Pyra dock connections.

[Grench]

I had suggested this before - but it's likely lost in the threads somewhere.

Have a manual switch on the dock to flip the OTG port between host and device.  Then have a type B USB 3.0 port that is only active when switched to device mode.

Something more complex would be to have a USB 3.0 hub in the dock that flips to run on a USB 2.0 port if/when the switch is in device mode.

All of that complicates the idea of having a gigabit port.

In the end, though, for simplification, I would just as soon have the dock ONLY run as a USB 3.0 host with a gigabit port and 3  USB 3.0 host ports on an internal hub.

As for the eSATA port and an in-hub HDD &/or slim optical bay...  I like the idea, but I think that one slim & wide SATA slot for optical plus a 2.5" HDD caddie/adapter could be interchangeable in a single bay.  I don't think the dock needs to be large enough to hold both at once.  The big drawback to this is it would preempt having the eSATA port come out of the dock with a 12VDC rail - which may be of more benefit than having an internal drive.

How about keeping the dock as more or less a port replicator/expander + USB 3.0 hub with gigabit ethernet (run off of the USB 3.0 hub)?  That would enable the eSATA port to be plugged into anything from an external DVD drive through commercial RAID DASD hardware.  So it would potentially work with this:

http://www.amazon.com/Port-Multiplier-SATA-hardware-controller/dp/B004JPHAF0

There are cheaper examples of this type of hardware - I linked to this one because it is easy to understand.

Meaning that you could put that into an old PC case, load it with 5 4TB drives, configure it out as a RAID array and have a Pyra connected to a 20TB partition.  Pyra server.

So, if we keep the 'dock' relatively simple, it may be more versatile. To do this:

1.  No USB 3.0 Device  mode on dock.

2.  USB 3.0 (4) port hub with 1 port pre-dedicated to a 1000Mbit (gigabit) ethernet connection.

3.  2 USB 2.0 ports brought through.

4.  Micro HDMI brought through as a full sized HDMI port.

5.  eSATA brought through and a 12VDC rail added to complete the spec.  Yes, this means that the dock power supply would need to be different than the Pyra's.  This has to happen anyway to be able to power the additional ports on the dock.  I recommend that the dock be supplied 12VDC and convert to 5VDC.

6.  Serial from the charging port brought through to a 'standard' full sized serial port.

7.  Headphone/mic port brought through.

Since all of those ports are female on the Pyra, the dock is going to look like a porcupine.  That is a lot of ports to line up perfectly on inserting the Pyra into the dock.  All of the port spacing on the Pyra and the dock will have to be VERY accurate both in position and entry angle.  It could also be a fair amount of insertion force to overcome when seating the Pyra in the dock.  If the location, angle and even depth of any of the connectors are off much at all it could lead to damage.  So, maybe the dock needs to be a bit wider than the base of the Pyra with curbs on the sides to act as placement guides during insertion.  I would actually suggest using a pair of guide rods (think stainless nails) to ensure that the alignment is perfect before all of those ports get mated - but I'm struggling to figure out where they would fit inside the Pyra itself.

 

[comradekingu]

I dont think im considering the full ramifications, but:

Would it not make more sense to have the switch as per pressing the powersettings button? 

If it is all software you dont run into the problem where one program requires the port to be in one mode, while unable to do anything about changing it.

Also i think as much non-custom as possible will mean the dock works also with other things, in the sense that it isnt proprietarily tied to a specific device.

Edit: some space in the dock with or without extra pins to hack in extra functionality and devices would rock.

 

[Neelix]

Would it not make more sense to have the switch as per pressing the powersettings button?

If it is all software you dont run into the problem where one program requires the port to be in one mode, while unable to do anything about changing it.

The trouble with that idea is that the same kernel module handles both USB Networking (device mode) and the OTG host. It would make more sense to switch it by detecting if a foreign USB host is attached to a wide microUSB port on the dock, and putting it in Device mode if there is.

Also i think as much non-custom as possible will mean the dock works also with other things, in the sense that it isnt proprietarily tied to a specific device.

The physical dock has to be custom to fit the port layout on the back of the Pyra. Nothing else will use that exact port layout, and if you can't just slide the Pyra into the dock, then it kind of defeats the purpose of using one to begin with.

