Reordering Update

[Chip]

and that is the first time any of you mentioned any information on the bank. btw that part was to point out that this situation is not like other console makers. my point though still stands. the lack of information on the main site and having to hunt, poke and prod for information does not inspire confidence.
There have been dozens of posts in the last month from Craig and I regarding the bank situation. You do not need to "hunt and poke" for information, you only need to read the Official Dev Update List where I collect all the relevant posts.

You are right in that we are not like other console makers. We do not have an IT or marketing department, or any other kind of staff to do this stuff. The Openpandora.org website is the old fashioned kind, and any update requires editing the HTML by hand and uploading via FTP. This is something that I will probably start doing soon, but I'm not exactly a wizard with HTML and I'm still waiting for my FTP login password. For now this forum is the quickest and easiest way for the devs to communicate with everybody. It is the only method that is easy enough for frequent updates, which is what everybody seems to want. I try to keep it as organized as possible with the update thread and the wiki and keeping the forums relatively clutter free.

You and others repeatedly make the claim that this is all very unprofessional. Well, we're not professionals. Professionals wouldn't air all the behind-the-scenes dirty laundry about all the crap that we're going through to get the Pandora made. Professionals would just have a pretty website with no real information about their design and manufacturing processes. If a professional company had setbacks, they'd simply say "Delayed until XXXX" and you'd just have to wait until XXXX to hear anything new. Professionals would never have undertaken a project like this in the first place, because they'd have known better.

We're not professionals, we're enthusiasts, and we know you're enthusiasts too. We know you'd rather be involved then just passively wait to be handed a product whenever it's done. We're keeping you involved the best that we can, and the best way for us to do that is with these forums. If that's not professional enough, then I am sorry. We'd rather be a bunch of hacks with a great product then slick sales guys with a great pitch and not much else.

 

[hobbyman II]

@ Chip

do you have a licence to speak common sense? you can`t just go around talking in a reasonable manner and putting facts together sensibly you know, many people have spent hundreds of hours in total posting paranoid drivel, you can`t just wash all that away with a few lines of reason and logic, for heavens sake, think of the consequences.....


some people are going to feel really silly when the first Pandoras ship

 

[mali]

Hah!
That sig is mine(fixed the typo, though)

 

[Chip]

Hah!
That sig is mine(fixed the typo, though)

It wasn't a typo. In American english slang (at least on all construction sites I've worked), a "hack" is an unskilled amateur. It's used similarly in the standup comedy world as meaning someone who isn't very good.

 

[mali]

Ok, I change it back then. Nice to learn something new

 

[wardred]

You do not need to "hunt and poke" for information, you only need to read the Official Dev Update List where I collect all the relevant posts.

You are right in that we are not like other console makers. We do not have an IT or marketing department, or any other kind of staff to do this stuff. The Openpandora.org website is the old fashioned kind, and any update requires editing the HTML by hand and uploading via FTP. This is something that I will probably start doing soon, but I'm not exactly a wizard with HTML and I'm still waiting for my FTP login password. For now this forum is the quickest and easiest way for the devs to communicate with everybody. It is the only method that is easy enough for frequent updates, which is what everybody seems to want. I try to keep it as organized as possible with the update thread and the wiki and keeping the forums relatively clutter free.



Chip,
If the forum is the easiest way to do things, what about this. Keep the links to the discussion threads - these have been really handy, especially for manufacturing and video / picture posts, but for the reorder update put a short update at the bottom of your master list under all the forum updates. I think CraigX's response to hold off on bank transfers and some one else's - your maybe? - response to hold off on Xoom were quite a few pages into that post, for instance. Most of the manufacturing updates are pretty much linked to directly with forum posts, and I'm happy to follow the links to those.

Any other questions you chose to answer right there would be gravy, but with all the anxiety with the re-order, having that right up front on your big list page would probably save everybody grief. Then just have a link to that page from the main page so it's easily found again if somebody misplaces their link to it.

Thanks again for all your work.

EDIT:
I missed an extra close quote.

 

[krooked]

@ Chip

do you have a licence to speak common sense? you can`t just go around talking in a reasonable manner and putting facts together sensibly you know, many people have spent hundreds of hours in total posting paranoid drivel, you can`t just wash all that away with a few lines of reason and logic, for heavens sake, think of the consequences.....

some people are going to feel really silly when the first Pandoras ship


lololol yeah i was thinking the same thing. Greatly worded Chip, 100% true.

