Pyra Face Buttons

[A Satelite Dish]

(I'd like to apologize in advance for the long-winded nature of this post, for I'm quite looking forward to this handheld)

Yesterday, I discovered the Open Pandora through a random three-year-old video review on YouTube. I have a soft spot for handhelds in general, but the Open Pandora is something that I thought would never exist but is still something I've always wanted. Kind of like a dinosaur mount. Or a baby Nargacuga. A functional PC the size of a DS? With a built-in controller? YES, PLEASE!!!

Enter the Pyra. Once I went to its webpage and compared it to the Open Pandora, my hype levels shot all the way up!

...until I saw the first layout for the face buttons in the second-to-most recent update.

Something that's always missing for me when it comes to emulation is either the extra analog stick, two additional face buttons, or both. When I read "six face buttons," I was expexting something along the lines of either a Genesis Six-Button/Saturn controller layout. Or even something similar to the 6-button Dreamcast controllers. Anything but what I saw in that pic of the 3D-printed case. The face buttons look like someone took the Wii U controllers and moved the + and - buttons as far up as they can go. Or like the TurboTouch 360 controllers, but with the turbo switches right next to the buttons. Either way, it's putting me off.

This is without any disrespect to the Pyra/Pandora team at all, for I highly respect your work, and I don't want anyone to take this as a nitpick. A big draw to the Pyra for me is being quite a nice little emulation machine in a handheld, which just so happens to be a fully-functional PC. I do have two hacked PSPs, but the OpenPandora's controls seem like an obvious upgrade from my PSPs (which I can then use as the pirate ships they were intended to be).

I'm not exactly sure what the purpose is of having the two extra buttons arranged vertically next to the four face buttons, but it looks like they can easilly be rearranged so that they're all diagonal from each other. I'd like to suggest doing just that.

 

[TrashyMG]

A select few noisy people wanted 6 face buttons badly, but there wasn't enough room to put it in a traditional Genesis layout without seriously shrinking the size of the primary 4 face buttons. EvilDragon came out with a compromise layout which is what you see. The Pyra is being developed on a shoestring budget so any radical redesign to fit in a proper 6 button layout at this point may be off the table. Personally I don't see much need of the extra two buttons as the Pyra will have 4 shoulder buttons vs the 2 the Pandora has... however ED claims these 2 oddly place buttons won't be in the way of the primary 4 face buttons so I can live with it.

 

[A Satelite Dish]

...there wasn't enough room to put it in a traditional Genesis layout without seriously shrinking the size of the primary 4 face buttons. EvilDragon came out with a compromise layout which is what you see. The Pyra is being developed on a shoestring budget so any radical redesign to fit in a proper 6 button layout at this point may be off the table. Personally I don't see much need of the extra two buttons as the Pyra will have 4 shoulder buttons vs the 2 the Pandora has... however ED claims they won't be in the way of the primary 4 face buttons so I can live with it.

I understand the fact that the size of the buttons takes the Genesis layout off the table, which is why I suggested having the buttons diagonal from each other (much like a down-sized RetroN 5 controller or, again, one of the 6-button Dreamcast controllers).

I also understand the nature of independent projects such as the Pyra to have a shallow budget, which is why I suggested a change in just the layout of the face buttons. Of course I'd like as minimal changes to anything else as possible. I don't think that's really asking for much. If it is asking for a bit much, then I can live and let live. I survived this long with using the PSP's analog nub and cheap shoulder buttons to play games like Monster Hunter and Peace Walker, so I don't think the Pyra's current layout will give me cancer.

I always thought the ability to legitimately play fighting games on-the-go was neat, but I never saw a proper 6-button layout or the necessarily-shaped d-pad on anything outside of the SEGA Nomad and handheld Genesis consoles that barely work. That's the main reason I'd like the appropriate 6-button layout. Also, the d-pad looks rather nice on the OpenPandora and (presumably) the Pyra, so fighting games aren't out of the question at all.

 

[_wb_]

For the sake of non-disappointment, it may be a good idea to advertise "4+2 action buttons" instead of "6 action buttons". Or "4+2+3", since there's also start, select and menu.

 

[DaMummy]

I won't judge it until I hold and play it. At first glace, me and many others doubted the location of the dual nubs. Looking back at it, I can't imagine a better place for them, and doubt Nintendo's and Sony decision on their nub placement these days. And as mentioned, 4 trigger buttons, so really the extra face buttons might not even be needed, but are just another option.

 

[A Satelite Dish]

I won't judge it until I hold and play it. At first glace, me and many others doubted the location of the dual nubs. Looking back at it, I can't imagine a better place for them, and doubt Nintendo's and Sony decision on their nub placement these days. And as mentioned, 4 trigger buttons, so really the extra face buttons might not even be needed, but are just another option.