- Neelix

 

[thatgui]

Since all of those ports are female on the Pyra, the dock is going to look like a porcupine.  That is a lot of ports to line up perfectly on inserting the Pyra into the dock.  All of the port spacing on the Pyra and the dock will have to be VERY accurate both in position and entry angle.  It could also be a fair amount of insertion force to overcome when seating the Pyra in the dock.  If the location, angle and even depth of any of the connectors are off much at all it could lead to damage.  So, maybe the dock needs to be a bit wider than the base of the Pyra with curbs on the sides to act as placement guides during insertion.  I would actually suggest using a pair of guide rods (think stainless nails) to ensure that the alignment is perfect before all of those ports get mated - but I'm struggling to figure out where they would fit inside the Pyra itself.

Finally I am not alone in this. I had the rod aligment idea too (actually I "stole" the idea from a another (industrial) device I worked with a couple of times in the past), but figured that there wasn't much space left to put them (the female part) in Pyra (maybe between the ports and the shoulder buttons). But this isn't the ideal solution either as this only makes it easier on two axis, there is till one left you can go "havoc".

 

[bzar]

How about a fixture in the base part of the dock that secures the device in place in relation to the dock, then have the male connectors on a moving part that moves along rails into the fixed position pyra. This way the insertion force of the connectors can be uniform and exactly aligned with the ports' alignments.

Here's a horrible five-second freehand diagram of the principle that may clear it up:

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

^ Good idea, but I'm not sure about all the wires that have to be moved with that as well everytime the Pyra is docked and undocked...

 

[Granitehead]

^ Good idea, but I'm not sure about all the wires that have to be moved with that as well everytime the Pyra is docked and undocked...

How often does the usb cable of your mouse break?Moving wires aren't bad per se, and you have enough room in a dock to make them durable.

Sounds like a good but expensive solution.

 

[TrashyMG]

How often does the usb cable of your mouse break?

Quite a bit if it's my first generation Microsoft optical mouse.

 

[thatgui]

How about a fixture in the base part of the dock that secures the device in place in relation to the dock, then have the male connectors on a moving part that moves along rails into the fixed position pyra. This way the insertion force of the connectors can be uniform and exactly aligned with the ports' alignments.

Here's a horrible five-second freehand diagram of the principle that may clear it up:

Don't really see any real improvement, there is still a chance that the user pushes one side a little further/faster than the other while tryinng to insert the connectors.

 

[bzar]

How? The connector part is on rails so it shouldn't be able to twist no matter if the user pushes one side more than the other. It's like your idea with the guide rods, but instead of having the female parts in the case, they're on an exoskeleton-like dock base.

For added security there could be a lever system to move the male part with uniform force.

 

[bzar]

I've improved the design. The back part of the dock base is now a frame that stops the pyra from moving but exposes the connectors. In the frame there are four guide rod holes, one in each corner. The pyra is locked into the dock base, after which the connector part is inserted that covers the entire frame. The connector part is like one huge connector. The guide rods prevent it from twisting on any axis.

I'll try to draw a doodle today.

 

[dflatline]

Are you people seriously suggesting a dock for the dock, now?

 

[TrashyMG]

No

 

[bzar]

It's not exactly dock for a dock, just a dock composed of two parts. They don't really have to come apart at any point. Just move relative to each other.

 

[dflatline]

It'd be cool if you could slide the Pyra in the front like a VHS cassette, rather than slot it in the top like a toaster

 

[TrashyMG]

It'd be cool if you could slide the Pyra in the front like a VHS cassette, rather than slot it in the top like a toaster

I don't recall top loading in any of these prior ideas. 

 

[dflatline]

It'd be cool if you could slide the Pyra in the front like a VHS cassette, rather than slot it in the top like a toaster

I don't recall top loading in any of these prior ideas. 

Docks are usually top loading though...or at least I cant think of many that arent

 

[Saber]

I suggested months before the upcoming Pyra dock, instead of a basic slab of hub plastic, could serve dual purpose as a carry case. Svelte enough for compactness but rugged enough for protection. Kind of like a small briefcase that when opened allows the user to have the 5" screen and all controls accessible, but when closed, covers the device and the port pass throughs along the back edge. 

 

[TrashyMG]

It'd be cool if you could slide the Pyra in the front like a VHS cassette, rather than slot it in the top like a toaster

I don't recall top loading in any of these prior ideas. 

Docks are usually top loading though...or at least I cant think of many that arent

Well with the nature of where the ports are located and the fact some will still want to use the LCD, keyboard at times when docked.. chances are good it's not going to be a top loader. 

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Suggest hiring the guy from NASA who designed the docking system for the Space Station to design the docking system for the Pyra.