 

[yosh64]

hey

Xoom is a bad idea.
http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/...com-c42832.html



This seems quite disturbing, even more so to me than Paypal, but I dunno. How have things gone with folks using Xoom so far? I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I thought I would, hehe. Anyhows ya might have saved some people some problems here, I mean those who were considering the use of Xoom.

BTW, in my previous post I was refering to problems in general, and I wanted to highlight that even though these apparent professional companies may seem more assuring, it seems at times this may be false, in that they may actually have little consideration towards their consumers. Assuming they, that being Microsoft, wanted to release the Xbox 360 earlier to get a head start, they done this at the expense of the quality of their product, neglecting the welfare of their consumers. Also, I don't mean to nick pick, but I think they, again being Microsoft, actually had done quality testing and knew very well of the problem, but choose not to resolve it in a caring manner.

But yea, I didn't mean to compare this directly to the current situation of the Pandora, as they are different things, I think it would be quite hard to find any simular situation to this, hehe. Anyhows I hope I have helped give you some more perspective, that is another angle to look at things, and better confidence in the Pandora team.

edit
If yas really don't wanna miss anything, then drop into Chip's The Pandora Information Index thread and look at all the posts made by craigix and the other devs, or you could manually do this via a search. Although as already mentioned the The Official Development Update List should cover everything ya wanna know about the status of things, hehe.

cyas

 

[truekaiser]

that pandora information index should be on the front page, not in the forums. preferably each one as a individual news topic. that would go a long way to dispel the air of scam and vapor ware.

 

[TheGrandPubaa]

This is so weird. I went to Xoom's website to check on the transaction, which was made on the 18th of December, and I entered my confirmation number to track said transaction. Here's what happened:


Transaction Log
Date
Activity
Dec 19, 2008 07:31:30 AM
Cancellation Complete
Dec 19, 2008 07:31:30 AM
Cancellation in Progress
Dec 19, 2008 07:30:49 AM
Cancellation Started
Dec 19, 2008 07:30:30 AM
Xoom Processing

In a nutshell, at 7:30 AM, the next morning, they cancelled the transaction. Why? Heck if I know...

So now, I guess I get to wait until the credit card page is up. These bank transfers are nightmarish...

 

[smanky]

and that is the first time any of you mentioned any information on the bank. btw that part was to point out that this situation is not like other console makers. my point though still stands. the lack of information on the main site and having to hunt, poke and prod for information does not inspire confidence.
There have been dozens of posts in the last month from Craig and I regarding the bank situation. You do not need to "hunt and poke" for information, you only need to read the Official Dev Update List where I collect all the relevant posts.

You are right in that we are not like other console makers. We do not have an IT or marketing department, or any other kind of staff to do this stuff. The Openpandora.org website is the old fashioned kind, and any update requires editing the HTML by hand and uploading via FTP. This is something that I will probably start doing soon, but I'm not exactly a wizard with HTML and I'm still waiting for my FTP login password. For now this forum is the quickest and easiest way for the devs to communicate with everybody. It is the only method that is easy enough for frequent updates, which is what everybody seems to want. I try to keep it as organized as possible with the update thread and the wiki and keeping the forums relatively clutter free.

You and others repeatedly make the claim that this is all very unprofessional. Well, we're not professionals. Professionals wouldn't air all the behind-the-scenes dirty laundry about all the crap that we're going through to get the Pandora made. Professionals would just have a pretty website with no real information about their design and manufacturing processes. If a professional company had setbacks, they'd simply say "Delayed until XXXX" and you'd just have to wait until XXXX to hear anything new. Professionals would never have undertaken a project like this in the first place, because they'd have known better.

We're not professionals, we're enthusiasts, and we know you're enthusiasts too. We know you'd rather be involved then just passively wait to be handed a product whenever it's done. We're keeping you involved the best that we can, and the best way for us to do that is with these forums. If that's not professional enough, then I am sorry. We'd rather be a bunch of hacks with a great product then slick sales guys with a great pitch and not much else.


I'd prefer more information on the main site. I personally don't mind looking through the forums, but not everybody wants to check the forums for information, and it's not always possible for me to search through the forums (not enough time) when information gets posted 6 pages deep in a thread.