I don't understand the notion of doubting the location of the nubs. I surely didn't mind that when I was watching the video review of the OpenPandora that led me here; they looked easy to reach and comfortable to play with on my end.

Also, I much prefer the placement of the circle pad on the 3DS to the nub placement on the PSP (over the d-pad rather than under+parallel to the face buttons). And while I don't agree with the placement of the sticks on the Vita, they're fine.

I mainly want to have the 6 face buttons arranged diagonally to have the proper configuration for quite a number of games I'd like to emulate, particularly the fighting games from the Genesis, Dreamcast (if available), Saturn (if it even works), and Playstation. Triggers simply don't get the job done for that. Like I said though, I can live and let live if it's simply not to be. The additional buttons would just serve as extra programmable buttons.

 

[DaMummy]

well playing fighting games on something like the 3ds with just 4 face buttons, and using the 2 trigger buttons as the high punch/kick has worked quite fine for me, id say even better then the 6 face buttons on genesis, unless its an arcade stick. but i know this is just personal preference. either way, ive, and im sure you have gotten used to much larger changes to a controller. just look at the the two additional face buttons as two additional buttons. as wb said, 4+2 instead of 6 

 

[A Satelite Dish]

well playing fighting games on something like the 3ds with just 4 face buttons, and using the 2 trigger buttons as the high punch/kick has worked quite fine for me, id say even better then the 6 face buttons on genesis, unless its an arcade stick. but i know this is just personal preference. either way, ive, and im sure you have gotten used to much larger changes to a controller. just look at the the two additional face buttons as two additional buttons. as wb said, 4+2 instead of 6 

Well, yes, I've had to adapt to a wide variety of controllers. I love the Saturn controller as much as I love the Wiimote+Nunchuck as much as I love keyboard+mouse.

I'm not going to dismiss what I consider an ideal setup for specific games, however. It is personal preference, and I personally don't like what's given to me for a 6-button setup in the preliminary Pyra. Also, I loathe playing fighting games with shoulder buttons. Can't do it. Couldn't do it with SSF2 on the SNES, and I couldn't do it with MvC3 on the PS3. I'm definitely not willing to play something like Sin and Punishment: Star Successor with a gamepad either, nor am I willing to go back to Monster Hunter on the PSP.

But, like I've said already, this isn't a deal-breaker for me. If a proper 6-button config is not to be, I simply will not play fighting games on the Pyra. If it seems like I'm blowing such a trivial detail such as playing fighting games on a handheld the way I want, then I'd like to shut down that notion. It's just something that I think is cool, and like every other idea that I think is cool, I think it's feasible now.

With all of the terrible, terrible s--- that occurs on a seemingly daily basis, it's nice to take solace in the fact that people can make nice ideas come to fruition.

 

[Tenka]

It's a surprise to see someone so dissatisfied with the four plus two layout without an apparent interest in Nintendo 64 emulation, the head of the reasons I want the proper 6 button layout.  It sounds very unlikely to change now though.  I don't think a personal case/button mod moving the new buttons will even be wise, because it would negate the proper functionality of every new "Pyra to be" game coded with the little buttons' placement in mind.  But perhaps few to no new games will utilize them.

 

[cuetzpalin]

For the sake of non-disappointment, it may be a good idea to advertise "4+2 action buttons" instead of "6 action buttons". Or "4+2+3", since there's also start, select and menu.

This is a very good point. At least this should force people to see what does 4+2 buttons means, and not expect a "standard" 6 button layout.

 

[rygD]

It's a surprise to see someone so dissatisfied with the four plus two layout without an apparent interest in Nintendo 64 emulation, the head of the reasons I want the proper 6 button layout.  It sounds very unlikely to change now though.  I don't think a personal case/button mod moving the new buttons will even be wise, because it would negate the proper functionality of every new "Pyra to be" game coded with the little buttons' placement in mind.  But perhaps few to no new games will utilize them.

N64 is one I would prefer the standard 2x3 layout for, but I prefer to use the real console/controller more.  For me it is more to play games for other systems, such as my seemingly vanished Sega Genesis, or maybe some MAME stuff.  There are some games I haven't played in years that would greatly benefit from that button layout.  I suppose I could try to get my USB controller working on my Pandora.

 

[Tenka]

It's a surprise to see someone so dissatisfied with the four plus two layout without an apparent interest in Nintendo 64 emulation, the head of the reasons I want the proper 6 button layout.  It sounds very unlikely to change now though.  I don't think a personal case/button mod moving the new buttons will even be wise, because it would negate the proper functionality of every new "Pyra to be" game coded with the little buttons' placement in mind.  But perhaps few to no new games will utilize them.

