Racism towards greece

[Razy]

Dear Mr Mrozek / @EvilDragon ,

I started writing this post with the very strong feeling that my relationship with the boards and maybe even my commitment to the Pyra are in crisis at this moment. I've written this lengthy post because I want the entirety of this community (without exceptions) to become better as whole.

Anyone reading the news-posts is aware of all the difficulties you've been faced with, over the entire development of the Pyra, and specifically in the last couple of months. The sudden death of a young person, a friend no less, is always a tragedy. This must have taken a huge emotional toll on you, I believe that everyone here on the boards can empathise with how this tragedy must have impacted you. Also, your valuable property has been recently stolen (your bike, if I'm not mistaken?), and it's easy to assume that your main career as a videographer has its own set of daily frustrations, all of which you are juggling at any given time together with family and personal issues.

The entire Pyra community knows that when it comes to development and production, you obviously expect everything to be done by the book. As a credible businessman, you expect to work with companies that exhibit a level of professionalism. In my personal opinion, FormAction are a perfect illustration of how not to enter unexplored production territory, unfamiliar materials and large order quantities from new clients. It is never a good thing for any business to be as unprofessional as FormAction have been during the long-winded story of the production of the cases.

FormAction are a bad example. One very particular and isolated sample in the business world. In a free-market economy, emotional responses have no place when making decisions but sometimes that's a very difficult line to walk; we're human after all! There are times when we suffer personal and professional crises that test our limits. An emotional state can spill over to our decision-making, resulting in a lapse in judgement.

Perhaps it was during such a moment, Mr Mrozek, that you ill-advisedly passed comment on a "joke", unwittingly reinforcing a racial stereotype. As I have taken the time to explain in the above paragraphs, I can accept how emotional and physical fatigue can blur the boundaries between a joke and a stereotype. Unfortunately, there have been more such racist comments on this thread which have not been intercepted yet. No one has said anything about the elephant in the room. I know what a chilling effect bullying can have on large groups of people; because what is racism if not bullying of the utmost degree?

My entire family had to emigrate from Greece five years ago in order to escape a humanitarian crisis so insidious, the magnitude of which is little understood outside Greece, even to this day. A lot of misrepresentation has taken place in the international media, who vastly under-reported the humanitarian aspect of the crisis.

@comradekingu
@fusion_power
@Swordfish II
@Klumpen
@error
@Djoga'Ro

It is greece-o-clock in embezzlement land.

CHAOS in a GREEK company? No way!

Or because the Greeks, Portuguese, Italians and others take the entire month of August off, have poor services, shoddy workmanship, plenty of vacation, retire early with full pensions, and their stores don't even open until 11am.

In a world of scarce resources something has to give... In the Greeks case, it was their financial stability.

BRB, moving to Greece.

Now, I wanna be a Russian woman.

Notice how the Greek and other retirement age were established/changed during the start of their financial crisis (so Germany would bail them and the Euro out) often Greeks sought early retirement at 45.

Wait, if women live longer, why are they allowed to retire earlier?!

This being the internet, there are those (like the above) who feel they are in possession of all the facts: they are not. I am willing to forgive comments made in ignorance, because I will not sink to the level of reciprocating. I do not believe that the above are racists, but they have certainly made racist comments. This is their chance to recognise their casual use of racial steretypes. As aforementioned, I want the entire community, including those above, to become better as a whole. I'm not writing this to start an argument with anybody, I've witnessed and received enough bullying in my lifetime as it is.

To every one who has taken the time to read this open letter, I thank you and ask for your support and discourage your silence.

Sincerely,
Razy

 

[crazyhorse]

No wonder people keep reinforcing stereotypes, just read this on the internet

Those that are in Greece are infamous for tax evading and welfare abuse. I remember hearing a few years back how it was common practice for people to payoff doctors, who would fake their tests and get them into disability programs. Completely healthy and able pensioners at age 30 were a pretty common sight.

