Reordering Update

[Phawx]

Disagree, we are so close to having the final prototype, why waste the bandwidth?

What's a few more days at this point?

If your worried about Bandwidth, host it on Vimeo and Youtube. Problem solved.

 

[Frogboy]

Disagree, we are so close to having the final prototype, why waste the bandwidth?

What's a few more days at this point?

It might be more like a week and a half to two weeks from the way it sounds. It also sounds like they need to do anything and everything they can to convince people to reorder through bank transfer, or possibly that xoom that everyone is talking about, sooner rather than later to get the ball rolling again. This could help.

 

[Mjlink]

My worry is the bandwidth wasted by the thing behind their faces.

 

[Phawx]

Alright...

I guess I am just different. If I was the developer of this machine and 4000 people dropped money down on vaporware I would be so excited that this amount of people shared my dream.

I don't think I would be able to contain myself from giving everyone updates, pictures, videos. On top of the fact that they deserve to see whats going on. Everyone flipped out that ED dropped two videos in the span of a week, because we are all starved for information about the project.

I would like to leave these forums for awhile but I have to see what is going on with my refund AND the re-order page. It's just a shitty place to be in. So while I am stalking these forums daily for some news on the re-order front, I generally want to know whats going on with everyone elses projects.

Maybe it's just a lose/lose situation regardless of how OpenPandora Team gives out information. I'm upset that they chose the "less information" route. Once again, but that's just me.

 

[gaterooze]

The keyboard mats are on their way to MWeston from mfk and then you'll have your videos.

 

[rmm2131]

Do we maintain our original postition in the preorder queue if we order again?

 

[Asmo]

Do we maintain our original postition in the preorder queue if we order again?

Does it even make a difference anymore? It may have when they were going to be sent out 'as they were made' in October, but now - barring disaster - they'll probably be bunched together more closely.

 

[Prometheus]

I'm inclined to agree with Asmo that the Pandoras may very well be shipped out closer together, but as far as I know, the statement in the re-ordering e-mail that was sent out is still true (that is, apparently your place in the queue will not be lost). Well, nobody has said it isn't still true, to my knowledge, anyway.

 

[truekaiser]

now that i have had some time to think this through please answer me this.
yes you are claiming your making something that i am interested in. yes i understand there might be a situation not under your control. though how you have handled these situations has not been one that gives off the impression of assurance. yes i also know my first reaction was not the best.

considering the unprofessional* manner you have handled what has happened beyond your control, and considering that your asking people in a country where bank transfers are a frowned upon method, rightfully or wrongfully so, of money transfer. Do you really expect past a few die hard devotee's to stick their necks out and buy this product how ever wonderful it is without the slightest protection?

*lack of updates(even if trivial it helps). updates in random spots, blog, forums, rarely the main page. lack of details when updates are made on uncontrollable situations like the refunds. poor job of handling the refunds(i had to email them before they even realized they had to SEND me one of the emails). large number of missed deadlines.

 

[owenshadbolt]

Hi All,

I recently said to Jacquelyn (sales), in an email (I guess this is a more appropriate place for responses);

"In response to this posting, would PayPal not be the best compromise? I mean I would've thought that most of your customers would already have a PayPal account or be willing to get one. After all it's secure, easy, cheap and very handy to have

Anyhow I've just checked and my wife's credit card is still linked to my PayPal account, so I can get the money into there and then use a direct transfer to repay the order (plus of course some accs.) and all without incurring very much more (if any more at all!) in the way of fees.

Personally I'm just glad the team is persevering and sure everyone will work together to get through all the obstacles Thanks guys!!!"

So... I'm just one more voice voting for the PayPal option. Even with the difficulties it seems like the simplest option!

Owen.

 

[aq21]

We are willing to discount the bank fee from the Pandora price, as we are charged a fee for accepting credit cards anyway.

This needs clarification: I talked with my bank and the fees I'll pay are about 20 pounds. So should I transfer 178 pounds to pandora for my 198 pounds order?

