Regional Keyboards

[torpor]

The thing is, who cares what the keyboard provides? Its there for *GAMES*, not writing your dissertation on the flavour of undies preferred by prostitutes during the crimean crisis ..

If you need umlaut and a fancy keyboard, there is this amazing new technology called USB that can - for a very cheap investment of, say, 10 of your local coconuts or whatever currency your funny-speaking country uses - provide all the umlauty cicero ae-ei-ii-oe-wu you need ..

 

[mali]

Mali will correct me if I'm mistaken, but I doubt Pandora's keypad would have enough room for full German layout (for example). Compose/dead key solution would enter the equation nonetheless, even if it's simulated with Fn.

The "universal dead key" solution was a genious idea and the big difference is now, that it's actually possible to print those characters the dead key generates onto the keys. If German get's its own layout without other characters that aren't needed, it is possible to cram all in, even Ctrl or AltGr if needed.

 

[liquidgandalf]

How about a Pandora Key - like windows keyboards have the windows symbol,
dunno what it be used for but still.....

 

[mali]

It's the lower button between the nubs

 

[AireTamStorm]

I personally would love a Regional Keyboard Layout, especially if Japanese is doable. That would make my life so much easier....

If it was even possible to custom order a keyboard layout for a Pandora to accomplish this (at additional cost) I would be very happy.

 

[nikkopt]

If we did this, would it make you all happy? or is it ?

If it's possible and if it doesn't delay the first batch then yes

I need special chars but i can live with a generic keyboard with a compose key.. but hey, if a regional keyboard is on the table i can even wait an extra month. But that's just me of course, if the process delays the whole batch i don't want the rest of the ppl waiting because of this.

 

[cb88]

Just make it a generic international keyboard with compose and AtlGr hey maybe it wont make everybody happy but it is fair and it works in the most cases and has the greatest verstility.


I have used American and Brazilian keyboards (which are pretty much just american keyboards + AltGr and a couple extra symbols that can be typed with AltGr anyway)

Cluttering the keyboard is BAD it is already small printing more than one or two symbols per key is probably not good

making a default keyboard designed to cater to specific demographic groups is bad ... Compose + AltGr is the ONLY truly fair option IMO

Personally there is another reaon to include a generic intl Compose + AltGr.... hypothetically speaking what if I a US citizen want to type non US characters I do have to type in portugese on occasion so even a US gereric keyboard is not fair?

I realise this is all kind of silly since many will remap their keys anyway but yeah... Compose + AltGr is the way to go

 

[Karel Jansens]

The thing is, who cares what the keyboard provides? Its there for *GAMES*, not writing your dissertation on the flavour of undies preferred by prostitutes during the crimean crisis ..

If you need umlaut and a fancy keyboard, there is this amazing new technology called USB that can - for a very cheap investment of, say, 10 of your local coconuts or whatever currency your funny-speaking country uses - provide all the umlauty cicero ae-ei-ii-oe-wu you need ..

This has been my understanding from the start: The onboard keypad is just a thumbboard, fit only for short text entries. Anyone wanting to do serious text work will have to get a USB or BT keyboard which -- hopefully -- can be set up to the layout they prefer.

But this in the end is just one more reason against putting diacritical symbols on the default keypad.

On a sidenote: Everybody seems to be glad with the announcements from the developers about the keypad. However, I find a worrying lack of actual information in those reactions; all they say is that there won't be any diacritical symbols on the keypad, and that the shoulder buttons probably can't be used for Compose and ALTGR. There has been no word on whether the community-chosen layout will be used or not and this has precisely been the reason for my protest against ED's layout: It didn't really matter to me whether he put those weird letters on there or not, but merely, and solely, that he chose to ignore a community discussion and decision on a vitally important part of the Pandora, and did so for marketing reasons only.