 

[Razy]

No wonder people keep reinforcing stereotypes, just read this on the internet

Those that are in Greece are infamous for tax evading and welfare abuse. I remember hearing a few years back how it was common practice for people to payoff doctors, who would fake their tests and get them into disability programs. Completely healthy and able pensioners at age 30 were a pretty common sight.

Are you quoting something? Or is this your statement?

 

[crazyhorse]

Quoting

 

[Swordfish II]

Dear Mr Mrozek / @EvilDragon ,

I started writing this post with the very strong feeling that my relationship with the boards and maybe even my commitment to the Pyra are in crisis at this moment. I've written this lengthy post because I want the entirety of this community (without exceptions) to become better as whole.

Anyone reading the news-posts is aware of all the difficulties you've been faced with, over the entire development of the Pyra, and specifically in the last couple of months. The sudden death of a young person, a friend no less, is always a tragedy. This must have taken a huge emotional toll on you, I believe that everyone here on the boards can empathise with how this tragedy must have impacted you. Also, your valuable property has been recently stolen (your bike, if I'm not mistaken?), and it's easy to assume that your main career as a videographer has its own set of daily frustrations, all of which you are juggling at any given time together with family and personal issues.

The entire Pyra community knows that when it comes to development and production, you obviously expect everything to be done by the book. As a credible businessman, you expect to work with companies that exhibit a level of professionalism. In my personal opinion, FormAction are a perfect illustration of how not to enter unexplored production territory, unfamiliar materials and large order quantities from new clients. It is never a good thing for any business to be as unprofessional as FormAction have been during the long-winded story of the production of the cases.

FormAction are a bad example. One very particular and isolated sample in the business world. In a free-market economy, emotional responses have no place when making decisions but sometimes that's a very difficult line to walk; we're human after all! There are times when we suffer personal and professional crises that test our limits. An emotional state can spill over to our decision-making, resulting in a lapse in judgement.

Perhaps it was during such a moment, Mr Mrozek, that you ill-advisedly passed comment on a "joke", unwittingly reinforcing a racial stereotype. As I have taken the time to explain in the above paragraphs, I can accept how emotional and physical fatigue can blur the boundaries between a joke and a stereotype. Unfortunately, there have been more such racist comments on this thread which have not been intercepted yet. No one has said anything about the elephant in the room. I know what a chilling effect bullying can have on large groups of people; because what is racism if not bullying of the utmost degree?

My entire family had to emigrate from Greece five years ago in order to escape a humanitarian crisis so insidious, the magnitude of which is little understood outside Greece, even to this day. A lot of misrepresentation has taken place in the international media, who vastly under-reported the humanitarian aspect of the crisis.

@comradekingu
@fusion_power
@Swordfish II
@Klumpen
@error
@Djoga'Ro


This being the internet, there are those (like the above) who feel they are in possession of all the facts: they are not. I am willing to forgive comments made in ignorance, because I will not sink to the level of reciprocating. I do not believe that the above are racists, but they have certainly made racist comments. This is their chance to recognise their casual use of racial steretypes. As aforementioned, I want the entire community, including those above, to become better as a whole. I'm not writing this to start an argument with anybody, I've witnessed and received enough bullying in my lifetime as it is.

To every one who has taken the time to read this open letter, I thank you and ask for your support and discourage your silence.

Sincerely,
Razy

I was a finance and economics major, I handle, budget and allocate and spend large amounts of money in an ever changing fiscal environment and have for decades. I continue to study economics, how markets react and I took great interest in the Portugal, Italy, Greece, and Spain. I have studied them over years as I increased my own financial certifications.

I'm sorry you took offense to my comments, but in no way were they racist or derogatory, they were an honest assessment of a failing economy, based in facts, with a source to back it (I can provide many more). Greece needs massive change but refuse to do so. This company is an example of an overarching issue with many source analysis to back it.

Finance is my life. So if you need feel free to block me, but that won't change facts and I won't stick my head in the sand to ignore those facts.

 

[Grench]

I had never considered, "Greek" to be a race. Nationality yes, but not a separate or defined race.

But then I'm just a visually "white" (light beige), fat, mid-western US guy of very mixed and uncertain heritage.