Yes, maybe professionals would just say "delayed until xxx" w/o giving details, but as far as I know, professionals wouldn't take orders for 100% of the product in advance either.... and professionals would have ironed out the payment situation before taking any payments, and professionals would have done a lot of things right that open pandora has not done. Regardless of whether open pandora considers itself professionals or enthusiasts, or anything else, it's still a company, and companies still have responsibilities to their customers, especially when they've already paid for merchandise.

 

[Brockway]

This is so weird. I went to Xoom's website to check on the transaction, which was made on the 18th of December, and I entered my confirmation number to track said transaction. Here's what happened:

Transaction Log
Date
Activity
Dec 19, 2008 07:31:30 AM
Cancellation Complete
Dec 19, 2008 07:31:30 AM
Cancellation in Progress
Dec 19, 2008 07:30:49 AM
Cancellation Started
Dec 19, 2008 07:30:30 AM
Xoom Processing

In a nutshell, at 7:30 AM, the next morning, they cancelled the transaction. Why? Heck if I know...

So now, I guess I get to wait until the credit card page is up. These bank transfers are nightmarish...



Hmm, mines here:

Dec 18, 2008 11:49:04 AM Bank Processing
Dec 18, 2008 11:49:04 AM Transfer in Progress
Dec 18, 2008 11:43:00 AM Payment Verified
Dec 18, 2008 11:42:29 AM Xoom Processing

So looks like its still waiting to clear into their account. Deleted my credit card info from my account right after the transfer, don't plan on ever needing to use it again.

 

[Bigun]

I have a xoom account setup, but I'm going to take Chips advice and wait to see what happens. Perhaps Monday morning in the UK?

I'll be checking the forum periodically tomorrow.

 

[Pleng]

and that is the first time any of you mentioned any information on the bank. btw that part was to point out that this situation is not like other console makers. my point though still stands. the lack of information on the main site and having to hunt, poke and prod for information does not inspire confidence.
There have been dozens of posts in the last month from Craig and I regarding the bank situation. You do not need to "hunt and poke" for information, you only need to read the Official Dev Update List where I collect all the relevant posts.


You are talking as if to say that everybody who's ordered a Pandora should be checking the forums daily. Has it never occurred to you that some people may have seen an article on Engadget, or Digg, thought 'that sounds cool', gone to the site and made a pre-order? People like that may have never been to the forums before. So yes, they are being made to poke and hunt for information that should be made readily available to them via more appropriate channels.

The amount of complaints in these threads made by people who had only just signed up the day before making their post would indicate that a lot of people have found these forums out of necessity, rather than any particular desire to be here. The kind who preordered their Pandora and, having heard nothing by 30th November, though 'hmmm what's going on here'.

If that'd been me and I'd suddenly found that the company was announcing its news via a forum on a site which doesn't even belong to them, I'd be mighty angry.

QUOTE

The Openpandora.org website is the old fashioned kind, and any update requires editing the HTML by hand and uploading via FTP.



You are joking, right? Why on earth do you not have a content management system installed? It'd take a few hours at most and provide you with a much easier base to work from.

QUOTE

You and others repeatedly make the claim that this is all very unprofessional. Well, we're not professionals.



Sorry but that just doesn't cut it. And I'd expect better from a PR guy.

Craig has been running a resell business for years. MWeston has been in the hardware design business for years. They bloody well should be acting professionally! Craig talks the talk about wanting to work with people to resolve issues. He put out a post on 17th December, nearly a week ago, asking for suggestions. After plenty of responses he has left no feedback. Not even 'hey guys thanks for all your ideas. we're investigating a b and c and we'll get back to you. Even the 'dedicated press release guy' has had very little to say other than you might be looking at xoom.

Don't tell your customers that you are not professionals when you are dealing with £800,000 of their money. And you are asking for at least £360,000 of it to be send by an unsecured, uninsured bank transfer, whilst you are also openly admitting that you are having problems finding a bank that's willing to deal with you.

And Craig, next time you expect a massive increase in income from a project, go to your bank with a business plan first and explain what's going to happen. Don't just suddenly act surprised that your bank is freaking out at a sudden insurge of deposits.

 

[yosh64]

hey

Pleng, I think ya being a tad harsh.

Actually craigix has made a couple of posts in this thread, and he actually thanked those who had already made a bank deposit. Also, you have made the assumption that they didn't contact the banks and such before orders began.