So again -- and due to the reading comprehension problems of some, probably ad nauseam: I do not protest because I cannot get my pet keyboard layout, I protest because I want the developers to stand by their own adage: To produce a super-handheld that has been designed with input from its user community, and not just the community input they happen to like. There have been other instances where Craig had one idea, and the community another, and I believe that in all those cases Craig went with the community (technical reasons notwithstanding). I just hope he'll keep up the good work.

 

[mali]

The layout is still in the works and now that they will very likely decide to use a generic English version, they might consider to look at proposals of the community. But keep in mind: 349 votes is not enough to count as community decision IMO

 

[puppydee]

Never mind

 

[mali]

Is this gonna put mass production back by a few weeks having to do non standard english keyboards layout things etc? Personally I'm happy with a standard english keyboard. Wouldn't of thought it would matter since everyone on here can read/type/speak english. Just my opinion though

No, it won't delay production. All Pandoras will (very likely) get a generic English version and localized keypads will (very likely) be available separately.

 

[urjaman]

I personally would love a Regional Keyboard Layout, especially if Japanese is doable. That would make my life so much easier....

If it was even possible to custom order a keyboard layout for a Pandora to accomplish this (at additional cost) I would be very happy.

I second that. Devs, could it be possible (at additional cost) to essentially purchase custom printed keymat(s)?
(eg. I could have my own Finnish'ish layout with the Rexlia font)
If possible, how much would this cost?

 

[Grench]

Craig & team, you don't have to use any community submitted ideas or thoughts. You're in charge and can take or ignore anything we provide at your leisure.

There was a -lot- of great and civil discussion about key layouts and efficiency on a thumb based device. Several thoughts were exchanged in one of the most cooperative discussions I have ever seen online. There are several of these threads, but this was the one I was able to dig up.
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showtopic=43762
Not all of the ideas are good, some of mine stink on a 2nd read. Regardless, it was a -great- discussion thread that stayed on topic with quality feedback and interaction between members.

Now every thread other than this one that so much as mentions or discusses keyboard layouts has been locked without moderator comment.

You're welcome to include/exclude from your device any of the community submitted content you choose. Closing all of those threads in this way though feels a bit heavy handed.

Thank you for your time.

 

[nikkopt]

I don't understand why there are people saying no to regional keyboards.

If you just want a normal US keyboard then fine, order one!

- You won't pay more!
- Your Pandora won't be delayed!
- You won't get any stupid chars on your keys!

If i want a french/japanese/weeaboo keyboard it's ME that is going to pay for it.. not YOU. So why are you saying no? That seems just selfish..
And yeah, i can live with a standard keyboard.. but if i can get a chance of getting a better one for me later on.. why not?! Does it bother you knowing that my keyboard is different from yours?

 

[WizardStan]

So again -- and due to the reading comprehension problems of some, probably ad nauseam: I do not protest because I cannot get my pet keyboard layout, I protest because I want the developers to stand by their own adage: To produce a super-handheld that has been designed with input from its user community, and not just the community input they happen to like. There have been other instances where Craig had one idea, and the community another, and I believe that in all those cases Craig went with the community (technical reasons notwithstanding). I just hope he'll keep up the good work.

Just to play Devil's advocate one last time: this isn't exactly the same circumstance, where the devs had an idea and sought public opinion, molding that idea to fit the communities desire. The poll people keep referring to was not started by any dev; it was started by just a regular member of the board, same as you or I. They are not technically ignoring the opinions of the community because they hadn't ASKED for the opinion of the community in this case. As ED said, the layout had not been finalized when he posted it. Maybe, if given the chance, they would have continued to tweak it, and then posted an official poll asking "what do you think of this?" But they didn't get that chance, because they were swamped under waves of complaints. That's what I am protesting against: not that people are complaining about the layout, but that they are arguing the devs didn't listen to an unsolicited 6 month old thread that they probably forgot about and may not have even read.
My stance was, is, and will remain thus: no matter what layout is chosen, it will be wrong for my purposes, and I will be remapping the keys, guaranteed. If the choice were put to me, I would choose a "wrong" layout over my preferred layout because I know my preference is not for everyone, and I would give one that simply fits to the largest demographic.
And that's the last time I hope to have to voice my opinion on the matter.