 

[mali]

As I understand it, they are figuring out less expensive alternatives, Xoom might be one of them. Currently it's best to wait for an official word from Craig. (see quote in my sig)

 

[yosh64]

hey

I'm sick of hearing that the Pandora team are handling this in an unprofessional manner (edit: at least I think I've heard things like this a few times, hehe), I myself think they are handling it fine, I beleive that they always have our best interest in mind, which is the most important thing to me. It seems silly, as no one here has any idea what craigix and the team are doing and going through behind the scenes. I know it might seem quite odd to hear things throughout the forums, but if it was any other company then there would be nothing said, I think they would just tell you what you want to hear or whatever.

Personally, if it was any other company then I think they would probably just make some sorta statement that borders the truth, and I dunno what else would happen. Bah, if it was any other company I beleive the project would not have even got this far.

Anyhows I was thinking that instead of going over and over the same things here, specifically about the way things are being handled, and rather start a new thread (maybe even in some other section of the forum) and talk about how companies handle problems, there are probably some nice examples from Microsoft or Sony? Hmm, the manner Microsoft handled the Xbox 360 Disc Scratching might be a nice starting point.

Actually, maybe this historic amiga video might cheer ya up, or take ya mind off things, I found it inspiring myself .

Also, maybe a low number of payments via palpal would be possible, but for any large number it's likely their account would be frozen, as has already happened. If you are not aware, there has already been a complete (I assume it was for all orders anyhows) recall/refund of paypal payments because their account was frozen or something.

edit
Hmm, I can understand your concern, and I think it might be well for you to speak your mind on the forums, but I feel it can be a bit much sometimes. another: I myself also have had my concerns, but I've come around to see the situation, and as such I feel I should try offer support for the pandora team.

and another
truekaiser, I know my post may seem directed quite a bit towards you, but I don't mean to offend. I think your perspective is equally as valid as anyone elses, as yours is as real to you as mine is to me. I think everyone has their own perspective, for better or for worse, and whos is better and whos is worse I dunno, hehe. I think someones perspective can change quite quickly also, from one direction to another, and maybe even back again. I just hope in the end you are satisfied and look back at these times as something positive, such as a journey of the pandora, hehe.

cyas

 

[wardred]

CraigX and guys,
The last update I saw on bank transfers was Dec. 17th - actually stating to hold off because transfers from our normal banks cost so much. 10% or more of the price of the Pandora rather than the 2%-5% of a credit card fee. (I'm not sure if this is for everybody, just for people from the Americas, if it's anybody outside UK, or anybody outside of UK / Europe that incur these large fees.)

There have been a few guys who paid through Xoom, a few who went ahead and paid by bank transfer incurring those largish fees.
How goes the search for:

AA - How did the Xoom transfers work out? (Think I got the name right.)

A - a company that can do international bank transfers from the US without incurring huge penalties?

B - I know Paypal is out because they froze your account,
so how goes the search for an alternate method like google checkout or becoming
an Amazon Merchant and getting to take CC again? Or some other similar
service? Maybe creating an account in the states so they don't see all that CC money
flying overseas? Or finding a local retailer to take some of the orders for you?

C - How close are you to having the 1800 orders you need to take the rest by CC?

D - Even with the difficulties with PayPal, is there some minimal number of orders that
could be processed that way to get you closer to some other method of accepting funds?
I'm guessing not, at least not if posted on the forums. I imagine we'd quickly outstrip
whatever minimum number of orders you're looking for. Maybe if individuals were
e-mailed?

E - I know there were problems securing LCD screens, and maybe other parts as well.
Once you have the financial situation down, and assuming the prototype Pandora works out,
how many Pandoras are you actually going to be able to assemble, and how quickly
will it take to get production fully ramped up?

F - Being from N. America I'm still really hoping for a CC option to become viable, is there
any realistic hope in this at this point?

