Racism towards greece

[kabaiakh]

Misanthropy is the way to go.

Misentropy is the way agencies would like computers to go.

 

[klapse]

I think it's illegal to say anything unflattering to any group of people now, in merkelstan.

 

[Djoga'Ro]

Hm, I would have thought, she didn't even notice, standing in front of the mirror all day to practice saying Common Solution™ and smiling silly.

 

[ible]

it could be worse; you could try to helpfully suggest to a Ukrainian person looking for a spot to sit near the group that "we could annex those chairs over there."

 

[mius]

Good post, @Razy.

I had never considered, "Greek" to be a race. Nationality yes, but not a separate or defined race. [ ...] Am I a racist ass for not even considering Greeks to be any different racially from the rest of the planet's population of European descent?

It's common knowledge that modern definitions of racism include ethnic or cultural (subconscious) biases and therefore all related discriminatory actions, including speech. So opening with a variation of the good ole "But-but the Jews are not a race!1!!" just makes you look bloody pedantic—in the best of cases.

I continue to study economics, how markets react and I took great interest in the Portugal, Italy, Greece, and Spain. I have studied them over years as I increased my own financial certifications.

Arousing. But I humbly suggest you go easy with the hasty generalizations that were pointed out to you in the OP. Especially since economics is not exactly a discipline renowned for its scientific reproducibility... amongst other things.

 

[Caine]

just makes you look bloody pedantic—in the best of cases.

A bloody pedant? In best cases? That's racism against pedants.

 

[rohezal]

"It's common knowledge that modern definitions of racism include ethnic or cultural"

Ethnic yes, but I object the cultural part. There is no racism against gothics, punks, metal heads, hip hop kids or cosplay gamer groups. There is just prejustice and discrimation. Racism is discrimation based on belonging to an ethnic group with a distinc feature (like color of skin, shape of eyes, color of hair).

Anti Semitism is not classical racism, it is the (lunatic) believe that jews are a race instead of a religion (which you get if an ancestor of you joined the religion[which makes no sense in itself]). This people believe jews have literally superpowers to controll the press, banks, movies and govements and are inherently evil and will destroy civilisation. It is literally madness, while racism is often just a cheap way to feel better about yourself or to benefit financially. The nazis actually believed this crap and spend lots of material and men hours to find the last jews on an island and build railway tracks to murder them in Auschwitz, instead of using the men power and material to fight the second world war. Anti Seminitic people are lunatics, literally crazy.

 

[Swordfish II]

Good post, @Razy.


It's common knowledge that modern definitions of racism include ethnic or cultural (subconscious) biases and therefore all related discriminatory actions, including speech. So opening with a variation of the good ole "But-but the Jews are not a race!1!!" just makes you look bloody pedantic—in the best of cases.


Arousing. But I humbly suggest you go easy with the hasty generalizations that were pointed out to you in the OP. Especially since economics is not exactly a discipline renowned for its scientific reproducibility... amongst other things.

When a country is so deeply in debt that their credit rating is... Risky...they have to be bailed out how many times, and refuse to give up any entitlements that are unheard of elsewhere OR change to become solvent. Hmmm not a far stretch to say they are terrible with money, and will have even more financial troubles.

 

[rohezal]

"When a country is so deeply in debt that their credit rating is... Risky...they have to be bailed out how many times, and refuse to give up any entitlements that are unheard of elsewhere OR change to become solvent"

This is not how the european economy works. Germany and France are pretty strong and weaker countries could not devalue their currency or protect their productions with customs on foreign goods. There was also a high brain drain on greece engineers and scientist into higher paying countries. A term of the "bailout" was to sell all owned state airports and ports which make profits to rich people (greece and germans) and to buy 3 german submarines. Yes there are corruptions and dirty tricks, but there is a reason why several weaker countries have problems in compeding in the euro zone with germany. One reason also the Agenda 2010, where germany stripped away lots of worker social benifits, killed most its unions and removed a lot of worker protection. So the actual wage of a worker Germany (controlled for inflation) decreased in the last decades. Because Germany does wage dumping and paying less and less for retirements it gets steals jobs from other countries (which is bad for France).

 

[Caine]

I always thought France was at the top of the under-performing economies in Europe (France, Italy, Spain, eastern Europe, Greece,..).
It has a large economy mainly due to its large size, but it is not very competitive. Especially not compared to the Netherlands, Germany and until fairly recently the UK.

It has been my impression that instead of creating a common currency and then unifying economic laws, it would have been better if that had been in reverse. Now, becoming more competitive by devaluing your currency (beneficial for southern & eastern Europe) would lead to a massive loss of wealth in North-west Europe. Then again, I am not an economist so I am probably wrong.

 

[crazyhorse]

Sounds like its not the rich European countries helping the poor, but the poor dragging down the rest.

 

[rohezal]

"Sounds like its not the rich European countries helping the poor, but the poor dragging down the rest."

It is neither. The rich countries are getting richer and the poor countries are getting poorer. Germany gives money to Greece, forces it to buy stuff from Germany like sub marines with a big part of it and then wants the money back (or gets Greeces best ports and airports).

If you are a big export nation like Germany or France, and you are in the international trade organisation you are not allowed to subsidize ( to give tax money to) your companies to help them. But you can give an other goverment money and force this goverment to buy your stuff and subsidize your industry this way. And the best part is, the other goverment will maybe even give some of the money back. And all the good scientists and engineers will come to your rich country because you pay them better. But Greece will pay for their education for free for you.

