Psx Emulator For The Wiz?


Eclipse

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So the Wiz will feature with an higher clock than gp2x one, more powerful hardware, more memory and 3d hardware support....

but who's going to do a psx emulator? will Zodttd gently port his one or release the source to someone?
I'd love for a so small pocket psx. It will be like the smallest psx-capable device ever!
 

IcoNyx

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Eclipse said:
So the Wiz will feature with an higher clock than gp2x one, more powerful hardware, more memory and 3d hardware support....

but who's going to do a psx emulator? will Zodttd gently port his one or release the source to someone?
I'd love for a so small pocket psx. It will be like the smallest psx-capable device ever!
The question you need to ask is this, is the Wiz CAPABLE of emulating the Playstation? The answer is "possibly"...

While the Wiz specs indicate that it should be able to handle the base Playstation hardware you will note that there are two MAJOR problems with this idea. First, the screen is only capable of 320x240 while the PSx runs at 640x480. Now I know you are thinking, "But But, you could just scale the image down, right?" and Yes. you can... but before you start breaking out the dev kits, you should try it first. I recommend you go out and purchase a 2.4" TV (you can usually pick one up at radio shack for under a C note), drag out your Playstation (or any other console you may be tempted to ask for an emulator of), hook it up to that tiny tv and have a play session. If you don't understand by this point why this is a bad idea, you have freakishly good eyesight, and deserve to have a PSx emulator on your Wiz!

Now this covers the screen size issues... next off lets look at one slightly more minor issue. controls... you see the Wiz will be equipped with exactly 8 buttons and 1 D-pad... this is precisly 2 less buttons less and 2 analogue sticks less than most PSx controllers... now I know that most PSX games can be played without the analogue, but nearly all use all four shoulder buttons and... well, the Wiz is lacking. Now it IS possible to map button combinations (like select+L or select+R for the second pair of shoulder buttons) but in doing this you add a complexity to the game that may break you of your love of said game. in addition to that you would LOSE functionality of the very button you have to use to key the alternate functions of the shoulder buttons (you cant hit select if it's assigned for the ald shoulder buttons, which is a problem for games like Metal Gear Solid)

So In conclusion, YES it is "possible" to make a PSx emulator for the Wiz... but such an endeavor would certainly be badly suited for the Wiz. I, however; recommend you look into the Pandora instead. the core of the Pandora seems better suited for emulation of gen two consoles anyway, while the Wiz seems better suited for gen one consoles.

I hope this helps.
 
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sam fisher

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The size of a screen has nothing to do with its clarity, as you imply. This depends entirly on the pixel density and the human eyes visual resolution ability.

The definition of resolution is "The ability to distinguish between two objects". So, as the Wiz pixels are really small and close together it should be more likely to overcome the human eye's resolution hence look perfect (as the real world essentially is) and better.
 
Q

quasist

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IcoNyx said:
the screen is only capable of 320x240 while the PSx runs at 640x480. Now I know you are thinking, "But But, you could just scale the image down, right?" and Yes. you can... but before you start breaking out the dev kits, you should try it first. I recommend you go out and purchase a 2.4" TV ...........
Small TV screen and Wiz screen are different stuff. Also in is like to resize NTSC(or Pal) sygnal to 320x240 when connecting real psx so it is a problem.

Most Emulators as I believe runs very well in 320x240 (PSX GPU's Resolutions from 256×224 to 640×480)

Vol- and Vol+ buttons on bottom is also mappable. So full 10button standart gamepad "in a palm of your hand". Not to forget touchscreen :) at least for one analog stick :)

Only few games require dual analogs (most of games just support them)

So your fears = shit, as well as your recomendations.
 
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gruso

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IcoNyx said:
the screen is only capable of 320x240 while the PSx runs at 640x480. Now I know you are thinking, "But But, you could just scale the image down, right?" and Yes. you can... but before you start breaking out the dev kits, you should try it first. I recommend you go out and purchase a 2.4" TV (you can usually pick one up at radio shack for under a C note), drag out your Playstation (or any other console you may be tempted to ask for an emulator of), hook it up to that tiny tv and have a play session. If you don't understand by this point why this is a bad idea, you have freakishly good eyesight, and deserve to have a PSx emulator on your Wiz!
You start off talking about resolution problems, but your final point seems to be small screen size. Two very different things!

For the record, the resolution of Playstation games varies from 256×224 to 640×480 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation). How this translates to the resolution of the Wiz is in the coding, and emulators are no stranger to scaling. It's a non-issue.

The screen size issue comes down to opinion. If your eyes suck, hard luck. Perhaps text designed for a TV screen will be unreadable, but most people playing these games will know them so well they won't care.
 