 

[mali]

I personally would love a Regional Keyboard Layout, especially if Japanese is doable. That would make my life so much easier....

If it was even possible to custom order a keyboard layout for a Pandora to accomplish this (at additional cost) I would be very happy.

I second that. Devs, could it be possible (at additional cost) to essentially purchase custom printed keymat(s)?
(eg. I could have my own Finnish'ish layout with the Rexlia font)
If possible, how much would this cost?


It would be good to know the minimum quantity needed for a separate layout at reasonable costs. People interested could work out national layouts, collect followers and order them. I doubt, that it will be possible to order single custom keypads, but I may be wrong, though.

 

[Dimacus]

I don't see why people see different keyboard layouts as a problem for software developers.
As far as I know SDL at least uses the Os keyboard layout, so as long as you have the correct layout selected, there should not be any problem.

Just make it a generic international keyboard with compose and AtlGr hey maybe it wont make everybody happy but it is fair and it works in the most cases and has the greatest verstility.

I have used American and Brazilian keyboards (which are pretty much just american keyboards + AltGr and a couple extra symbols that can be typed with AltGr anyway)

Cluttering the keyboard is BAD it is already small printing more than one or two symbols per key is probably not good

making a default keyboard designed to cater to specific demographic groups is bad ... Compose + AltGr is the ONLY truly fair option IMO

Personally there is another reaon to include a generic intl Compose + AltGr.... hypothetically speaking what if I a US citizen want to type non US characters I do have to type in portugese on occasion so even a US gereric keyboard is not fair?

I realise this is all kind of silly since many will remap their keys anyway but yeah... Compose + AltGr is the way to go



A Compose + AltGr + x combination isn't a very good solution for thumb typing since you often need more than two fingers to use them, or at least 'on-the-go', when you cant put it down and sort of touch type.

 

[Monk]

Hmm... if OP are ordering 4000 andora1: 's and are expecting to get 500 or fewer failures and are still trying to make up about 300 more orders. it seems to me that about 350 votes (369, whatever - ballpark figure) would be about 10% of the current customer base. For the first batch.

I wonder how many would be required for it to be "statistically significant"? (though I generally hold that most statistics are the biggest lies out there, their examination can prove useful if one does not rely too heavily upon them).

 

[peca]

It would be good to know the minimum quantity needed for a separate layout at reasonable costs. People interested could work out national layouts, collect followers and order them. I doubt, that it will be possible to order single custom keypads, but I may be wrong, though.

+1

A Compose + AltGr + x combination isn't a very good solution for thumb typing since you often need more than two fingers to use them, or at least 'on-the-go', when you cant put it down and sort of touch type.

Solution is called "sticky-keys". You need to press just one key at time, ie: compose then " then A and you get Ä, or altrgr then A for Ä, or deadkey ¨ then A for Ä. I am for one programmable deadkey as I need mostly ´, ˇ, ° and occasionally ¨ and ^. Someone else will need other diacritics. And finally - deadkey save one keypress against compose key.

 

[mali]

Hmm... if OP are ordering 4000 andora1: 's and are expecting to get 500 or fewer failures and are still trying to make up about 300 more orders. it seems to me that about 350 votes (369, whatever - ballpark figure) would be about 10% of the current customer base. For the first batch.

I wonder how many would be required for it to be "statistically significant"? (though I generally hold that most statistics are the biggest lies out there, their examination can prove useful if one does not rely too heavily upon them).

First, I'm sorry for my outburst

The problem with that poll was, that only people who knew enough English to participate in this forum were able to vote. Many people don't know enough English. It's not really a fair poll and the small number of participants shows it.