Pyra: The Phone That Respects Your Privacy?

[Silent-Hunter]

I think ED could get a lot of preorders if he markets it as a phone that protects your privacy. No google, no logging into anything, just Linux.

What do you guys think?

This was my dad's idea, not mine.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

You can't have privacy with a cell phone.

That's why many of us wanted a kill switch.

 

[Mr_Loon]

If the main purpose of Pyra was to be a phone then this would be a good angle. It makes sense to mention the respect of privacy as part the marketing campaign, but it would be nuts to market the Pyra as something it is not intended or designed to be.

 

[Urben]

What makes such a phone? I have a dual-sim asha nokia which is never connected to the web.

SIM cards arent running under my real name and I leave it at home during demonstrations because silent sms are somewhat state-of-the-art along the police.

Its more the way you use a phone other than needing a special phone. A old 10$ nokia is more worth this way than a 700$ blackphone.

Better look like a grandpa with no real tech in his pocket than a nerd with a expensive encrypted toy which might hold even more expensive sensible informations.

Thats btw the reason I want the pyra. I dont want to have internet and a telephone in the same device and still want to go for the form factor of the pandora.

I'm not sure if I want to use mobile internet on the Pyra, but I will use a good VPN at home or in public w-lans. I just hope no GPS sensor will be built into the pyra.

 

[DaMummy]

Let's not bullshit ourselves and try to market it as a phone first of all.

 

[matzesu]

To market it as a Phone will be make bad PR:


It ditnt have a Kamera on it whyle even sheap Androids got one, and the Phone Funktions should work, but the Pyra dosnt seems to be realy confortable to phone whit as long you ditnt use a Bluetooth Headset..


And first if all, the normal Homebrewhandheld Funktions have to be optimet first bevore somewhone can inplement the Phone Funktions..


I wants myself to use it as a Phone somethimes, but not everyday..


Just put the Simcard from your Phone to the Pyra and you can surv the Internet...

 

[comradekingu]

I dont know, the novena did just fine as a laptop.

I see the advertising,

"but but, it doesnt make for convenient calls, that you dont make, but but, that you dont get, but but, its the least bad. Ok then.."

 

[Silent-Hunter]

I suppose since I plan to use it as one, I keep forgetting that no one else wants to.

 

[comradekingu]

If it has any possibility of making/receiving and sending sms-es ill get rid of my s2 right away.

 

[Silent-Hunter]

I'm sure it will.

 

[Binky]

The problem is that, while the main processor can be secure and free from backdoors/spyware, and the serial+audio lines out of the radio module can be heavily monitored, or electrically disconnected, the radio module itself still runs unvetted firmware, and could (if you're paranoid) do a wide range of nasty things with the data going through it.

 

Whats more, the radio connection is almost entirely controlled by the tower (which necessarily tracks you to ensure correct call routing). The tower gets to instruct the radio controller about encryption, what to connect to, and a range of other things. Since anyone can set up a mobile phone tower, and the telecoms companies may not be entirely trustworthy, the only safe things to do is to turn the radio off (or some low power mode where it couldn't possibly have sufficient range to contact anyone) and to end-end encrypt any data you send to the radio module.

 

 

The side of privacy we can do something about is that where Android devices (for example) love to send everything to google to sync with your google account. That isn't about it being a phone, but about it being a device that can connect to a public network.

 

The Pyra will likely be a good device for instant messaging (whether by SMS, Twitter, IRC) but a poor telephone. 

 

[levi]

I just hope no GPS sensor will be built into the pyra.

It has a GPS sensor, in the 3/4G module. But you ought to be able to disable it by setting appropriate perms on the inputs, I'd have thought.

 

[Saber]

I'm sure to be in the minority here when I say this but I'd want the device to be without any wireless modules built-in. Nothing to do with paranoia as I couldn't care less about being monitored but I'd rather have it be entirely by USB dongle.   

 

[Natsu]

I'm sure to be in the minority here when I say this but I'd want the device to be without any wireless modules built-in. Nothing to do with paranoia as I couldn't care less about being monitored but I'd rather have it be entirely by USB dongle.

Why?

 

[pmprog]

I just hope no GPS sensor will be built into the pyra.

A GPS sensor alone isn't a problem. It's a readonly device for fixing your position. It's only if you have other network connections and software that passes off your location which is a problem

 

[Saber]

I'm sure to be in the minority here when I say this but I'd want the device to be without any wireless modules built-in. Nothing to do with paranoia as I couldn't care less about being monitored but I'd rather have it be entirely by USB dongle.

Why?

I guess because I am use to unplugging a physical cable at home with my ethernet. With wireless the only way I know I'm 100% disconnected to anything is when I shut off my computer and/or yank the wall plug. In wireless, the gui may say I switched it off but that's not always true as software can be buggy, and If I am out and about traveling, I like knowing the device I'm carrying isn't "conversing" with anything without my knowledge unless I choose it to.

Again, it's not about paranoia and tin foil hats, but about having complete hardware control over whether I'm networked with the "hive" or not, if that makes sense. I do use wireless often, but I prefer cable. 

 

[fusion_power]

You can't have privacy with a cell phone.

Barack Obama has a full privacy Cell Phone, so it's at least possible (somehow).

 

[ekianjo]

I think ED could get a lot of preorders if he markets it as a phone that protects your privacy.

You must be joking. That has to be the most impractical phone to ever exist if you advertise it like that. It's like trying to advertise that you can use a brick to replace a hammer. yeah, sure, it works, but that's just not the right form for the intended use.

 

[_jr_]

neo900.org *is* marketed as a privacy protecting phone and in a price segment similar to the pyra (with slower tech, but an with actual phone like form factor, keyboard, and open os). It still didn't get them even 500 preorders.

 

[Grench]

I think ED could get a lot of preorders if he markets it as a phone that protects your privacy. No google, no logging into anything, just Linux.

What do you guys think?

This was my dad's idea, not mine.

There is no such thing as a mobile phone that protects your privacy.  If that is your objective, it takes a lot more than that.

Yes, you can create an encrypted tunnel from burner phone to burner phone and then communicate over that channel.  However, the fact that those two phones are connected, the fact that they're burner phones, the fact that they're using encryption, the location of the nearest cell tower to each phone (if not the GPS location accurate to 3M) - all of that is impossible to hide.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to sift the data to find the confluence of those conditions as suspect and if/when they occur to monitor traffic cameras in the proximity from before and after the event.

If you want truly 'private' communications - including location and who is talking to who from where, buy your own satellite system and cycle packets continuously from 'everywhere' - and do the switching in the satellite without logging.  I doubt such a system would be allowed to exist for very long.