I never considered, "Greek" to be racially different from any other predominantly or historically light beige skinned country and no different than English, French, Spanish, Norwegian, Swedish, Finish, Russian, Australian, American of European descent, etc... Does it make me racist if I don't see what you're on about?

Race - and racism both exist in the world - pretty much everywhere - in many cases where there is not visual or identifiable genetic difference in populations.

But, yeah - this is the first time I had ever heard of the, "Welfare Queen" stereotype getting used in reference to an entire country. So, maybe.

Am I a racist ass for not even considering Greeks to be any different racially from the rest of the planet's population of European descent?

 

[error]

This being the internet, there are those (like the above) who feel they are in possession of all the facts: they are not. I am willing to forgive comments made in ignorance, because I will not sink to the level of reciprocating. I do not believe that the above are racists, but they have certainly made racist comments. This is their chance to recognise their casual use of racial steretypes. As aforementioned, I want the entire community, including those above, to become better as a whole. I'm not writing this to start an argument with anybody, I've witnessed and received enough bullying in my lifetime as it is.

I know literally nothing about Greece or its current situation except for the information I've seen in this thread. My post was merely indicating that, if it is a true statement that they have a lax work schedule, long vacations, and paid pension plans, then I would like to live there - regardless of any other factors (I actually redacted the negative part from the quote). I haven't paid much attention to international politics because I've been preoccupied with all the politics in the US lately. I did not intend for my comment to offend, and I'm sorry if it has offended you.

 

[CFWhitman]

I work for a company that does aluminum extrusions, and I know that if you are a small account with low volumes of metal on order, your order can be knocked around by the companies that have high volume orders. Fortunately, we have four presses, which makes it so some of the less capable presses can be used more on lower volume orders (we also have another location that has at least two more presses, though it is quite far away). Still, lower volume orders are low priority compared to where the bulk of the money is made.

I'm guessing that a lot of the difference between the two companies for cases is that FormAction only has two machines, so high bulk orders have to be prioritized, and they are unlikely to get to a relatively small order very quickly at all. It's quite possible that threatening to take business elsewhere will not make much difference. However, the other company has sixteen machines, so they don't need to hold off on low volume orders in order to prioritize high volume orders. They can do both.

 

[Djoga'Ro]

Wait, if women live longer, why are they allowed to retire earlier?!

To make sure they live longer.

 

[Klumpen]

My entire family had to emigrate from Greece five years ago in order to escape a humanitarian crisis so insidious, the magnitude of which is little understood outside Greece, even to this day. A lot of misrepresentation has taken place in the international media, who vastly under-reported the humanitarian aspect of the crisis.

My entire family had to emigrate/flee from the GDR, why would anyone defend a country of origin that made one do that?
If Greece would be so great, you would hardly have gone away. oO
I fail to see the logic behind your patriotism (or patriotism in general tbh).

@Klumpen

Wait, if women live longer, why are they allowed to retire earlier?!

This being the internet, there are those (like the above) who feel they are in possession of all the facts: they are not. I am willing to forgive comments made in ignorance, because I will not sink to the level of reciprocating. I do not believe that the above are racists, but they have certainly made racist comments. This is their chance to recognise their casual use of racial steretypes. As aforementioned, I want the entire community, including those above, to become better as a whole. I'm not writing this to start an argument with anybody, I've witnessed and received enough bullying in my lifetime as it is.

Ok, I'll bite. How in the hell can my question offend anyone or be in any way "racist"? Yet again I don't see the logic behind that, like - at all.
I'm actually curious why women are allowed to retire earlier when they even live longer in so many countries, it doesn't make any sense.

 

[Caine]

Seems to be predominantly an East European thing to allow women to retire earlier. Probably related to cultural differences.

I do not see the logic in that either, nor do I see the logic why women earn notably less on average.

