Release QupZilla - Best WebBrowser for OP [IMHO] - BETA PND


Gruso said:
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I am 100% agreed that devs can handle their releases however they like. But I'm not too keen on calling people complainers because they have an issue with apps writing to NAND. As a general rule, apps should not be writing to NAND on the Pandora, and it's quite simple to prevent this when packaging up a port. I'm not trying to reignite the debate - we're all on the same page now and things are how they are - I'm just pointing out that the 'complaints' were actually important feedback.


Streak, I'm sure that whatever exposure you miss out on by not using the repo, you get back in these threads. :D Carry on.
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I totally agree that reporting that an app writes to the NAND IS valuable feedback and not complaining. The thread that I was referencing that caused the issues last time had a lot more than just that in it, but it seems we are all on the same page here now and we can move on.


Keep up the great work and thanks for the hard work on the apps Streak!
 
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It WOULD BE really nice if someone just only once reports that particualry app writes to NAND. There wasnt such a reports as far as i remember since many weeks. NULL - NONE. So what are we talking about, then? Surely not about helping to fix apps..
 
Hi,


I do have a FB account and I also liked your page, but where exactly can I find the links to your PNDs?
 
StreaK said:
Caine said:
Mr Rob said:
But in the end StreaK is right. As the person developing his PNDs, he can put them wherever he want, I have absolutely no objection to that.
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In principle, yes. But, that's not the end of the story. Let's take QupZilla as an example. QupZilla is GPL. Therefore explicit permission is granted to anyone to redistribute this. Anyone who has downloaded this application also has the right to put it in the repo.


Now, I won't do this. StreaK is providing us a great service by porting all this software and I respect his decision to keep this out of the repo. However, he cannot forbid it (same holds for making it available on the wiki).


Furthermore, StreaK is obliged to also provide the source of all his modifications (I cannot verify if this is available on Facebook and I'm not sure if the GPL forces that if the pnd is downloadable without login that the same must hold for the source). This is something that StreaK needs to verify, or alternatively he can include the source in the PND or a written offer to provide the source to whoever requests it.


For any software without the GPL or a similar license, you are totally correct.
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Ofcourse i can forbid adding PND to repo/wiki/anywhere, since pnd not contains 'only' executable GPL'ed source, but some custom made scripts / images or aything which is not GPL'ed. PND package dont instantly changes to GPL PND if i include there GPL compiled app..


I can provide sources if somebody wants it..
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Is GPL that easy to circumvent? If a PND is not a "derived work", which "can only be distributed under the same license terms", can a PND made from GPL sources be sold commercially?


I'm no lawyer, and I don't know what the right answer is, but I'd really like to get this clear. This is a pretty fundamental issue to the Pandora (and free software) community that we can't afford to be vague about.


(maybe a new topic should be started, so as to not mess this one up any further... or not)
 
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unless im mistaken, which is often the case, you are about as free to sell your gpl software as i am free to offer it for free right next to it
 
DaMummy said:
unless im mistaken, which is often the case, you are about as free to sell your gpl software as i am free to offer it for free right next to it
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But can I sell it and prevent you from giving it to anyone for free?


For typical GPL software, the answer would be "no". But can I do that if I make it into a PND?
 
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Esn said:
But can I sell it and prevent you from giving it to anyone for free?


For typical GPL software, the answer would be "no". But can I do that if I make it into a PND?
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I think that in this case, the Aggregation part is relevant. So probably it is allowed to prevent distribution of the package as long as the GPL'ed part can be extracted can made available separately.


Still, I'm so sure that also holds if the GPL'ed core relies on non GPL'ed scripts to function properly. I think the scripts are then absorbed into the software and are thus also GPL'ed. Then again, I'm no lawyer either.
 
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html is a fascinating read, and may clarify things up a bit.


In the end, I'm pretty sure if I wanted to, I could take all the GPL PND's in the repo's and upload them to a new appstore, and sell it. The reason it doesn't happen is because that business model sucks, usually. I do remember a case where people were selling copies of the open source project Inkscape, and all the blogs were up in a roar saying "How dare they do this! That must be a violation of the GPL!", and then realized that they in fact could do this. The business model then would be "Let's sell this to people who can't afford Photoshop but don't realize there's free copies available". Is it unethical? Probably. Is it allowed through the GPL? Yes. Is it the end of the world? Well, no. Free (with the original meaning of freedom, not price) software lives on.


I also do think the repo does have authority to remove applications it deems unfit, so should someone upload StreaK's QupZilla web browser (the original topic of this thread!) to the repo, the repo people can remove it, no questions asked. Would they? I don't know; probably if asked nicely.


Please correct me if any of the above is wrong.


At the end of the day, I'm not concerned about such a thing spoiling our Pandoras. Aside: XKCD has given me such a vision of Richard Stallman that I'm just waiting for him to swoop in and explain all of this to us. Richard, get over here!
 
Caine said:
Esn said:
But can I sell it and prevent you from giving it to anyone for free?


For typical GPL software, the answer would be "no". But can I do that if I make it into a PND?
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I think that in this case, the Aggregation part is relevant. So probably it is allowed to prevent distribution of the package as long as the GPL'ed part can be extracted can made available separately.


Still, I'm so sure that also holds if the GPL'ed core relies on non GPL'ed scripts to function properly. I think the scripts are then absorbed into the software and are thus also GPL'ed. Then again, I'm no lawyer either.
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There's also this part:

I want to distribute an extended version of a GPL-covered program in binary form. Is it enough to distribute the source for the original version?