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IcoNyx

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Peter R said:
The size of a screen has nothing to do with its clarity, as you imply. This depends entirly on the pixel density and the human eyes visual resolution ability.

The definition of resolution is "The ability to distinguish between two objects". So, as the Wiz pixels are really small and close together it should be more likely to overcome the human eye's resolution hence look perfect (as the real world essentially is) and better.
Ok, I can see your point of view... there is a range of comfortable resolutions for a range of distances. i am aware of the visual acuity scale and did some computational reasoning... as long as the pixels on the Wiz are no smaller than .0876mm (I don't think humanity has the technology to make them that small yet though...) then the device will be very comfortable viewing from seven inches all the way out to twenty four, while you will lose some quality at around the eighteen inch mark.
But this really wasn't my point... At first I thought that the scaling of 640x480 (which is what would happen on a smaller television LCD) would make it look ugly... I have since taken a screen-shot of a PSx game and scaled it manually to 320x240 (by removing alternating lines vertically and horizontally AND also by simple scale in gimp) It didn't look bad ether way, really. so I will concede this.

quasist said:
IcoNyx said:
the screen is only capable of 320x240 while the PSx runs at 640x480. Now I know you are thinking, "But But, you could just scale the image down, right?" and Yes. you can... but before you start breaking out the dev kits, you should try it first. I recommend you go out and purchase a 2.4" TV ...........
Small TV screen and Wiz screen are different stuff. Also in is like to resize NTSC(or Pal) sygnal to 320x240 when connecting real psx so it is a problem.

Most Emulators as I believe runs very well in 320x240 (PSX GPU's Resolutions from 256×224 to 640×480)

Vol- and Vol+ buttons on bottom is also mappable. So full 10button standart gamepad "in a palm of your hand". Not to forget touchscreen :) at least for one analog stick :)

Only few games require dual analogs (most of games just support them)

So your fears = shit, as well as your recomendations.

Good LORD!!! where did you learn to type?!?

Ok, let's take this in pieces...
quasist said:
Small TV screen and Wiz screen are different stuff.
Dang, I just cant get over your horrible typing style... but I believe you are saying that the size of the screen is irrelevant when it comes to view-ability because the Wiz definition is superior... right?

well, I can agree with that. however I also remember trying to play emulated Nintendo games on my Gameboy Micro... have you ever tried that? well... it "worked" but the scaling left the image somewhat lacking, it bothered me something fierce. However I also understand human visual acuity, I know that the Wiz screen will have a comfortable viewing range of eight to twenty inches. and within this range many people (of whom you are obviously listed) will find PSx game play to be quite enjoyable, in fact to you, the screen may indeed be perfect! I never claimed otherwise.

quasist said:
Also in is like to resize NTSC(or Pal) sygnal to 320x240 when connecting real psx so it is a problem."...
WHAT?!? are you even speaking English?!?

I have no response, this "sentence" makes no sense. you fail.

Moving on...
quasist said:
Most Emulators as I believe runs very well in 320x240 (PSX GPU's Resolutions from 256×224 to 640×480)
Well, I would agree... if you were correct... you see most PSx games do NOT play at the lowered resolution. You see televisions (BOTH ntsc and pal) resolve at 640x480, this was not a limit, in fact it was awesome during the reign of the CRTs. and suffice it to say, most game makers shot for this number. True, some (square was notorious for this) would set the game for 640x480 during less gpu intensive play and then to lower resolutions during FMVs or cut scenes. I had a classmate who argued that the black bands created by doing this (the framing of cut-scenes) was what spurred the whole full screen to wide screen revolution (though I am fully aware that this is not the case.) so no. in simple terms, you are wrong. very few games for the PSx run at less than 320x240. however; again, it is possible to simply scale the image and for the most part you won't lose visual quality.

You obviously missed that in my first post.

quasist said:
Vol- and Vol+ buttons on bottom is also mappable. So full 10button standart gamepad "in a palm of your hand". Not to forget touchscreen :) at least for one analog stick :)
Ok, just kill yourself now. you don't deserve to live.

First off, we have all played PocketSNES for the gp2x... having to hit both the vol+ and vol- to open the menu?!? Epic Fail. let me be perfectly clear on this:

VOLUME BUTTONS ARE VOLUME BUTTONS. TO DENY THEM THEIR BASE FUNCTION OF CONTROLLING VOLUME IS RETARDED. PLEASE REPORT TO YOUR LOCAL SUICIDE BOOTH FOR IMMEDIATE CLEANSING.

