Pre-ordering concerns

[PoisonedV]

ok guys, the true story is, the pandora was just a intricate scheme devised by criminal masterminds. the true conspiracy of our generation. look around- the evidence is EVERYWHERE!

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

ok guys, the true story is, the pandora was just a intricate scheme devised by criminal masterminds. the true conspiracy of our generation. look around- the evidence is EVERYWHERE!

Exactly! It must've been that evil George Bush, or maybe the Jews. Whichever is more politically expedient. :lol:

 

[PoisonedV]

ok guys, the true story is, the pandora was just a intricate scheme devised by criminal masterminds. the true conspiracy of our generation. look around- the evidence is EVERYWHERE!

Exactly! It must've been that evil George Bush, or maybe the Jews. Whichever is more politically expedient. :lol:

NWO!!!! CONSPIRACY!!!!! G/32 TRUTH!!!!!!

 

[Chip]

It's not crap, per se. Engineering (software, electrical, etc) projects are notorious for deadlines slipping because it's very difficult to understand the milestones in advance unless you have prior experience. This is why games like Spore are delayed by a year while NHL 09 and Madden 09 come out like clockwork.
...
"hearing about" is exactly the issue. I've got 10 years of experience with software engineering projects. My spidey sense says these dates are likely going to slip because of the lack of information coming from the project team. If those dates were on the openpandora website, I'd feel a bit more certain about them.

You have a remarkably accurate view of the situation. Craig came out and committed to a pre-order and ship date, but there is still a lot that could push back one or both on the hardware and software fronts.

A lot of people here do not see many updates and assume either that there is nothing being done, or that almost everything is already done and the devs are keeping things secret for some reason. The truth is somewhere between those two extremes. Progress is being made, but it's not the sort of big flashy progress that makes for impressive Youtube videos. At every major milestone so far, the devs have provided updates, pictures and videos. This is how things will continue until we have a finished Pandora. Nothing worth reporting about is being kept secret, but devs aren't just sitting on their hands either. Well, some are due to so few dev boards being available, but that's something that they're working on as well.

At the end of the day, Trevor is exactly right. Electronic engineering is complicated. Engineering on such a small scale with mostly volunteer labor on a completely new platform is far more complicated still. The Beagleboard is a TI sponsored project which had a significant head start on OMAP3530 development, and even they don't have everything sorted out yet.

Patience is a virtue. It is also a requirement for a project such as this. Those that can't handle the waiting and uncertainty might be better served by another device.

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

Again, Chip, no one is disagreeing with what he's said. It's the fact that major product releases either stick to a release date or don't have one at all. People do not appreciate getting jerked around with this kind of stuff. We all know it's unintentional, but it is a side-effect of constantly trying to peg a release date and then pulling the rug out to relocate it yet again. After people fall on their ass so many times, they'll probably stop standing on the rug, which is why there are a good number of people who are skeptical about the 30th.

 

[TrevorBradley]

I think a compromise could be made here.

I have no doubt that the Pandora crew are going to be sweating away to make those release dates, or to get very close to those release dates. If things look like they're going to be delayed only a week or two, no sweat, there will be some angst, keep doing what you're doing, and all will be awesome.

If for some dark and horrible reason things get delayed and look like they're going to take a while to fix (where a while is defined as "we can't give you an exact date", something like a component failure in the production model, or multiple delays that are going to make a shipment before Christmas dicey at best) then it might be reasonable to switch over to a public milestone system. List off all the steps that need to be completed, what pre-requisites there are, and what percent each step is complete. Update it once a week at least. You can guestimate another release date, but we can see if things are going well, or slipping. I'm presuming such a document detailing the status of the project exists already (if not, you're in trouble), but I'm suggesting making that data public.

If this product were competing against another closed source system, this might be madness, but the Pandora is a different beast all together. I'm not suggesting "open source hardware development" (you get enough commentary from the peanut gallery here anyways), but a bit more transparency as to what's going on might give us some more confidence and patience, and would certainly shore up my belief that this is the right product to get.

This might be a nifty idea *now*, but considering how close you are to release date I'm not going to push it.