No, you must supply the source code that corresponds to the binary. Corresponding source means the source from which users can rebuild the same binary.


Part of the idea of free software is that users should have access to the source code for the programs they use. Those using your version should have access to the source code for your version.


A major goal of the GPL is to build up the Free World by making sure that improvement to a free program are themselves free. If you release an improved version of a GPL-covered program, you must release the improved source code under the GPL.
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Is a PND better thought of as a binary or as an aggregate?


P.S. I'm really sorry for turning this thread off-topic. This is a bigger issue, so perhaps it would make sense to split the thread off starting from this post...
 
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Well... getting back on topic....


This QupZilla browser is fantastic!


I used it for a couple of hours last night and it it really works well.


No crashes and it seemed to format all of the pages I sent to very nicely.


It feels really "light" and "quick" on the Pandora, even with multiple tabs opened.


Really great!
 
What we're talking about is mostly that your software gets buried and lost. I have, now, managed to download the QupZilla pnd. Earlier tries were borked by either facebook or a bad server on the other side of the tiny.pl rewriter. Even now, quite soon after the announcement, the post with the link is almost below the cut on your FB wall, and the posts with links to pnds are almost indistinguishable from other posts, in particular posts that announce a successful porting of something that is not yet packed up and released. Given a week, noone will ever know that someone ported QupZilla - All traces will be gone unless one is a facebook spelunker. New users (who where not around when the announcement was made) will never know it exists.


In this way, the users of the pandora lose out on potentially useful software. Also the users lose out on the development history - There is no way of knowing whether this released pnd is a first attempt, or whether it is a third or fourth version after testing and feedback. There is no structured way to see and gauge other peoples reactions to this piece of software - If I download this now, try it out for a week or two, and then want to report my reactions - Where do I go? The FB link is long lost. This thread is on the second or third page. Neither of these contains some sort of rating or other at-a-glance gauge of quality. Neither is a persistent point of aggregation of opinions.


It is a shame to see so much development work go to waste.
 
bagmouse7 said:
Well... getting back on topic....


This QupZilla browser is fantastic!


I used it for a couple of hours last night and it it really works well.


No crashes and it seemed to format all of the pages I sent to very nicely.


It feels really "light" and "quick" on the Pandora, even with multiple tabs opened.


Really great!
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waiting for my pandora to be repaired, so wondering how this browser compares to jumanji?


cheers
 
Moxie said:
What we're talking about is mostly that your software gets buried and lost. I have, now, managed to download the QupZilla pnd. Earlier tries were borked by either facebook or a bad server on the other side of the tiny.pl rewriter. Even now, quite soon after the announcement, the post with the link is almost below the cut on your FB wall, and the posts with links to pnds are almost indistinguishable from other posts, in particular posts that announce a successful porting of something that is not yet packed up and released. Given a week, noone will ever know that someone ported QupZilla - All traces will be gone unless one is a facebook spelunker. New users (who where not around when the announcement was made) will never know it exists.


In this way, the users of the pandora lose out on potentially useful software. Also the users lose out on the development history - There is no way of knowing whether this released pnd is a first attempt, or whether it is a third or fourth version after testing and feedback. There is no structured way to see and gauge other peoples reactions to this piece of software - If I download this now, try it out for a week or two, and then want to report my reactions - Where do I go? The FB link is long lost. This thread is on the second or third page. Neither of these contains some sort of rating or other at-a-glance gauge of quality. Neither is a persistent point of aggregation of opinions.


It is a shame to see so much development work go to waste.
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Theoretically, this is what the Pandorawiki software lists are supposed to solve - to provide a list of all software that was released for the Pandora, wherever it was released, so that software isn't forgotten simply because it was released in the past and the original announcement is hard to find.


StreaK has generally frowned upon me adding his releases to the wiki list because he prefers people to visit his Facebook page (i.e. for Cli Love he allowed me to list the announcement linking to his Facebook page, but no direct download link). This does mean that his older releases get harder and harder to find as time passes since their release.


When he finishes his official site, hopefully this problem will be solved.
 
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It's a little unfair for people who just got their pandoras and may want to try his stuff - I'm all for developers doingwhat they want the way they want it, but I for one would be more inclined to write comments and make suggestions if I had acess to the software! Perhaps storing it on megaupload would be good, then he could delete it when there's a better/newer release (though I like having old versions available too).
 
I am unable to add bookmarks. They never show up in the toolbar or in the menu.
 
Cyberworm said:
Hi,


I do have a FB account and I also liked your page, but where exactly can I find the links to your PNDs?
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i had this problem for a while the facebook takes you to the info page rather than directly to the wall. if you redirect yourself back to the wall posts. Then the downloads are up as links in his posts. you have to scrole through all the posts ever made if you wish to locate all the apps. not to much of a problem for newer apps but its abit of a pain for the apps that were release a while ago, i am not complaining one stretch of the imagination, i love the fact streaks apps are loaded somewhere and i am glad we have access to them cause so far they have all been great. But it dont seem the most logical way to store the files it can be abit tedious to find them if youve never downloaded from streak or used fb
 
Thanks for the port!


Sorry I got confused: is this app writing to the NAND or to the SD card? Since I want to preserve the NAND, I only use apps that use the SD card. Especially for a web browser that can heavily write files into its cache. ;)
 
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