And since they are in the EU, the can't protect themself with customs from your better products. And can't make people buy their own products by devaluating their own currency. And the best is, the EURO is gonna crash because of this. 1 Euro was over 1.50$. This was a catastrophy for Germany, nobody in the US wanted to buy a German car( this means it would cost 32000$ instead of 22000$).

So TL DR: Strong export countries get a weaker Euro, illegal industry subsidies (get even some of it back), qualified engineers and scientists from low income countries, and bigger markets through the Euro Zone. This is great for them. Poor countries can't compete with the products and prices, can't protect their markets and loose their smartest people and will get into debt. For Germany as one of the biggest export nations of the planet this is a dream come true.

 

[mius]

Ethnic yes, but I object the cultural part. There is no racism against gothics, punks, metal heads, hip hop kids or cosplay gamer groups.

You got confused here. I was referring to cultural biases, not subcultural biases.

Anti Semitism is not classical racism, it is the (lunatic) believe that jews are a race instead of a religion (which you get if an ancestor of you joined the religion[which makes no sense in itself]).

See my reply to Grench.

Anti Seminitic people are lunatics, literally crazy.

In a, from a modern perspective, clinical-pathological sense? Not necessarily. But that's another discussion altogether.

 

[Swordfish II]

"When a country is so deeply in debt that their credit rating is... Risky...they have to be bailed out how many times, and refuse to give up any entitlements that are unheard of elsewhere OR change to become solvent"

This is not how the european economy works. Germany and France are pretty strong and weaker countries could not devalue their currency or protect their productions with customs on foreign goods. There was also a high brain drain on greece engineers and scientist into higher paying countries. A term of the "bailout" was to sell all owned state airports and ports which make profits to rich people (greece and germans) and to buy 3 german submarines. Yes there are corruptions and dirty tricks, but there is a reason why several weaker countries have problems in compeding in the euro zone with germany. One reason also the Agenda 2010, where germany stripped away lots of worker social benifits, killed most its unions and removed a lot of worker protection. So the actual wage of a worker Germany (controlled for inflation) decreased in the last decades. Because Germany does wage dumping and paying less and less for retirements it gets steals jobs from other countries (which is bad for France).

I would love to see some sources regarding the supposed "brain drain," as well as the "terms" you state.
[doublepost=1509909597,1509909471][/doublepost]

Sounds like its not the rich European countries helping the poor, but the poor dragging down the rest.

Yep, brought forth by the welfare states rampant in those states. Look up what used to be the retirement age in Greece (~45) and the benefits. The entire month of August off, copious vacation time. A shit economy.

 

[Djoga'Ro]

Look up what used to be the retirement age in Greece (~45) and the benefits. The entire month of August off, copious vacation time.

We shouldn't condemn that, but learn from them.

 

[rohezal]

Terms:

https://www.heise.de/tp/features/Griechische-Milliarden-fuer-deutsche-U-Boote-3386247.html

Brain Drain (in this case Spain, but the situation was quite similar):

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland...Spanier-suchen-ihr-Glueck-in-Deutschland.html

 

[Caine]

We shouldn't condemn that, but learn from them.

What? Go bankrupt and race them to the bottom? No thanks.

 

[rohezal]

"Look up what used to be the retirement age in Greece (~45)"

This is wrong, the average retirement age is over 60. For state employes it became 56 when the crisis hit and most people retired early instead of loosing their job and get into trouble.

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/...iechen-wirklich-mit-56-in-rente/11939572.html

Please improve your sources.

Btw. if you compete against a stronger economy and can't protect your industry by customs, your economy by money devaluation and your engineers you are fucked. This is why China keeps its money way under value to make sure people buy cheap chinese products.

"We shouldn't condemn that, but learn from them."
I agree, an more early retirement age will be necessary in the future.

 

[Djoga'Ro]

What? Go bankrupt and race them to the bottom? No thanks.

My statement was in respect of what I quoted. I'm not saying, we should copy their whole system.

Let's assume for a moment, industrialization actually happened and that we actually reached a high degree of automation on top of the former.
Let's further assume, we'd ban every law that deals with intelectual property - getting rid of that silly preschool-behaviour oriented concept and with that of a lot of unnecessary workload, gaining productivity in terms of progress (yes, I'm rather convinced that collaboration is better than competition - the benefits of the latter you can still harness by forming several teams).
Let's then ban advertising. Whoa, the direct workload drop alone 'd be overwhelming. And then the indirect one after the calming down of the demand for the ever new-and-shiny.
Make everything essential infrastructure state-owned, not run by the government, of course, but commissioned and checked - not profit oriented, but output- and efficiency-driven. With closing thousands of insurance companies alone, we'd cut the workload significantly.
Then let's have universal basic income, already. That'd allow us to close all those social welfare offices and the like - yeah, again less workload. Plus it's really necessary, since their's actually not enough work to do to keep everyone busy, till (s)he dies.

Hm, I just realized, with the latter "retirement age" would have lost its meaning. So yeah, keep it high, if it makes you happy.

 

[ible]

perhaps worth linking again:
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/yvqqxw/who-stole-the-four-hour-workday-0000406-v21n8

our productivity has increased more than our pay:
http://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

i'm all for UBI (universal basic income). let's make it happen...