Regional Keyboards

[MDave]

QUOTE
i don't. and if you read through the thread you'll see that this is not a loneley opinion.


QUOTE
Not me.


Whaaaat? Most people prefer using a international US-UK keyboard layout compared to their region's layout? So it's like ... only mali that wants his german keyboard?

 

[Bronek]

Whaaaat? Most people prefer using a international US-UK keyboard layout compared to their region's layout? So it's like ... only mali that wants his german keyboard?

Surely there must be market for these extra keymats

 

[WizardStan]

FWIW this was my last suggestion for the keypad layout:

This is my favourite layout thus far for the sole reason that it puts the mouse buttons on the game pad and uses L and R for mod keys. Regardless of final layout, that's (at least partially) how mine will be remapped. Given a previous post from ED, I suspect this may require some partial rewrites to the mouse/keyboard driver.

 

[hch]

FWIW this was my last suggestion for the keypad layout:

This is my favourite layout thus far for the sole reason that it puts the mouse buttons on the game pad and uses L and R for mod keys.

+1 to that!

 

[Eolair]

FWIW this was my last suggestion for the keypad layout:

This is my favourite layout thus far for the sole reason that it puts the mouse buttons on the game pad and uses L and R for mod keys.

+1 to that!

Give me that.

 

[Monk]

FWIW this was my last suggestion for the keypad layout:

This is my favourite layout thus far for the sole reason that it puts the mouse buttons on the game pad and uses L and R for mod keys.

+1 to that!

Give me that.


And again. There IS NO perfect fit for such a small keyboard, but this seems fairly good even if the placement of some characters seems a bit... peculiar to those used to larger keyboards.

 

[DesktopMan]

As there's no chance of actual additional keys, imo it's not really much that of a use except for visual clues. Would be nice, but not that much of a priority.

In my case (Norwegian); the top row goes " uiopå¨ " and the middle goes " jkløæ' ", so even with a different print you can't actually add extra buttons.

I'd rather see a priority in providing key maps. E.g. Norwegian -> fn+a = e = æ, fn+o = ø, fn+a = å or something like that. Sure you can do that yourself but for end users selecting one would be much more practical.

Both would be excellent

 

[urjaman]

As there's no chance of actual additional keys, imo it's not really much that of a use except for visual clues. Would be nice, but not that much of a priority.

True.

In my case (Norwegian); the top row goes " uiopå¨ " and the middle goes " jkløæ' ", so even with a different print you can't actually add extra buttons.

My case (Finnish/swedish keyboard) top row='uiopå' (match), but middle='jklöä'
(btw, atleast on this Fujitsu Esprimo laptop there's dual print's on the äö keys (eg. also øæ) and (X.org fi map) they come up with AltGr-ö = ø, AltGr-ä = æ)
I had been thinking of the Fin/Swe maps as Fn-P=å, Fn-J=ö(or ø), Fn-K=ä(or æ),
so that the keys would be near their "original" place.

I'd rather see a priority in providing key maps. E.g. Norwegian -> fn+a = e = æ, fn+o = ø, fn+a = å or something like that. Sure you can do that yourself but for end users selecting one would be much more practical.

I'm thinking that i might be able to help with the maps (software) after the official english keymat&map is released,
it's just that i will have no way of testing (before I get my pandora that is).
Hoping that the english map will have Fn-free space for the "extensions".

Both would be excellent

+1

 

[nikkopt]

Fair enough, but once there is one regional variation it would seem to me to be unfair to not offer regional variations for other countries. So we'd nee dFrench, Italian, and so on versions.





Not really.. just insert these accents and letters on a keyboard ( ´ ` ç º ª ¨ ) and you will have one that suits LOTS of languages (portuguese, spanish, french, italian, etc)
PS: i didn't mentioned ~ and ^ because they are already on the layout..

 

[multiplex]

I think one standard layout would be better. Regional keyboards should be fine in theory, but in practice I'd expect there to be some headaches. Mostly because you have things like IM, where the mapping should be followed, and things like trackers, where the position of the keys matters more. Tutorials might want to say 'press the So-and-so button, and flash the key on the screen, etc. This is a familiar problem to anyone who has tried WASD on a Dvorak keyboard, though that shouldn't be an issue on the Pandora.

All I'm asking for is a single compose key on the standard keyboard. I think an internationally marketed product should have international support out of the box, and a compose key or regional keyboards are the only ways I see to do that, the first being a lot easier.

For my own purposes I think I'd manage even if it was shipped as "Das Pandora". I'd just like to see the Pandora be commercially successful, and think the keyboard would be considered a wart if it took too much fiddling and learning to set it up properly.

My 2¢ (AltGr+Shift+E), at any rate. I don't have any real objections to offering regional keyboards. I just think it would be wicked cool to be able to open it anywhere in the «western hemisphere» (yeah, I know), and just have to learn a couple of mnemonic keypresses to get all your weird local symbols, as opposed to getting told to read up on xmodmap configuration. Advanced users can still remap however they like.

(I don't think the warring factions disagree as much as they think, either. We can bikeshed over the placement of the alt button for two threads, true, but for this regional stuff tempers run high and people misconstrue each other in the worst manner. Anyway, that's for a different thread.)

 

[peca]

FWIW this was my last suggestion for the keypad layout:

This is my favourite layout thus far for the sole reason that it puts the mouse buttons on the game pad and uses L and R for mod keys.

+1 to that!

Give me that.

And again. There IS NO perfect fit for such a small keyboard, but this seems fairly good even if the placement of some characters seems a bit... peculiar to those used to larger keyboards.

+1
I like it somehow on first attempt. On second check I spot really peculiarly designed special characters ie ()[]@{}&#$ and so.

 

[greendots]

I guess people aren't paying attention?