Next, using the screen as an analogue stick... It's thinking like that that spurred Nintendo to start using the touch-screen as an analogue stick (have you played Metroid on the DS? If you have, and liked it, you don't deserve to play anything but a DS for the rest of your life) but then I also must point out that the Playstation controllers actually had 12 buttons. I forgot about the "stick-clickers". so your use of volume was pointless.

quasist said:
Only few games require dual analogs (most of games just support them)
It's called reading, top to bottom, left to right. Letters form words, words make sentences. take Tylenol for headaches. Midol for cramps.

For your sake I'll repeat myself: "...I know that most PSX games can be played without the analogue..."

quasist said:
So your fears = shit, as well as your recomendations.
Ok, listen up peasant. I already stated in my FIRST post, I realize some people would enjoy a PSx emulator on the Wiz, Hell even I would give it a shot. but I also firmly believe that there are better devices for it! I pointed out the Pandora, which appears to have been specifically built with the Playstation in mind!!!

Now if you are lashing out at me because you are too poor to get both and you cant decide between the Wiz and Pandora then get a better job, and if you cant, then stay in--or go back to school and get a degree so you can at the very least afford a decent spell checker.
 
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gruso

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You know, not everyone on this board speaks English as a first language. You've been a member for 18 months, you should realise that. You've really lost the debate when you resort to grammar attacks.
 

IcoNyx

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Gruso said:
You know, not everyone on this board speaks English as a first language. You've been a member for 18 months, you should realise that. You've really lost the debate when you resort to grammar attacks.
Ok, I would agree... you respond very eloquently now, so I have to take back most of the venom I used previously. It appears you can speak English very well. so I have to ask, why was your first post so crude, both in language and demeanor? Tired? little brother got to the keyboard? what?

Look, I don't disagree that PSx emulation is possible on the Wiz, I don't even claim that it will be unplayable, I DO however believe that some aspects of a PSx emulator will be somewhat cumbersome. This is my opinion only. And that is the last thing I will EVER say about it.
 
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sam fisher

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IcoNyx said:
Gruso said:
You know, not everyone on this board speaks English as a first language. You've been a member for 18 months, you should realise that. You've really lost the debate when you resort to grammar attacks.
Ok, I would agree... you respond very eloquently now, so I have to take back most of the venom I used previously. It appears you can speak English very well. so I have to ask, why was your first post so crude, both in language and demeanor? Tired? little brother got to the keyboard? what?

Look, I don't disagree that PSx emulation is possible on the Wiz, I don't even claim that it will be unplayable, I DO however believe that some aspects of a PSx emulator will be somewhat cumbersome. This is my opinion only. And that is the last thing I will EVER say about it.

Gruso is not Quasist. Now Gruso is right here. You are being rude. He was also elitist about join dates but that was negated by your elitism over grammar of non-english speakers. Please play nice.
 
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IcoNyx

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Argueing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics... <_<

I'm out.
 

grahf

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Good riddance.

Anyhow,
Judging by GP2x/Wiz software comparison that was done earlier, i'm pretty optimistic about PSX on the Wiz. It was *almost* playable before, for some games. Not all, but a pretty decent amount of games worth playing. With the speed increase and option of offloading rendering to the 3d hardware, I'd say it's certainly within reach.
Here's hoping Zodttd takes an interest, or at the least gives his blessing to someone else who wants to take it up.
 
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Gruso said:
You know, not everyone on this board speaks English as a first language. You've been a member for 18 months, you should realise that. You've really lost the debate when you resort to grammar attacks.
Come on, we all know quasist has the linguistic skills of a toddler who's taken a bludgeon to the head no matter what his native language is. :lol:

Either way, I hope that PSX will be done on the Wiz. I've said it in other threads, so I might as well say it here: GPH should've put in an analog nub for the sake of utilizing the 3D hardware to its fullest potential, and PSX emulation counts in that. But I guess that's all just wishful thinking now. I know people who bought the Wiz banking solely on the fact that it'd play PSX games, so to have it not would be a big let-down.
 
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rokdcasbah

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IcoNyx said:
First off, we have all played PocketSNES for the gp2x... having to hit both the vol+ and vol- to open the menu?!? Epic Fail. let me be perfectly clear on this:

VOLUME BUTTONS ARE VOLUME BUTTONS...IMMEDIATE CLEANSING.
I speak for the other 50,000-ish GP2X users when I say pushing both vol buttons to open the menu in DPSNES is pretty damn easy. Well, for the rest of us. Can't speak for you.

Lay the hell off quasist, it's been said already but English is not his first language, and he still writes better than some of the native English speakers here. Someone says there are other ways to map the buttons: do you

a. say, "wow I hadn't thought of that"
b. respectfully disagree and recognize that at the end of the day we're still only talking about video games
c. repeatedly tell someone to commit suicide

I know a week or two is not enough time for someone to get a life but I wouldn't be crying if you got a holiday for that post. Grow up.

