GP2X Possible N64 Emulator Port

[God Ginrai]

I found an emulator called Mupen64: http://mupen64.emulation64.com/

It's supposedly coded in SDL, is open source, and doesn't rely on one specific type of graphics enhancer like OpenGL or DirectX. It uses graphics plugins to work with those. So I was wondering, maybe this might be possible to port, and then we could write a graphics plugin for TinyGL or something like that that we are currently porting to the GP2X.

I'd really like to know what you guys think, because I'd really like to see N64 emulation take off, and I might even myself try to port this if you guys think its possible. (but don't have too much faith in me, I don't have too much coding experience)

 

[xafier]

the N64 is a bit of a beasty machine, you can go ahead and try, but I really don't think playable N64 is going to happen... there would be a lot of work involved in writing a graphics plugin you know?

 

[God Ginrai]

yes, I know that, and that's why I say you shouldn't put all of your faith in me if you think it's possible to port this. But this emulator seems more possible than the other open source ones, and so I thought I might try my hand at it if you guys thought it was possible.

 

[barnesy]

It's still going to be very demanding on the hardware even though it does sound better suited than the others. It's not something to take on as a first project either - if you want to look at it, go for it, but it'd be a good idea to go for an earlier point on the learning curve, like writing an emulator for a lesser system. Even that is quite high up the difficulty scale!

 

[xafier]

Only way to see whether it truly is possible is to try it and see but I personally think we dont have enough power to make it worthwhile, but it would entirely depend on how you port it, if you can manage to offset onto the 2nd CPU a lot of work then maybe you could get something thats ok with some games at 266mhz on both cores... I really don't know, I just know its got some fancy 64bit hardware in there and more power than the Playstation has

 

[reaper79]

I don't think it's possible. It can be a chore for a modern PC with nice graphics card to run it. On the PC, minimum, your talking 500mhz, w/ dedicated graphics and sound (x86 to arm9 is by no means an accurate comparison of course). If the full 400mhz of the GP2X could be utilized, it will probably still be half of what is needed.

I'd love to see it happen though. Nothing could be better than N64 emulator IMO. Maybe in a couple year we may see a proof of concept or something for it, but the GP2X has a long way to go to even get to a mature stage, such as HH and the second ARM, and a GL lib. Good Luck if you try it, I would gladly BUY a working N64 emulator.

Cheers!

 

[mrchris]

I found an emulator called Mupen64: http://mupen64.emulation64.com/

It's supposedly coded in SDL, is open source, and doesn't rely on one specific type of graphics enhancer like OpenGL or DirectX. It uses graphics plugins to work with those. So I was wondering, maybe this might be possible to port, and then we could write a graphics plugin for TinyGL or something like that that we are currently porting to the GP2X.

I'd really like to know what you guys think, because I'd really like to see N64 emulation take off, and I might even myself try to port this if you guys think its possible. (but don't have too much faith in me, I don't have too much coding experience)

​

If I am not mistaken, the N64 has a 90mhz Silicone Graphics cpu. It's got dedicated 3d hardware for graphics, etc. It's really unlikely. The PSX has only a 33mhz processor, so it's more likely.

 

[God Ginrai]

It's still going to be very demanding on the hardware even though it does sound better suited than the others. It's not something to take on as a first project either - if you want to look at it, go for it, but it'd be a good idea to go for an earlier point on the learning curve, like writing an emulator for a lesser system. Even that is quite high up the difficulty scale!

​

Maybe you're right, but I hope SOMEONE will atleast take up the reigns. :/

I don't think it's possible. It can be a chore for a modern PC with nice graphics card to run it. On the PC, minimum, your talking 500mhz, w/ dedicated graphics and sound (x86 to arm9 is by no means an accurate comparison of course). If the full 400mhz of the GP2X could be utilized, it will probably still be half of what is needed.

