Questions: A Small List

[1magus]

It seems that all the emulators i have tested run very poorly including picodrive and there is no screen stretch features on any of the emulators as of yet ,i think this is bacase they are gp32 ports and the screen display is smaller ,in time we hope all emulators take advantage of the pandora display.

Eh? Picodrive is fullspeed with VSync and runs everything... SNES is fullspeed for most games but is missing VSync and therefore tearing a little bit, same for Amiga, Atari ST.
C64 runs perfectly.
Scaling them to fullscreen would make most of them pretty ugly - they ran on a normal TV and the Pandora is widescreen, so the games would be stretched (and that's uuuugly).
I can't imagine that Picodrive could become better as it is - as it's perfect...

I believe most people mean fullscreen with the CORRECT aspect ratio. On the PSP all emulators have an option for this or for widescreen if people don't care. It won't look ugly blown up to 4:3 Aspect Ratio, why would we want to play our emulators in a tiny box? So in other words it takes at full screen on Pandora there will be two black box's on both sides, or the option to fill the entire screen which stretches the image off course. I do not understand why most of these emulators do not have an option for this, other than the simple explanation that they are ports from the Wiz so they do not yet understand to render @ 800x480 running 4:3. Not to sound rude or anything I'm sure porting emulators is messy business and difficult but having those options is something quite a lot of people are hoping for. I suppose a lot of people are like me who like to emulate consoles on devices like the PSP (I know I keep brining up the PSP but it has been my only device for emulation aside from my computer) and are used to certain features like fullscreen aspect ratio options and assumed that they would be included on these emulators. So basically EvilDragon you are not thinking outside the box here, yeah Pandora is Widescreen and SNES is not but that does not mean rendering a game at the native resolution is always the best option and having those options would be awesome because seeing video after video of non fullscreen is a tad concerning.

 

[LineOf7s]

Um, almost all emulators end up having the option to (if you want to) stretch the 4:3 display of classic machines to fill the widescreen ratio that current handhelds tend to have.

How about you wait until people get a chance to get around to implementing stuff before you go off on a rant about how they're not?

Careful now: your sense of entitlement is showing.

(and rendering a game at the emulated system's "native resolution" is always the best option. So ner. )

 

[thingie1234]

Using the WHOLE screen would look ugly though - SNES is 4:3, your Pandora is widescreen.

Eh? Picodrive is fullspeed with VSync and runs everything... SNES is fullspeed for most games but is missing VSync and therefore tearing a little bit, same for Amiga, Atari ST.C64 runs perfectly.Scaling them to fullscreen would make most of them pretty ugly - they ran on a normal TV and the Pandora is widescreen, so the games would be stretched (and that's uuuugly).I can't imagine that Picodrive could become better as it is - as it's perfect...

Strangely enough, as far as actual pixels go, the SNES is 8:7 - (256/224 or rarely 512/448)
The NES was (in hardware) 16:15, as it ran at 256/240. (North American, at least, but then it overscanned so you got an effective 256/224)

Of course, that's ignoring TV pixel shape, etc, etc, etc, but in emulation, earlier nintendo systems are more square than even a non widescreen tv. even the Gameboy was 10:9.

So a full widescreen, as close to all the way across while avoiding non-integer stretching would be 768/448 - 1.5 times wider than it's supposed to be.

And not just ugly.
Ugly as sin.

But if you really want to play "Fat Mario", then I don't think anyone should stop you.


Anyways, what I'm wondering about is the tearing. It gives me headaches. Like migraine level headaches. It's great to see vsync in Picodrive - but I'm wondering about any plans for the other emulators.
I understand that vsync is expensive - at least exophase has said so (I think), and I'm inclined to trust that suggestion - but is there a way to avoid tearing simply and easily that the devs have access to?

 

[1magus]

Um, almost all emulators end up having the option to (if you want to) stretch the 4:3 display of classic machines to fill the widescreen ratio that current handhelds tend to have.

How about you wait until people get a chance to get around to implementing stuff before you go off on a rant about how they're not?

Careful now: your sense of entitlement is showing.