<edit>@ClockworkCoder makes a good point. I vote to split off this discussion.</edit>

 

[Djoga'Ro]

Assume you want to ensure men to not be alone and to be cared for to the end.
Let's say the most likely spouse candidates for men are women.
1) Make getting a spouse more attractive to women by letting them earn less.
2) Make them last longer by letting them retire early - which also feeds into 1).
3) Make it a tradition to have pairs, where the female is younger than the male.

It's so obvious.

 

[Klumpen]

Assume you want to ensure men to not be alone and to be cared for to the end.
Let's say the most likely spouse candidates for men are women.
1) Make getting a spouse more attractive to women by letting them earn less.
2) Make them last longer by letting them retire early - which also feeds into 1).
3) Make it a tradition to have pairs, where the female is younger than the male.

It's so obvious.

It's also completely toppled by the shift in social norms.

 

[vcoleiro1]

I work for a company that does aluminum extrusions, and I know that if you are a small account with low volumes of metal on order, your order can be knocked around by the companies that have high volume orders. Fortunately, we have four presses, which makes it so some of the less capable presses can be used more on lower volume orders (we also have another location that has at least two more presses, though it is quite far away). Still, lower volume orders are low priority compared to where the bulk of the money is made.

I'm guessing that a lot of the difference between the two companies for cases is that FormAction only has two machines, so high bulk orders have to be prioritized, and they are unlikely to get to a relatively small order very quickly at all. It's quite possible that threatening to take business elsewhere will not make much difference. However, the other company has sixteen machines, so they don't need to hold off on low volume orders in order to prioritize high volume orders. They can do both.

^ Why did the post above get cut into this thread?

 

[crazyhorse]

This is an "interesting" article, i do like the sound of early retirement!

https://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2010/02/greeces_generous_pensions

 

[Djoga'Ro]

It's also completely toppled by the shift in social norms.

'Was just trying to answer your question - not saying it would be implemented the same, if retirement would be a new invention today.

Back on topic: I may differentiate between races, but I don't think the others better - I swear.

 

[Xcl4m4t10n]

That's not racism. Maybe black humor (some people can stand it like black humor) but not racism at all.

Deal with reality.

 

[elw3]

That's not racism. Maybe black humor (some people can stand it like black humor) but not racism at all.

Deal with reality.

Nonono, NOW its racism.
Apparently the difference between jokes and racism is just that someone calls it racism.

Thank you Razy for creating so much racism here. I always thought i just like good jokes but now its clear to me that in fact i am a Nazi. Too bad that i have to shave my head now...

 

[Djoga'Ro]

Too bad that i have to shave my head now..

Hey, Skins ain't Nazis. It's just that Nazis are utterly uncreative, so they rob the styles of others. Stay Rude!

 

[illwieckz]

Assume you want to ensure men to not be alone and to be cared for to the end.
Let's say the most likely spouse candidates for men are women.
1) Make getting a spouse more attractive to women by letting them earn less.

The whole statement is wrong just because of the first point. In average single women earn as most as man. The ones discriminated are the spouses and the mothers.
The discrimination is all there to ensure women will not spend their time, strength and abilities in non-commercial activities, like taking care of themselves, loving a man or growing children. That's also why companies like Apple offer to their women employees to freeze their oocytes to ensure the can be full time dedictated to the financial machine. That's exactly the same reason why men are usually not allowed to have parental leave, or just have ridiculous ones: to ensure men will not spend their time, strength and abilities in non-commercial activities like taking care of themselves, loving a woman, or growing children. If a man want to take care of himself, take care of someone he loves or do parenting things, he will have to negotiate some reduction, like taking non-paid vacations. The whole point of these discriminations is to discourage both men and women to not dedicate them entirely to the financial machine : stock exchange does not have time for human love and parenting. The ones discriminated are the spouses and the mothers, not the women, and if you look how men are considerated at work, they are in fact all considerated as if they were single. That's because married men renounces to what they love they are paid as most as singles one. It looks like women do not usually renounce to what they love, hence the penalization. Both have the choice to penalize themselves or to be discriminated. It's all about that: get a life or get a salary. And it's not because of man discrimination or patriarchy or something like that, it's just because of the financial machine enslaving us.