I'd love to see it happen though. Nothing could be better than N64 emulator IMO. Maybe in a couple year we may see a proof of concept or something for it, but the GP2X has a long way to go to even get to a mature stage, such as HH and the second ARM, and a GL lib. Good Luck if you try it, I would gladly BUY a working N64 emulator.

Cheers!

​

... you don't need 500 MHz, it's already been pointed out that N64 has been know to run great on a less than 200 MHz Pentium (170 or something wasn't it?) Of course the arms aren't as powerful, but I'm thinking that 400 MHz of arm SHOULD be able to get you enough processing power. It'll just be hard for someone to code it. ;P

But considering how many people think its impossible, and how many of those who think it IS possible think it would be extremely hard... whoever DOES get an N64 emu running on the GP2X will be recognized as a code God. ;P

Maybe that will inspire someone to get working on it. XD

 

[narmak]

If i remember correctly, someone coded a 64 emulator for gp32 just to see if it could be done. Apparently it worked, but nothing even close to playable, so it wasn't released. And i would look around for an emu that isn't based around sdl if possible.

 

[Ravnos]

... you don't need 500 MHz, it's already been pointed out that N64 has been know to run great on a less than 200 MHz Pentium (170 or something wasn't it?) Of course the arms aren't as powerful, but I'm thinking that 400 MHz of arm SHOULD be able to get you enough processing power. It'll just be hard for someone to code it. ;P

​

Those N64 emulators running on a 200MHz Pentium had a disgusting amount of x86 assembly in them. I wouldn't expect anyone to want to port that. I have my doubts that Mupen64 would produce anything even remotely playable if ported to this device. Give up the ghost. Any playable N64 emulator for the GP2X would probably have to be coded from scratch in almost all ARM assembly, and you'd be hard pressed to find someone willing to do it.

 

[DaveC]

I found an emulator called Mupen64: http://mupen64.emulation64.com/

It's supposedly coded in SDL, is open source, and doesn't rely on one specific type of graphics enhancer like OpenGL or DirectX. It uses graphics plugins to work with those. So I was wondering, maybe this might be possible to port, and then we could write a graphics plugin for TinyGL or something like that that we are currently porting to the GP2X.

I'd really like to know what you guys think, because I'd really like to see N64 emulation take off, and I might even myself try to port this if you guys think its possible. (but don't have too much faith in me, I don't have too much coding experience)

​

No, it is not possible if you want it to be remotely playable :rolleyes:

I am not going to waste the time to type a whole page comparing tech specs of the two units. Go research the hardware of the N64 and the GP2X and compare yourself. Then assuming that you have the intelligence to comprehend those specs and have an understanding of what emulation is you will have your answer.

Or you can take my word for it which is no, not possible at a playable speed.

 

[daminator]

GPH could pay a dev for such an Assembler N64 Emu^^

Then gp2x would be really best handhelf in the world...

 

[DynaMight]

Processor:
* Custom 93.75 MHz MIPS R4300i series 64-bit RISC CPU

* L1 cache: 24 KB
* Bandwidth: 250 MB/s
* Operations: 93 MIPs (millions of instructions per second)
* Manufactured by NEC using 0.35 µm transistor fabrication process

RAM:
*4 MB Rambus RDRAM (upgradeable to 8 MB with Expansion Pak)

* Bandwidth: 562.5 MB/s
* Bus: Custom 9-bit Rambus at 500 MHz (max)

Graphics:
*SGI 62.5 MHz RCP (Reality Co-Processor) contains two sub-processors:

* RSP (Reality Signal Processor) controls 3D graphics and sound functions
* RDP (Reality Drawing Processor) handles all pixel drawing operations in hardware, such as:
o Z-buffering (maintains 3d spatial relationships, is Mario in front of the tree or vice-versa?)
o Anti-aliasing (smoothes jagged lines and edges)
o Texture mapping (placing images over shapes, for example mapping a face image to a sphere creates head)
+ Trilinear Filtered Mipmap Interpolation (increases texture map rendering speed)
+ Perspective correction
+ Environment mapping
* Resolution: 246x224 to 640x480 pixels flicker-free, interlaced
* Colors: 16.7 million (32,000 on screen)
* 150,000 polygon/s (all RDP features enabled)

Sound:
*16 bit ADPCM Stereo

* Channels: 100 PCM (max, 16-24 avg.)
* Sampling: 48 kHz (max, 44.1 kHz is CD quality)

More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64

I'm going to go with no (Well not at any real speed atleast) the specs alone will stop most devs from even bothering.