(and rendering a game at the emulated system's "native resolution" is always the best option. So ner. )

Again somebody thinks that stretch the 4:3 automaticly means setting to fill the widescreen. Allow me to show you what I want in an emulator:
Game Boy Emulator Proper Aspect The video here shows a Gameboy emulator running on a PSP at a 4:3 aspect ratio filling the entire screen with the exception of the pixels that involve 16:9. Just because somebody wants the option to fill the screen does not mean they don't want to run the emulator at a proper aspect ratio rather than stretch the image to widescreen which is quite ugly.
Yes native resolution always looks the sharpest but most people never got to see games running @ native resolution since TVs take the output of a console like the SNES and magnify it to fill the screen, which to most is just fine

Also thingie I think most of these emulators are really quick ports and do not support VSYNC, and I do sympathize I hate screen tearing.

 

[Critical_Impact]

5. FAT32 is probably a good choice for compatibility. Ext2 is fine if you use your card on linux computer only (it's possible to read them on windows but it requires 3rd party driver). I have no idea why you can't unmount your card.

hm that´s a real handicap if you want to use a windows pc...
fat32 doesn´t cope with data files which are bigger than 4GB. will be there any NTFS-through-the-backdoor-solution in the future?

If you can format the card to ext2 using the pandora or a linux system you can then get access to it using ext2ifs. I've used it plenty of times when I was copying "things" from my PS3 and needed to store files over 4gb.

It'll make the ext2 partition mount correctly and you'll be able to read and write to it like a normal drive. http://www.fs-driver.org/

No problems installing it on Windows 7 - 64 bit either

 

[Tom`]

Again somebody thinks that stretch the 4:3 automaticly means setting to fill the widescreen. Allow me to show you what I want in an emulator:
Game Boy Emulator Proper Aspect The video here shows a Gameboy emulator running on a PSP at a 4:3 aspect ratio filling the entire screen with the exception of the pixels that involve 16:9. Just because somebody wants the option to fill the screen does not mean they don't want to run the emulator at a proper aspect ratio rather than stretch the image to widescreen which is quite ugly.

I don't understand what you're saying here - the SNES cannot be 4:3 without distortion, nor is the Pandora's screen 16:9. Unless you're talking about fractional scaling, in which case - the SNES is already being pixel-doubled to 512x448 - remember, the Pandora screen is 480 pixels tall, so if you fractionally scale to full height(probably computationally intensive and almost certainly will look somewhat bad) you'd only gain 36 pixels horizontally.

 

[LineOf7s]

Again somebody thinks that stretch the 4:3 automaticly means setting to fill the widescreen. Allow me to show you what I want in an emulator:
Game Boy Emulator Proper Aspect The video here shows a Gameboy emulator running on a PSP at a 4:3 aspect ratio filling the entire screen with the exception of the pixels that involve 16:9. Just because somebody wants the option to fill the screen does not mean they don't want to run the emulator at a proper aspect ratio rather than stretch the image to widescreen which is quite ugly.
Yes native resolution always looks the sharpest but most people never got to see games running @ native resolution since TVs take the output of a console like the SNES and magnify it to fill the screen, which to most is just fine

Also thingie I think most of these emulators are really quick ports and do not support VSYNC, and I do sympathize I hate screen tearing.

I'm happy to concede the point if I'm wrong, but that video just confused me more. Firstly, it's clearly stretched - which is understandable, since the Gameboy screen is much squarer than 4:3. Secondly, that doesn't look very 4:3 anyway. Thirdly, you keep saying "fill the screen" but then say "with the exception of the pixels that involve 16:9". That video matches what you're saying - it's pillarboxed (black lines to the right and left), but by what definition is an unfilled screen a "filled screen"?

Again, happy to concede the point if required, but... huh?

Also, again, the ability to do this (if it's something someone wants to do) has been present in (at least) GP2X emulators for these systems. It's not generally something developers are morally opposed to. You'll note, however, the GP2X has been out for more than a week. Happily for me (and you, I dare say, if you ever got around to ordering one), the emulators and other softwares for the Pandora will be a lot more mature by the time I have the opportunity to use them.