--

On-topic: I agree that an analog nub would have been nice on the Wiz. Then again, there is something to be said for its simplicity. I'm not sure if I'm going to buy a Wiz but I think the overall package is great, even if there are things it lacks.
 
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WarmFluffyUK

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rokdcasbah said:
On-topic: I agree that an analog nub would have been nice on the Wiz. Then again, there is something to be said for its simplicity. I'm not sure if I'm going to buy a Wiz but I think the overall package is great, even if there are things it lacks.
I agree but don't forget that the PS1 originally didn't have analog nubs, and all games should be at least playable using the D-Pad :)
 
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Q

quasist

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IcoNyx said:
It's thinking like that that spurred Nintendo to start using the touch-screen as an analogue stick (have you played Metroid on the DS? If you have, and liked it, you don't deserve to play anything but a DS for the rest of your life)
I liked and completed Metroid Prime Hunters, Call Of Duty 4, GoldenEye: Rogue Agent on NDS. Sometimes play Dementium: The Ward (damn that wierd monster respawn system). And waiting for Moon and C.O.R.E(two new upcomming FPS'es on DS).

Touch Screen is not the just analog stick. How much you can drag&drop with analog stick+it's click?

Only game I play much that fully uses 12button gamepad and two analog sticks is Lineage 2 on PC (with sweet force feedback) :D
 
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CCmachined

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imagine PSX emulation as it is on the gp2x, looking a bit better but running a considerable amount faster on a 2.8" screen. wouldn't be too bad, to be honest. although many games would be hindered by the lack of controls... meh.

a playable N64 emulator is very unlikely i'm sure most people will agree.
 

Eclipse

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IcoNyx said:
The question you need to ask is this, is the Wiz CAPABLE of emulating the Playstation? The answer is "possibly"...

[blah blah]

I hope this helps.




the gp2x has a psx emulator and it looks great, it's only obviously too slow because it's based on a software renderer and the gp2x clock is around 200-270mhz.

So rendering in 320x240 it's not only not a problem but can be a sort of advantage because minor resolution = less rendering time :)

For the analogs, everybody knows that only ape escape require analog controls, for the buttons i think it's not a great problem too, even without talking about the wiz touchscreen, also because the gp2x f200 has the same buttons the wiz has and all the game i tried were playable if not for emulation glitches\speed issues.

IcoNyx said:
having to hit both the vol+ and vol- to open the menu?!? Epic Fail.
Epic Win: easy to use, usable with a single thumb as a normal button.. and all the buttons should always be mappable on an opensource console, let the commercial crap to nintendo and sony, two buttons are two fucking buttons.. it it's not a wheel directly connected with the speackers they are two buttons as the other ones. You don't need to change volume every single moment while playing so volume changing can be moved inside the emulator menu, maybe even with a touchscreen controlled slidebar if the coder wants to do something fancy

now please, let's back IT or go trolling outside my thread... so: is anybody thinking about doing or porting a psx emulator?
 
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coldfish

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I dont think PSX on a 320x240 screen will be a big issue.

The PSone add-on 5" LCD screens had a native res of 320x240 and they were great.

As for screen size; My Tytn2 has a 2.8" LCD and, side by side with my GP2X (both QVGA) looks just as good if not better due to tighter dot pitch.

I think these people with misgivings about the Wiz's screen are pissing in the wind. I suggest they actually use a device with a similar screen before spewing opinion as fact. I hope a lot of the nay-sayers/whiners <em>dont</em> buy Wiz. But they'll probably keep on complaining about it even if they never own one?
 

Eclipse

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coldfis said:
totally agree.

now i'll tap all my manas trying to evocate Zodttd from the underworld hoping in a reply here... or i'll simply drop him a PM
 
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Eclipse said:
IcoNyx said:
The question you need to ask is this, is the Wiz CAPABLE of emulating the Playstation? The answer is "possibly"...

[blah blah]

I hope this helps.




the gp2x has a psx emulator and it looks great, it's only obviously too slow because it's based on a software renderer and the gp2x clock is around 200-270mhz.

So rendering in 320x240 it's not only not a problem but can be a sort of advantage because minor resolution = less rendering time :)

For the analogs, everybody knows that only ape escape require analog controls, for the buttons i think it's not a great problem too, even without talking about the wiz touchscreen, also because the gp2x f200 has the same buttons the wiz has and all the game i tried were playable if not for emulation glitches\speed issues.No, analog controls aren't required for most PSX games, but that doesn't mean they aren't there for a reason. Just because something isn't necessary doesn't mean that it shouldn't be included.

And I agree with all the points on the small screen. The only game I can see it being problematic on would be if anyone ever ported any 3D FPS games like Quake 2 or 3, but we'll see.
 
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