 

[Axeman]

Aint gonna happen unfortunately....

Ah well!

 

[God Ginrai]

I found an emulator called Mupen64: http://mupen64.emulation64.com/

It's supposedly coded in SDL, is open source, and doesn't rely on one specific type of graphics enhancer like OpenGL or DirectX. It uses graphics plugins to work with those. So I was wondering, maybe this might be possible to port, and then we could write a graphics plugin for TinyGL or something like that that we are currently porting to the GP2X.

I'd really like to know what you guys think, because I'd really like to see N64 emulation take off, and I might even myself try to port this if you guys think its possible. (but don't have too much faith in me, I don't have too much coding experience)

​

No, it is not possible if you want it to be remotely playable :rolleyes:

I am not going to waste the time to type a whole page comparing tech specs of the two units. Go research the hardware of the N64 and the GP2X and compare yourself. Then assuming that you have the intelligence to comprehend those specs and have an understanding of what emulation is you will have your answer.

Or you can take my word for it which is no, not possible at a playable speed.

​

I won't take your word, because I don't trust it. When zodttd released OpenTTD for the GP2X, you posted in the topic basically the same thing about the PSX, saying that it would be crap and you wouldn't be able to run even the simplest games at 3-4 fps if you're lucky. And now the PSX emu is up to 50 fps on some games. I wouldn't trust you at all.

As for the others, I see what you guys are saying, but like xafier said, you can't tell for sure unless you try.

 

[Jarska333]

Well, there's one running on Dreamcast. It does have a GPU, however... What kind of (other) specs does the DC have?

 

[DynaMight]

Dreamcast is:

# CPU: SH-4 RISC CPU with 128 bit graphic computational engine built-in (operating frequency: 206 MHz 360 MIPS/1.4 GFLOPS)

# Graphics Engine: PowerVR2 CLX2, capable of drawing around 7 million polygons per second (though rarely pushed this far; the models for the polygons would become a limiting factor, chipping away video memory for the textures)

# Memory: Main RAM: 16 MB (Hyundai), Video RAM: 8 MB, Sound RAM: 2 MB

# Sound Engine: Super Intelligent (Yamaha) Sound Processor with 47MHz 32-Bit ARM7 RISC CPU core built-in (64 channel PCM/ADPCM)

I loved the dreamcast, It almost started modern day console homebrew.

 

[reaper79]

I don't think it's possible.  It can be a chore for a modern PC with nice graphics card to run it.  On the PC, minimum, your talking 500mhz, w/ dedicated graphics and sound (x86 to arm9 is by no means an accurate comparison of course).  If the full 400mhz of the GP2X could be utilized, it will probably still be half of what is needed. 

I'd love to see it happen though.  Nothing could be better than N64 emulator IMO.  Maybe in a couple year we may see a proof of concept or something for it, but the GP2X has a long way to go to even get to a mature stage, such as HH and the second ARM, and a GL lib.  Good Luck if you try it, I would gladly BUY a working N64 emulator.

Cheers!

​

... you don't need 500 MHz, it's already been pointed out that N64 has been know to run great on a less than 200 MHz Pentium (170 or something wasn't it?) Of course the arms aren't as powerful, but I'm thinking that 400 MHz of arm SHOULD be able to get you enough processing power. It'll just be hard for someone to code it. ;P
Maybe that will inspire someone to get working on it. XD

​

I have played standard/portable N64 emulators on low end computers before. I'm talking Pentium III 500mhz with 4 meg AGP graphics and sound processing. Even on a system like that, the emulation was junk. I don't see N64 working for the GP2X, especially from a port. There needs to be an N64 emulator written from scratch to even have a hope, with LOTS of assembly. I'm not dogging on you or being a pessimist, I would LOVE to see this happen, maybe more than anything. What I do see, as being possible, is a single version emulator written to support and optimized to play a single rom. Mario Kart 64 and Mario 64 would be great to play. But alas...