In the meantime, people either wait... or learn to code.

tl;dr version: The ability to stretch the screen (to 4:3 or beyond) will come.

 

[1magus]

I was looking for this word pillarboxed, that is what I am talking about when I mean stretch to full screen. So if I said stretched to widescreen than I mean filling the entire screen by ruining the aspect ratio. I am not an expert on Aspect Ratio's but I do live in America and to me 16:9 and 16:10 = Widescreen. 4:3 = Fullscreen. I'am aware that all consoles have different resolutions they render @, what I want is an option for native resolution a option for pillarboxed a option for widescreen fill. This is as simple as I can explain it I never said anything about the resolution of the consoles and do not wish to get into a debate about that. If the SNES is a lower resolution than the Pandora like you said than there should be no problem stretching it slightly to a pillarbox style.

 

[1magus]

Again somebody thinks that stretch the 4:3 automaticly means setting to fill the widescreen. Allow me to show you what I want in an emulator:
Game Boy Emulator Proper Aspect The video here shows a Gameboy emulator running on a PSP at a 4:3 aspect ratio filling the entire screen with the exception of the pixels that involve 16:9. Just because somebody wants the option to fill the screen does not mean they don't want to run the emulator at a proper aspect ratio rather than stretch the image to widescreen which is quite ugly.

I don't understand what you're saying here - the SNES cannot be 4:3 without distortion, nor is the Pandora's screen 16:9. Unless you're talking about fractional scaling, in which case - the SNES is already being pixel-doubled to 512x448 - remember, the Pandora screen is 480 pixels tall, so if you fractionally scale to full height(probably computationally intensive and almost certainly will look somewhat bad) you'd only gain 36 pixels horizontally.

Um ok? Let me bring up the PSP again, you have an option for 1:1 native SNES resolution and than an option to enlarge the it to either WIDE SCREEN or FULL SCREEN and when it becomes full screen it looks just find. When under full screen mode SNES games look just find and do not suffer from any distortion that I can see. I do not know what fractional scaling means but I'm talking about simply enlarging the image which should not be computationally intensive in any way.
Basicly what I'm saying is I want the image to be rendered pillarbox style on the Pandora which should be fine for the snes using the SNES's aspect ratio (I dont care if this is 4:3 or not I do know this is not widescreen aspect so there will be to black boxs)
I just used paint to make a 800x480 image and than took a 512x448 image pasting that inside and now I understand what you mean that enlarging it is not much gain but still I would prefer it.

 

[LineOf7s]

Oftentimes, emulators can commonly display things three ways:

• Where one pixel matches one pixel in the emulated display. This makes is very crisp, but (these days) often very small.
• Where the emulated display is 'zoomed' to get as big as it can WHILST KEEPING THE ORIGINAL ASPECT RATIO. This is the most common way people tend to do it because it's nice and big without Mario (for example) looking like Jabba The Hutt.
• Where the emulated display is stretched to fill the machine's screen entirely, regardless of aspect ratio. This isn't too bad for something like SNES or Gameboy being stretch to a 4:3 display (like on the GP2X for example) because they're not too far off of it to start with. Stretching them to fill a 'widescreen' display like on the Pandora though would be almost universally hideous.

Now, (unhelpfully) I don't know what the current emulators are doing on the Pandora (ED does - I choose to believe him), but I know that if you keep referring to a 4:3 display on a widescreen LCD as "FULL SCREEN", there's gonna be a helluva lot of confusion that's not gonna end in your favour. From what you're saying, I suspect you mean the second option above (which, again, I don't know how it matches what that PSP is doing in the video you linked to. I don't know WHAT that is.)

The good news is: it'll all work out. Yay!

 

[1magus]

Oftentimes, emulators can commonly display things three ways:

• Where one pixel matches one pixel in the emulated display. This makes is very crisp, but (these days) often very small.
• Where the emulated display is 'zoomed' to get as big as it can WHILST KEEPING THE ORIGINAL ASPECT RATIO. This is the most common way people tend to do it because it's nice and big without Mario (for example) looking like Jabba The Hutt.
• Where the emulated display is stretched to fill the machine's screen entirely, regardless of aspect ratio. This isn't too bad for something like SNES or Gameboy being stretch to a 4:3 display (like on the GP2X for example) because they're not too far off of it to start with. Stretching them to fill a 'widescreen' display like on the Pandora though would be almost universally hideous.

