TitanUranus
Active Member
Has anyone ever actually looked at a piece of software they might really want and said "I'm not downloading that - its a beta version!"?
Mr Rob
Active Member
Ah, oh. I hope I didn't open any old wounds.
Darkknight512
Active Member
Caine
Hardcore Member
No, but for every piece of software from that Streak has released so far, I've skipped downloading it because it was not in the repository.
It's his choice, but I'm not going to dig through facebook. His facebook front page even says that you should search the repo for author Streak to find his software, which yields only three titles. I'm sure he has his reasons, but it's a damn shame.
[edit]@StreaK. Thank you for clarifying your motivation behind this.[/edit]
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S
StreaK
Guest
For everything we have a price. Im paying my free time to port some apps to pandora. Your're pay using "likes" of FB page for software i ported/compiled. If you dont want to pay the price, oh well.. you dont need to. It is easy to understand. Most of You understand that, but some of You just dont want understand.
I wanted interaction between me and users, so obvious choice was to use FB and not a simple page [like sebt3 has on sebt3.openpandora.org for example].
And for the repo: I will not put anything to repo in beta shape. Since all my ports/recmpilations are in BETA theres no way anything new goes to repo in this year / or next year..
I dont really care if app is perfect. I want only to be useable on Pandora, if it is, i'll release it [as beta]. Im not really a guy that polishes an app for months. For me it is waste of time. I really respect guys like Notaz or Franxis that loves to have perfect software, but im always saying: Its better to have 10 apps than 1. This is easy math to me...
Edit
Saying that "its hard for me to find your software on FB" or "i'll dont like to login to facebook just to download Your software." is not really excuse. Its affirmation to be ultimate lazy [no offence to anyone]. Create FB login its 5 minutes of work. Loging up... 30seconds. Find all my apps 2 minutes [max].
Conclusion: If any of You dont like my vision of distribution of my PNDs, please do not download any PNDs from FB. That will be best for me and for You.
Try to port an app for yourself, and feel on your skin how many hours can you waste on porting, then maybe you'll appreciate your own free time [and porter free time..] and how good your position was when You just download apps from FB instead of porting and testing by Yourself.
End of story.
I wanted interaction between me and users, so obvious choice was to use FB and not a simple page [like sebt3 has on sebt3.openpandora.org for example].
And for the repo: I will not put anything to repo in beta shape. Since all my ports/recmpilations are in BETA theres no way anything new goes to repo in this year / or next year..
I dont really care if app is perfect. I want only to be useable on Pandora, if it is, i'll release it [as beta]. Im not really a guy that polishes an app for months. For me it is waste of time. I really respect guys like Notaz or Franxis that loves to have perfect software, but im always saying: Its better to have 10 apps than 1. This is easy math to me...
Edit
Saying that "its hard for me to find your software on FB" or "i'll dont like to login to facebook just to download Your software." is not really excuse. Its affirmation to be ultimate lazy [no offence to anyone]. Create FB login its 5 minutes of work. Loging up... 30seconds. Find all my apps 2 minutes [max].
Conclusion: If any of You dont like my vision of distribution of my PNDs, please do not download any PNDs from FB. That will be best for me and for You.
Try to port an app for yourself, and feel on your skin how many hours can you waste on porting, then maybe you'll appreciate your own free time [and porter free time..] and how good your position was when You just download apps from FB instead of porting and testing by Yourself.
End of story.
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sverm
Member
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2010
- Messages
- 109
I'd like that. It might have prevented me from losing my firefox 6 when it got upgraded to 8 beta thround PNDstore, among a bunch of other upgrades. My mistake for not reading through the list of upgrades, but beta stuff should only upgrade if you choose to have betas.
fusion_power
Advanced Member
It's a good thing not to put "beta" Software in ther Repo so Streak is doing the right thing actualy. Of course it is not always easy to say what "beta" means with Open Source Projects. Many Software in the Archive is more or less a work in progress which we could call "beta". Some ports of "finished" Games may be ot Beta. For me, the Software just have to run and do what it should do. Beta can crash and can have low performance and bugs. "Final" Should be at least stable and without major bugs. 
The Repo indeed could need some kind of "Beta" indicator and all these stages like "Alpha", "Beta", "Final". It could help some people.
The Repo indeed could need some kind of "Beta" indicator and all these stages like "Alpha", "Beta", "Final". It could help some people.
slaeshjag
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It already has that.