N64 is one I would prefer the standard 2x3 layout for, but I prefer to use the real console/controller more.  For me it is more to play games for other systems, such as my seemingly vanished Sega Genesis, or maybe some MAME stuff.  There are some games I haven't played in years that would greatly benefit from that button layout.  I suppose I could try to get my USB controller working on my Pandora.

The moment you need to use a USB controller you may as well be using a laptop.  Maybe we can buy extra external stick-on buttons we'd just need to run wires to.  But the Pyra even with a 2x3 layout wouldn't feel close enough to a N64 controller for N64 gaming to you?  Is it the non central joystick?

 

[rygD]

Quite right on the USB controller.  Thanks for preventing me from pointlessly wasting time.

I spend a lot of my N64 time playing Perfect Dark, and prefer the dual controller scheme.  With this and other games the standard controller is what I have always used, and it works well for me.  I haven't really tried bouncing back and forth with different styles of control for the same games to know if it would impact my performance.  For games I haven't put massive amounts of time into it would not be a problem to use a different layout for controls.  Regarding the central joystick, that is one part of it.  As goofy as the thing looks (even worse when using the joystick), I just really like it, but it isn't just the controller.  I like using the original hardware in general.  I often carry around a Game Boy with me, even when carrying my Pandora.  Lately I haven't had much time for games, but lugging around the little bit of extra weight is good exercise, or something.

 

[vcoleiro1]

The GPD G7 which has been out for some time now , has a 6 button arrangement.  Not an arrangement that could be used on the Pyra, Ive always felt that its extra buttons look tacked on also.  When I saw the Pyra 6 button arrangement, I had the same feeling.  I wonder if the extra buttons will be more of a put off and potential obstruction than benefit. Hopefully more of a benefit

 

[levi]

This topic has infected most of the recent news threads, so don't be surprised if the arguments are a little short.

Personally I was quite disappointed when I saw the Pyra's face button layout.  I'd been in favour of a proper 6 button layout, but only if it would fit and when I saw the prototyped design I was quite taken aback.  But thinking on it, and ED's defense of his design over those many threads, I'm convinced that it's probably better having 6 face buttons in an odd layout than having to use two triggers for the extra buttons when you're playing DarkStalkers, and if it isn't you've still got four triggers now so you can use the diamond plus two shoulders, and still have two shoulder space to emulate the Genesis controller.

I'm honestly not sure which layout I'll prefer yet, but at least I'll have two chances to find something I can use.  And I don't even like Capcom fighters that much, I far prefer SNK or Sega fighters which AFAIK only ever used four buttons.

 

[DatNOBoi]

Yeah, that put me off quite a bit as well. I'm not too worked up about it though; I don't even play fighting games all that much. Hell, I might get the Pyra long after its release anyway, so I have no reason to be worked up about it.

But back to you. I can see why that's so aggrevating, but I can see how the creator was so hard-pressed for a 6-button config. IMO, (s)he/they should've left it at four. If they knew that 6 wouldn't fit like it would on a Genesis controller, why did they do it? Hmm. Community outcry? Idk.

 

[Majin Wamu]

The GPD G7 which has been out for some time now , has a 6 button arrangement.  Not an arrangement that could be used on the Pyra, Ive always felt that its extra buttons look tacked on also.  When I saw the Pyra 6 button arrangement, I had the same feeling.  I wonder if the extra buttons will be more of a put off and potential obstruction than benefit. Hopefully more of a benefit

I don't mean to change the subject but that is an interesting looking device. I looked up a quick video youtube and it seems pretty neat. How does it compare to the Pandora? I read the dimensions aren't the greatest. Is it worth picking up, even for a Pandora owner or should I pass it up?

Anyways back on topic, to be honest this topic brings up a good point about the position of the mini face buttons. I didn't even think of them getting in the way because the whole time I have been quite pleased with the entire Pyra project from the start. If the buttons was to get in the way (which I highly doubt they will) just reconfigure the button (emulator) controls until you find a comfortable layout. With two extra buttons, the more options you have, and the many different combinations you can create. So for instance I like to use the south button to jump, no matter what the game it. And I always use the west button to attack or do an action. So if the Southwest button was to get in the way by my thumb hitting it accidentally as I try to hit the west button, I will just set the southwest button as my action button instead and no harm done to the gaming experience. Really, what I might do is set the southwest button as a target button, and the west button as the shoot button for games like Mega Man Legends.