It doesnt matter where mouse buttons are because they are not printed, you can put them on on game pad, D-pad, L and R.... whatever. The only issue was how control ,alt ,atlgr, and compose worked into (or not) the lower keyboard.

I dont like MWs layout because it does not have a qwerty like mapping on the number keys. I also dont like how the special function buttons are in the middle with normal keys around it. ie: wireless in the middle for no apparent reason. Enter+ fn should be utilized some how. Its also probably better to emulate a MMB with LMB and RMB.

And to Craigx's original statement: yes

 

[Edy]

FWIW this was my last suggestion for the keypad layout:

This is my favourite layout thus far for the sole reason that it puts the mouse buttons on the game pad and uses L and R for mod keys.

+1 to that!

Give me that.

And again. There IS NO perfect fit for such a small keyboard, but this seems fairly good even if the placement of some characters seems a bit... peculiar to those used to larger keyboards.

+1
I like it somehow on first attempt. On second check I spot really peculiarly designed special characters ie ()[]@{}&#$ and so.

+1, really
I'd suggest two minor changes only.
- Swap the symbols ";" and ":" (the "comma" key seems a more logical position for ";").
- Leave the Select and Start labels alone, without the "ctrl" and "alt" captions (they would still work as ctrl - alt).

 

[xaim00]

I had been thinking of the Fin/Swe maps as Fn-P=å, Fn-J=ö(or ø), Fn-K=ä(or æ),
so that the keys would be near their "original" place.

Hoping that the english map will have Fn-free space for the "extensions".

I'm hoping this as well. A few unprinted/unmapped Fn keys, will be enough for most country specific characters.

I made a mock up of a Swedish/Finnish keyboard for the Pandora (for fun). I am in NO WAY suggesting that this keyboard is used for the official. I want to make this very clear before i get flamed.

The placement of Å,Ä,Ö might seem a bit odd, but considering they need a Fn combo I think it will feel natural to press Fn with your right thumb and press the letter with your left thumb.

I don't want to clutter this thread with images so i will just post a link. Swedish/Finnish people might want to check it out.

http://i44.tinypic.com/6rt1tz.png

 

[Vorporeal]

Fair enough, but once there is one regional variation it would seem to me to be unfair to not offer regional variations for other countries. So we'd nee dFrench, Italian, and so on versions.





Not really.. just insert these accents and letters on a keyboard ( ´ ` ç º ª ¨ ) and you will have one that suits LOTS of languages (portuguese, spanish, french, italian, etc)
PS: i didn't mentioned ~ and ^ because they are already on the layout..


The two types of accents are there - just use ' (apostrophe) and ` (on the tilde key on a regular keyboard). They are both on all of the recent designs, and should be if they aren't. The circle can be provided by o, the umlaut by : (a colon), and the c with a tail by a c+, combination.

 

[urjaman]

I made a mock up of a Swedish/Finnish keyboard for the Pandora (for fun). I am in NO WAY suggesting that this keyboard is used for the official. I want to make this very clear before i get flamed.

I don't want to get flamed either; I just want to say that your map looks very good for a swe/fin map.

The placement of Å,Ä,Ö might seem a bit odd, but considering they need a Fn combo I think it will feel natural to press Fn with your right thumb and press the letter with your left thumb.

I don't want to clutter this thread with images so i will just post a link. Swedish/Finnish people might want to check it out.

http://i44.tinypic.com/6rt1tz.png


The only note i have for this is, that Fn-B seems to be free, and i noticed that ¨ (dead key for composing eg. ë) is missing, so Fn-B could be ¨.

 

[WizardStan]

I guess people aren't paying attention?

It doesnt matter where mouse buttons are because they are not printed, you can put them on on game pad, D-pad, L and R.... whatever. The only issue was how control ,alt ,atlgr, and compose worked into (or not) the lower keyboard.

I dont like MWs layout because it does not have a qwerty like mapping on the number keys. I also dont like how the special function buttons are in the middle with normal keys around it. ie: wireless in the middle for no apparent reason. Enter+ fn should be utilized some how. Its also probably better to emulate a MMB with LMB and RMB.

And to Craigx's original statement: yes

In this case, you're the one not paying attention
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?s=&am...st&p=699491
ED has said the L and R triggers are unavailable for remapping, since they're dedicated to the mouse buttons. That's why I suggest the drivers would probably need a partial rewrite to do it this way. I would love to be wrong, however.

 

[neko]

It doesnt matter where mouse buttons are because they are not printed, you can put them on on game pad, D-pad, L and R.... whatever. The only issue was how control ,alt ,atlgr, and compose worked into (or not) the lower keyboard.

I dont like MWs layout because it does not have a qwerty like mapping on the number keys. I also dont like how the special function buttons are in the middle with normal keys around it. ie: wireless in the middle for no apparent reason. Enter+ fn should be utilized some how. Its also probably better to emulate a MMB with LMB and RMB.

Yeah, I noticed that. At first I didn't like it, but then I realized the reason he did that was so that you could type using only your thumbs. The commonly used stuff is within reach of your left thumb while your right thumb is on the fn button.

Also I hope there's an easy way to swap the mouse buttons between the game pad and the shoulder buttons.

 

[Esn]

Sorry, I don't have time to read 10 pages.

In answer to the original question, I personally don't care, though I would not buy one. I do write in Russian fairly frequently, but I use a normal English keyboard to do it; after a while, you just remember which English keys stand for which Cyrillic letter, so it's not a problem.

It might make things harder for developers, though, if they have to think of different keyboard layouts.

 

[xaim00]

The only note i have for this is, that Fn-B seems to be free, and i noticed that ¨ (dead key for composing eg. ë) is missing, so Fn-B could be ¨.

Ah, yes I forgot that one.