Blue Protoman
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2010
- Messages
- 4,117
It does! It has Alpha, Beta, and Release. That info goes in the PXML itself.
Mr Rob
Active Member
Ha, yes, I recently found that feature because I wanted Frozen Bubble to be beta, as some things crash at the time I uploaded the first one. Which is why I brought it up in the first place.
But in the end StreaK is right. As the person developing his PNDs, he can put them wherever he want, I have absolutely no objection to that.
Caine
Hardcore Member
In principle, yes. But, that's not the end of the story. Let's take QupZilla as an example. QupZilla is GPL. Therefore explicit permission is granted to anyone to redistribute this. Anyone who has downloaded this application also has the right to put it in the repo.
Now, I won't do this. StreaK is providing us a great service by porting all this software and I respect his decision to keep this out of the repo. However, he cannot forbid it (same holds for making it available on the wiki).
Furthermore, StreaK is obliged to also provide the source of all his modifications (I cannot verify if this is available on Facebook and I'm not sure if the GPL forces that if the pnd is downloadable without login that the same must hold for the source). This is something that StreaK needs to verify, or alternatively he can include the source in the PND or a written offer to provide the source to whoever requests it.
For any software without the GPL or a similar license, you are totally correct.
you have to remember that some of us refuse to make a facebook account...just because. and the repo has a lot of standards, but they are very low and easy to reach standards, and many of us would "Like" if you put your usable by repo standards back up on the repo. nobody is making you do anything, and its only up to you to do what ever it is you want with your ports, but i, as a user, would dearly appreciate if they were up on the repo
S
StreaK
Guest
Ofcourse i can forbid adding PND to repo/wiki/anywhere, since pnd not contains 'only' executable GPL'ed source, but some custom made scripts / images or aything which is not GPL'ed. PND package dont instantly changes to GPL PND if i include there GPL compiled app..
I can provide sources if somebody wants it..
Caine
Hardcore Member
Hmmm. Interesting issue. I'm not sure to be honest, but it makes sense the way you say it. The aggregate package cannot restrict the license on its content. So at the very least somebody could repackage the app.
Regardless, if the only license referenced in a package is the GPL, then it is more than reasonable to assume it applies to the entire package (unless explicitly stated to what it does not apply). Neither your PXML (which, by the way, is by convention also included inside the PND itself) nor any of the files inside your PND refers to any license. Except copyright which clearly states GPL.
[edit]I'm just discussing this for clarification purposes, not to attack your decision to not upload to the repo. As I said before, I fully respect your choice.[/edit]
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Mr Rob
Active Member
True, but most people would realize that downloading his files from facebook and re-uploading them to the repo would be chaotic at best.
But even for GPL software, the source doesn't have to be available online, it could be a simple "Send me a PM and I'll get you a tarball of the source." I know my modifications to Supertux isn't available anywhere online, because I have no where to put it, really.
You don't need a facebook account to download them. I don't have Facebook, and I can download them no problem. Yes, there are convenience factors involved with putting everything up in the repo, but nothing is ever perfect, and I'd rather have them up on Facebook as part of StreaK's fourth floor development than not ported at all.
And to end my discussion, I say Thank you StreaK for helping make more apps possible! Even a simple port takes a lot of free time, and we all appreciate it.
Caine
Hardcore Member
Indeed, and poor style to boot.
If I remember correctly, the license requires that you either include the source or you include a written offer to make the source available through the same mechanism as you did the binary or that you will provide the source upon request.
Yes, this needs to be said. Enough license chit-chat for now, let's leave the issue at rest.
Thank you StreaK, for the continued and relentless effort in porting all this software.
S
StreaK
Guest
No need to thank me. Best thank You for dev/porter will be just using ported app and eventually help in hunting bugs.
which is another reason why it would be better if it was on repo. when you had your apps on repo, people found bugs, and went ape shit over them. im the first to say that it wasnt handled correctly from our end, but you could have handled it better yourself as well
fusion_power
Advanced Member
Oh, OK. I didn't noticed that. ^^""
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gruso
thunderbox
I am 100% agreed that devs can handle their releases however they like. But I'm not too keen on calling people complainers because they have an issue with apps writing to NAND. As a general rule, apps should not be writing to NAND on the Pandora, and it's quite simple to prevent this when packaging up a port. I'm not trying to reignite the debate - we're all on the same page now and things are how they are - I'm just pointing out that the 'complaints' were actually important feedback.
Streak, I'm sure that whatever exposure you miss out on by not using the repo, you get back in these threads.
Carry on.