Now, (unhelpfully) I don't know what the current emulators are doing on the Pandora (ED does - I choose to believe him), but I know that if you keep referring to a 4:3 display on a widescreen LCD as "FULL SCREEN", there's gonna be a helluva lot of confusion that's not gonna end in your favour. From what you're saying, I suspect you mean the second option above (which, again, I don't know how it matches what that PSP is doing in the video you linked to. I don't know WHAT that is.)

The good news is: it'll all work out. Yay!

It is the second option, and I do not understand the 3rd when it comes to a non widescreen device unless you mean it zooms in without caring about preserving all pixels (as in kills off some pixels). As for the PSP link it is the second option I know the video is blurry but the PSP is a widescreen device. I'm sure it will all work out in the end. Also I should note that the second option (atleast on a PSP as a low resolution device of 480x272) is still pretty sharp.

 

[LineOf7s]

Well just to address your point about the third option, on the GP2X (which is what I have first-hand experience with), the GameBoy itself has a 'more square' aspect ratio than the GP2X does (ie the GP2X is more 'widescreen' than a Gameboy, even though the GP2X only has a 4:3 'non-widescreen' screen).

It doesn't chop any bits of the Gameboy screen off; rather, it'll make it as big as it can vertically, and the stretch the entire display horizontally to fill the vacant bits at the side of the GP2X screen. Not too bad, because the Gameboy is only a lil bit smaller than the 4:3 of the GP2X.

Imagine doing the same thing on the big-ass widescreen of a Pandora though. Ewww. And not because of any blur.

The PSP is also widescreen, and the video you showed indicates that the emulator doesn't stretch it to fill that widescreen to the edges (which is good), but it *is* stretching it at least a bit, and makes it much wider than the Gameboy screen should be. I imagine it's stretching to fill a 4:3 ratio. If it were doing it "properly" (ie the way many (most?) people seem to like it), it would be skinnier again than what it already is, to properly match the 'Gameboy look'.

 

[1magus]

I have never noticed any emulator running on my PSP to be too wide when running enlarged to 4:3. I just want it to fill the entire vertical aspect of the Pandora screen, what is wrong with that?

 

[LineOf7s]

Nothing wrong with that. The 'entire vertical aspect' is how most tend to do it. Be on the lookout for that to be implemented soon.

If you haven't noticed an emulator on your PSP to be running 'too wide', then watch that video again. That's one.

 

[1magus]

Well whatever if vertical scaling will be implemented than I'm good .

 

[LineOf7s]

Group hugs.

 

[Sarlix]

*rubs eyes*

You've turned my little questions thread into a screen scaling debate!

It's all good though, lots of good info.

I for one would prefer screen scaling, even if it does look a bit stretched.

Better fat Mario than - omg I think I've got a cataract from staring at this tiny screen, Mario.

 

[gruso]

It seems that all the emulators i have tested run very poorly including picodrive

Picodrive was released?

 

[EvilDragon]

Anyways, what I'm wondering about is the tearing. It gives me headaches. Like migraine level headaches. It's great to see vsync in Picodrive - but I'm wondering about any plans for the other emulators.
I understand that vsync is expensive - at least exophase has said so (I think), and I'm inclined to trust that suggestion - but is there a way to avoid tearing simply and easily that the devs have access to?

Well, everything except for PicoDrive are simply quick and dirty SDL ports - and SDL doesn't support VSync.
I'm pretty sure someone will do it the same way as PicoDrive and use the framebuffer for graphics output instead

Almost everything is unoptimized yet - hell, the device is in the wild in small numbers only since a few days...
We didn't have that many things when the gp2x or GP32 had been released...

 

[Trevsweb]

cant wait for some full fat apps and seeing how much of the pandora cpu performance is free afterwards.