G - People were asking about place in line. I believe that anybody who's paid by bank transfer
at this point are "first", and those of us holding for CC will be bumped. Am I mistaken in this?

Also, I know it's the weekend and the post may not be there yet, but I'll put in my vote for seeing pictures, video, or what have you of a completed Pandora Prototype as soon as humanly possible to keep the enthusiasm going for the machine. Maybe a simple post to say how long the postal service usually takes to get to where you sent it? I saw the keypad prototype on a bare, older revision board and that was fun, but I'd really like to see a fully assembled prototype system. or know about when we could see that photo. (Maybe a message saying mail takes 3-5 days, so he should be receiving the key pad by X, and give him a day or two to post pics / video.)

Finally, I'm sorry this has been such a messed up process, for all involved. Having to deal with this financial craziness would be messed up no matter when it happened, but to have it happen at the same time you're trying to pin down the final prototype, LCDs, keypads, and other last minute details so you can actually assemble the silly things, and trying to get product out the door, as well as develop the software for it must be a real headache. I think my above questions cover most of what I've seen in the forums. I think we'd all like a general update.

EDIT:

Maybe make that update not just in this thread, but also on the main site web page too.

Also, to those stating larger companies could've handled the bank transactions...the advantage to being a large international corporation is dealing with large sums of money is normal for them. They do it on a regular basis, and are a known quantity. I think Craig and team are in a bad spot being a new, unproven company in a bust economy rather than a boom all of a sudden receiving many cash and CC transfers, especially international orders from the states at a time when CC companies and banks are very leery of any risk, and when there are so many international scams that focus on the states. And they are banking with a reputable bank, the bank just doesn't know what to do with this new company and doesn't want to deal with the risk of hundreds or thousands of screaming people demanding refunds because they were scammed.

It might be a good idea to have a regular weekly update on the main page.

Thanks!

A couple edits for clarity. And one or two other thoughts came to mind.

EDIT 2:
What about a more gradual credit card processing? Several orders a day, every day, rather than one big lump in the course of a day or two?

Edit 3:
Or, the really ugly option of having a few different accounts in different nations, and gradually taking orders from several services? Again, gradualist. A few orders a day from google checkout, a few a day from being an amazon merchant, a few a day just straight credit card, etc.? The few a day being whatever a "safe" number is for the service in question.

 

[truekaiser]

Anyhows I was thinking that instead of going over and over the same things here, specifically about the way things are being handled, and rather start a new thread (maybe even in some other section of the forum) and talk about how companies handle problems, there are probably some nice examples from Microsoft or Sony? Hmm, the manner Microsoft handled the Xbox 360 Disc Scratching might be a nice starting point.




This is not like the xbox 360 disc problem, where a company rushed out a product before proper quality testing could be done just so they can beat their rivals to market by a few months. normal company's would use a reputable bank that won't balk at the large number of transactions. they would also release a public statement saying the product is delayed till X month/quarter and work like heck to not miss the new date because they would know each pushed back date = lossed sales. I also realize that the people makeing this have either not done this before or have only sold minor open source based item's or software, nothing of this scale though. Still they could of handled it a whole heck of a lot better and should of known from the start that the main site news section of http://openpandora.org/ should be the first and MAIN place to put news.

a example of the unprofesional manner this has been handled is that there is a recent thread(ie within a month or so) of someone posting a phishing scam and posting the refund email. how many people pre-ordered and then saw that email in their mail box only to think it's a scam and ignore it? they should of put on the main site news section saying they are having bank problems with a link to a another page explaining the situation or at least the pinned thread here the day it started to happen.



EDIT:

Xoom is a bad idea.
http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/...com-c42832.html

if your going to ask people to use such services ask them to use western union. they have a online system too and are a established company. xoom is like paypal
http://www.westernunion.com/info/selectCou...gination=global

 

[Chip]

normal company's would use a reputable bank that won't balk at the large number of transactions. they would also release a public statement saying the product is delayed till X month/quarter and work like heck to not miss the new date
The bank that caused all these problems is one of the largest in the UK. Even looking into other bank options, not one single bank in England is willing to take a million dollars in CC orders on a new account. They're all that scared.