 

[jaycee900]

Again, Chip, no one is disagreeing with what he's said. It's the fact that major product releases either stick to a release date or don't have one at all. People do not appreciate getting jerked around with this kind of stuff. We all know it's unintentional, but it is a side-effect of constantly trying to peg a release date and then pulling the rug out to relocate it yet again. After people fall on their ass so many times, they'll probably stop standing on the rug, which is why there are a good number of people who are skeptical about the 30th.

+1
Agreed, if there is ANY chance of a delay I and I'm sure most others would like to know BEFORE we pre-order and hand money over, Craig & Co said he wouldn't open pre-orders until he knew 100% that the release date would be set, now currently we are 2 weeks away from pre-orders and the release date is a vague 'mid november' which hasn't even been mentioned on the official website, i don't see how they can take pre-orders without at least giving a release date.
I hope the situation gets rectified in the next week or so, i.e either the release date is fixed or it gets delayed...needs sorting out before pre-orders begin.

 

[Squidge]

If you say that there must be a date and that they must be out the door at that point, things could start getting rushed if there are little delays, things like not checked properly, etc.

Instead, if you say "Pre-order end Sept, Deliver November" it gives a bit of time should suppliers fail, things get stuck in customs etc. I'm sure Craig will keep everyone updated on the progress once pre-orders have begun.

So, yes, there is a chance of delay, but we don't know if that delay will happen or not, and have no control over it.

 

[chris_merris]

Again, Chip, no one is disagreeing with what he's said. It's the fact that major product releases either stick to a release date or don't have one at all. People do not appreciate getting jerked around with this kind of stuff. We all know it's unintentional, but it is a side-effect of constantly trying to peg a release date and then pulling the rug out to relocate it yet again. After people fall on their ass so many times, they'll probably stop standing on the rug, which is why there are a good number of people who are skeptical about the 30th.

I've kept up on this pretty regularly, and I don't see what you're saying with getting the rug pulled out over and over. As far as release/preorder dates go, I don't remember them ever setting one like this and then going back on it. Before, it has always been time tentative time periods (i.e. "around the middle to end of [month]"), but never an actual day. If this isn't the case, could you show me the post(s)? Even if they did pull the rug out from under the Sep 30 preorder, I wouldn't feel like I've been jerked around repeatedly.

The Sep 30th preorder seems to be the most solid date they've set - but it's still somewhat tentative. They haven't completely committed to it yet. I don't think we should treat it as if they had, and lose our faith in them if they're not able to meet it. I trust that they're doing everything they can, and if they're overly optimistic with dates, I can't fault them for it. I don't think you just "stick" with something if that means cutting corners and delivering a crappy product in the long run.

I'm sure they want to get this thing out as fast as they can, but I'm glad they're not sacrificing quality to do it.

 

[---_Won_---]

I can't find the thread or quote, but MWeston said it was up-to the forum members to decide whether there is an early pre-order, what happend to that idea huh? I have the cash burning a hole in my pocket, I need to hand it over soon!

 

[TaG]

The only thing that seems certain is that these 'discussions' will continue until the email goes out.

So I'll keep my eye open for videos, keep checking the emails, have the funds set aside and wait until its ready. Not that I like waiting, but demanding dates won't get it here quicker. From what I recall it was demands for dates and videos that led to a date being given, now people aren't happy with the date.

 

[jaycee900]

If you say that there must be a date and that they must be out the door at that point, things could start getting rushed if there are little delays, things like not checked properly, etc.

Instead, if you say "Pre-order end Sept, Deliver November" it gives a bit of time should suppliers fail, things get stuck in customs etc. I'm sure Craig will keep everyone updated on the progress once pre-orders have begun.

So, yes, there is a chance of delay, but we don't know if that delay will happen or not, and have no control over it.

Exactly, if you don't know if a delay may happen imo no pre-orders should take place, it would be different if a pre-order with no money or 5-10% deposit, but to hand over £200 without a firm date is asking for trouble, Craig said it himself, so I'm hoping he has it under control and will let us know either way, because if there is a delay AFTER pre-orders begin from the mid-November date and THEY know full well its gonna be delayed there will be trouble...not a threat or from me, but just fact that it will cause more trouble than its worth not telling us.

 

[TaG]

If you say that there must be a date and that they must be out the door at that point, things could start getting rushed if there are little delays, things like not checked properly, etc.