 

[aapje89]

I don't think it's possible. It can be a chore for a modern PC with nice graphics card to run it. On the PC, minimum, your talking 500mhz, w/ dedicated graphics and sound (x86 to arm9 is by no means an accurate comparison of course). If the full 400mhz of the GP2X could be utilized, it will probably still be half of what is needed.

I'd love to see it happen though. Nothing could be better than N64 emulator IMO. Maybe in a couple year we may see a proof of concept or something for it, but the GP2X has a long way to go to even get to a mature stage, such as HH and the second ARM, and a GL lib. Good Luck if you try it, I would gladly BUY a working N64 emulator.

Cheers!

​

... you don't need 500 MHz, it's already been pointed out that N64 has been know to run great on a less than 200 MHz Pentium (170 or something wasn't it?) Of course the arms aren't as powerful, but I'm thinking that 400 MHz of arm SHOULD be able to get you enough processing power. It'll just be hard for someone to code it. ;P
Maybe that will inspire someone to get working on it. XD

​

I have played standard/portable N64 emulators on low end computers before. I'm talking Pentium III 500mhz with 4 meg AGP graphics and sound processing. Even on a system like that, the emulation was junk. I don't see N64 working for the GP2X, especially from a port. There needs to be an N64 emulator written from scratch to even have a hope, with LOTS of assembly. I'm not dogging on you or being a pessimist, I would LOVE to see this happen, maybe more than anything. What I do see, as being possible, is a single version emulator written to support and optimized to play a single rom. Mario Kart 64 and Mario 64 would be great to play. But alas...

​

Mario 64 would rock !, and maybe in a few years...

 

[God Ginrai]

I don't think it's possible. It can be a chore for a modern PC with nice graphics card to run it. On the PC, minimum, your talking 500mhz, w/ dedicated graphics and sound (x86 to arm9 is by no means an accurate comparison of course). If the full 400mhz of the GP2X could be utilized, it will probably still be half of what is needed.

I'd love to see it happen though. Nothing could be better than N64 emulator IMO. Maybe in a couple year we may see a proof of concept or something for it, but the GP2X has a long way to go to even get to a mature stage, such as HH and the second ARM, and a GL lib. Good Luck if you try it, I would gladly BUY a working N64 emulator.

Cheers!

​

... you don't need 500 MHz, it's already been pointed out that N64 has been know to run great on a less than 200 MHz Pentium (170 or something wasn't it?) Of course the arms aren't as powerful, but I'm thinking that 400 MHz of arm SHOULD be able to get you enough processing power. It'll just be hard for someone to code it. ;P
Maybe that will inspire someone to get working on it. XD

​

I have played standard/portable N64 emulators on low end computers before. I'm talking Pentium III 500mhz with 4 meg AGP graphics and sound processing. Even on a system like that, the emulation was junk. I don't see N64 working for the GP2X, especially from a port. There needs to be an N64 emulator written from scratch to even have a hope, with LOTS of assembly. I'm not dogging on you or being a pessimist, I would LOVE to see this happen, maybe more than anything. What I do see, as being possible, is a single version emulator written to support and optimized to play a single rom. Mario Kart 64 and Mario 64 would be great to play. But alas...

​

Try Corn v0.3 on that crappy computer. ;P

As for the optimized for ROM thing, I thought about mentioning that, because really, I just want OoT, Mario Kart would be EXTREMELY fun, but as long as I have OoT, I'd be happy. ;P Although I don't really know if that would be any easier than making an N64 emulator for all ROMS.