Finally, there has been a post on the Pandora website about the situation, but I don't think nothing more has been added to the website as no decision has been made about the bank deposits, not to forget the reorder email. edit: Based on the information provided from the reorder email and on the website, I think it's clear that those no longer wanting to go on may keep their refund, and those still wanting a Pandora can pay via a bank deposit (see reorder email), or wait until credit card orders begin again. The thing I don't think they would know about is the unresolved issue with the credit card reorders, and the to be announced recommendations of how to go about doing a bank deposit.

Anyhows I understand your concern.

edit
Also, the amount of people coming on here might also indicate the number of people who really want to stick it out and find out what's going on right away because they really want a Pandora (edit: maybe it was the bonus 256MB RAM and 512MB NAND that made them go the extra mile to come here , hehe), rather than just keep their refund. Although there were some posts about the issue of the refunds not being done yet, those people could have easily taken what I think is the appropriate action to contact the Pandora team via the email address of the reorder email, as I done myself, where I was directly informed of the situation. I actually interpreted the reorder email as them wanting to know what I wanted todo, so I actually replied to inform that I wanted to reorder via credit card, and they replied right back. edit: Actually I also posted about not receiving my refund on the forums also, just wanted to get it out their, after three or so working days I emailed and they informed me of the situation and even gave me the option to trace my refund personally, where I didn't bother, and I think the next day my refund finally appeared (edit: it had actually cleared a number of days earlier, just took a few days to show on my online balance).

cyas

 

[JJS]

This is so weird. I went to Xoom's website to check on the transaction, which was made on the 18th of December, and I entered my confirmation number to track said transaction. Here's what happened:

Transaction Log
Date
Activity
Dec 19, 2008 07:31:30 AM
Cancellation Complete
Dec 19, 2008 07:31:30 AM
Cancellation in Progress
Dec 19, 2008 07:30:49 AM
Cancellation Started
Dec 19, 2008 07:30:30 AM
Xoom Processing

In a nutshell, at 7:30 AM, the next morning, they cancelled the transaction. Why? Heck if I know...

So now, I guess I get to wait until the credit card page is up. These bank transfers are nightmarish...



I had the exact same thing happen. I emailed customer support and they immediately responded and said they don't have access to the reason but gave me a phone number for their "Verification team" which I haven't called yet. I'll do that tonight and edit this post with the results.

EDIT: Called xoom, see my newer post here: http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showt...id=682126&#

 

[MarkoeZ]

one tranfer closer to resolving this, it was quite easy here in the Netherlands. And even got me a nice holiday greeting


QUOTE

From: --- on behalf of openpandorasales (---)
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 8:48:30 AM
To: Mark --- (---)

Hi Mark,

Just to let you know we have received your bank transfer and it has been matched to your original order.

Many thanks and best wishes for Christmas and the New Year.

Jacquelyn

 

[owenshadbolt]

Hi All,

Can't PayPal be used to send money to anyone with an email address? How does that work? Does the recipient need to have/create a PayPal acc?

To those who think things aren't being handled well by the team;

As soon as the financial crisis hit the project would have been shelved by any normal company. Possibly never to get revived. As for feed back, well we only have to look at Apple's recent track record!!!

Also we must appreciate that we had been given the opportunity to PRE-order a product that has not even had a first production run. The undertaking of getting a project like this to production is enormous. With so many potential problems and hold-ups that I thought when I placed my order that the guy's (and I mean no disrespect here) were being optimistic with a ship date of early December.

I have worked for electronic manufacturing companies, so I know how things work. And it bears remembering that this project started as a bunch of enthusiasts like us, with the idea of a handheld designed by the people for the people.

I have every faith that the team won't let us down, because they are us! They just had courage to try and make real what many were saying they wanted, even back in the early days of the Familiar project (Port of linux to iPaq's)

Anyhow that's my rant for tonight...

Owen.

PS I think I can pay by bank transfer, where would I find bank details?

 

[mali]

PS I think I can pay by bank transfer, where would I find bank details?

http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showt...mp;#entry665751

 

[Hazelhurst]

mali,

Thanks for putting that quote in your signature. 22 pages is a lot to go through to find out how to repay. I'm relieved that we're still waiting on official word from Craig. Here's hoping they can find a solution.