hooked up to a standard CRT.

 

[juniorm33]

Was it ever actually confirmed to be the tv or did the dev's just go and try/fix the kernal whilst everything else they were working on? (could explain why we never got many tv out examples I guess)
The tv was so laggy I really found it hard to believe it could be THAT bad, but I don't have much knowledge about tv's, so like everyone else I just waited for another tv out vid

 

[Asmo]

So just to summarise, assuming you're using a TV that has no delay itself, will there be a delay when using the Pandora via the Video Out?

Well, that's what the OP (and others before) tried to unravel - it would be reassuring if someone would step in and definitively put the matter to rest, the TV Out is a pretty significant feature.