Instead, if you say "Pre-order end Sept, Deliver November" it gives a bit of time should suppliers fail, things get stuck in customs etc. I'm sure Craig will keep everyone updated on the progress once pre-orders have begun.

So, yes, there is a chance of delay, but we don't know if that delay will happen or not, and have no control over it.

Exactly, if you don't know if a delay may happen imo no pre-orders should take place, it would be different if a pre-order with no money or 5-10% deposit, but to hand over £200 without a firm date is asking for trouble, Craig said it himself, so I'm hoping he has it under control and will let us know either way, because if there is a delay AFTER pre-orders begin from the mid-November date and THEY know full well its gonna be delayed there will be trouble...not a threat or from me, but just fact that it will cause more trouble than its worth not telling us.

That's probably what they are doing and why we have heard little - they are probably making sure everything is 100% before saying anything, then when they are pretty certain they will be taking and releasing videos, testing the emails and getting it all sorted. Craig keeps making comments about getting things sorted before pre-orders. They don't need any unnecessary hassle.

 

[Cervante]

Just be patient man it due time it will be out , in the mean time read about the wiz or something.

 

[moxie]

I have the cash burning a hole in my pocket, I need to hand it over soon!

If that is a big problem for you, then I have an easy solution - Give them to me. You get rid of that burning sensation, and I get money for a Pandora. Win-win.

 

[Squidge]

Exactly, if you don't know if a delay may happen imo no pre-orders should take place, it would be different if a pre-order with no money or 5-10% deposit, but to hand over £200 without a firm date is asking for trouble,

Lets see, they give a firm date of 15th November (f.ex), they have a 2 week delay, and eveyone is moaning and complaining during that time.

Or, they could give a firm date of (f.ex) 30th November, and if there are no delays everyone gets it sooner than that and are very happy as a result If it was delayed by 2 weeks, everyone still gets it on time, and so are still happy.

 

[.Gogeta§§J4BR.]

the truth is: the hype started too early.
people are expected to be understanding about the delay, but that's hard when you have been expecting since day 0

 

[fusion_power]

the truth is: the hype started too early.
people are expected to be understanding about the delay, but that's hard when you have been expecting since day 0

Well, of course the waiting for the Pandora release would be shorter, if the Devs announced the project 6 months later...but then the input from the comunity came to late, many interesting suggestions came from the Forums and I think the long dev-time was good because of this. AFAIK even the OMAP Chipset was mentioned by someone from our Forum, the Devs wanted to use a weaker chipset first for the Pandora.

All in all it was the right decission of the Pandora team to announce the project early enough so the Comunity was able to post opinions, made polls and suggestions.
And I'm sure there are enough people outside the community where the Pandora is a new, unknown and surprising fresh thing that suddenly pops up out of nothing.

 

[jaycee900]

Exactly, if you don't know if a delay may happen imo no pre-orders should take place, it would be different if a pre-order with no money or 5-10% deposit, but to hand over £200 without a firm date is asking for trouble,

Lets see, they give a firm date of 15th November (f.ex), they have a 2 week delay, and eveyone is moaning and complaining during that time.

Or, they could give a firm date of (f.ex) 30th November, and if there are no delays everyone gets it sooner than that and are very happy as a result If it was delayed by 2 weeks, everyone still gets it on time, and so are still happy.

Then they shouldn't give a firm date until everything is completed...simple as that, no pre-orders taken until they know 100% it will hit that date, so if its only 2 weeks before launch then so be it...
Or sod pre-ordering to save all the hassle and moaning, just first come first served when they get them in stock....though that won't happen if they are using the pre-order money to build the first batch....not sure if thats legal or not but anyway!

 

[Squidge]

It's certainly legal. They are making it clear that if you pay now, you'll get the product within the next X amount of weeks.

It also allows them to gauge how many people are serious about buying the machine, and helps with the first production order.

The fact is, they can't guarantee a date until they have the actual devices in there hands, and thanks to our mediocre postal service, even then it could be delayed between them posting it and you receiving it.

All they could possibly say is along the lines of what I have already said. Pick a date, add a few weeks to it, and then say "Order now, and you *should* get it on or before X".

I'm sure regardless of whether they give a date or not, there will still be a large amount of people pre-ordering when it becomes available.