The reason we aren't making any more estimates for release is because no amount of "work" on our part can guarantee exactly when it will ship. There are too many issues that we cannot control. We're doing absolutely everything we can to get the ordering sorted out and Pandoras built and shipped.

 

[Hazelhurst]

So what's the word? What's the best way to reorder, or are we still waiting on official word from Craig?

 

[wardred]

Also, I did want to say that I appreciate the recent video posts you've already put up on the site. I know we seem to be asking for a lot of updates and daily videos or even daily pics may not be viable. That alt OS you put on there looks pretty decent, and having the larger fonts was certainly nice to see. I appreciate what we've received, just curious when we'll see a photo of the - hopefully with no issues - fully assembled prototype.

Thanks, I hope there are no more manufacturing snafus and that a workable financial solution is found soon.

Cheers!

 

[truekaiser]

normal company's would use a reputable bank that won't balk at the large number of transactions. they would also release a public statement saying the product is delayed till X month/quarter and work like heck to not miss the new date
The bank that caused all these problems is one of the largest in the UK. Even looking into other bank options, not one single bank in England is willing to take a million dollars in CC orders on a new account. They're all that scared.

The reason we aren't making any more estimates for release is because no amount of "work" on our part can guarantee exactly when it will ship. There are too many issues that we cannot control. We're doing absolutely everything we can to get the ordering sorted out and Pandoras built and shipped.

and that is the first time any of you mentioned any information on the bank. btw that part was to point out that this situation is not like other console makers. my point though still stands. the lack of information on the main site and having to hunt, poke and prod for information does not inspire confidence.

 

[wardred]

normal company's would use a reputable bank that won't balk at the large number of transactions. they would also release a public statement saying the product is delayed till X month/quarter and work like heck to not miss the new date
The bank that caused all these problems is one of the largest in the UK. Even looking into other bank options, not one single bank in England is willing to take a million dollars in CC orders on a new account. They're all that scared.

The reason we aren't making any more estimates for release is because no amount of "work" on our part can guarantee exactly when it will ship. There are too many issues that we cannot control. We're doing absolutely everything we can to get the ordering sorted out and Pandoras built and shipped.

and that is the first time any of you mentioned any information on the bank. btw that part was to point out that this situation is not like other console makers. my point though still stands. the lack of information on the main site and having to hunt, poke and prod for information does not inspire confidence.


I think the bank was mentioned earlier in this thread...but 20 pages of forum thread are A LOT to go through. Your point about some sort of a regular update on the main page, even if it's just to say we're still working on the financials, please be patient, or that we're still waiting on X to manufacture the final prototype or for manufacturing to ramp up is valid. Or even a sub-page under the main page. But a single source of info, linked to the main page, that collects all the stuff from the random threads would be helpful.

The big points, like finally receiving the keyboard mats, would happen as they happen, and the smaller updates - like if they've been received at their destination would be one liner updates on a regular - daily or every other day - basis.

Chip, I have your big list forum thread "pinned" in Firefox. It's a window I've probably not closed in weeks. It's been immensely helpful, and I wanted to thank you for keeping it up to date, but the updates in the linked threads are kind of random and can get lost amongst all the other forum posts.

How difficult would it be to have a news page off of the main page that would point to your pinned thread, but would also have "official" daily news. Nothing huge, just a quick MFG update and a quick re-order update to stop a lot of the speculation. The update could be as simple as - keyboard mats have not yet arrived where we have the prototype case. CraigX still looking for viable bank transfer and CC options for people in the US - and/or other regions?

I was thinking weekly, but if it's kept to a one liner, would daily be too crazy? (All us impatient internet generation types want constant updates on stuff. :b )

Thanks.