Port Request With Bounty (os Port)

[SNESFAN]

Had a thought in another section about porting iPhone OS to the panda for an *alternative* to linux here's the link
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showt...21&start=21

now I'm not a programmer, and I know the OS is closed source "ports require source code" but look at the hackntosh... it's gotta be possible since the hardware is very close. Anyway that horse has been beaten to death, but since I don't have the means to do this I'll put a bounty out there for this, $330 USD (enough to cover a new panda... nice eh?) for the first semi functional iphone os port to the panda

what this bounty entails at a minimum
-actually boot into a iphone os, not some gui shell or emulated environment, "the real deal"
-functional internal keyboard and/or touchscreen
-a means to install it and a guide on how to do it

what would be nice but not required
-new iPhone os v3.0 (releases june 17th fyi)
*the reason behind this besides the latest and greatest, I was reading that v3.0 forces every app to work in landscape and work with resolutions higher than what is actually on the iphone (neat huh?)
-Bluetooth, wireless, and analog nubs (hopefully this will be supported in the future but not required for the bounty)

things i understand will not work
-accel-o-meter or whatever it's called
-multi touch screen
-gps

if you're a dev, and you know for the most part that this is probably impossible, let me know, no trolls/flames please, thanks

EDIT: links to related items from pages within this thread

iphone os
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_OS

iphone guts
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3579&p=2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone

darwin os (all open and how the hackntosh project was created btw)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system)

team that did the darwin generic x86 port making hackntosh possible
http://code.google.com/p/xnu-dev/

 

[VRAndy]

This would be very difficult.

Some iPhones run on a similar CPU, but the hardware is very different and drivers would probably need to be created from scratch.

I don't know if the iPhone OS will even allow you to change drivers, or if they're compiled in.

Making this work would be a pretty astonishing hack.

 

[Exophase]

It's possible for something like MacOS X because that OS is designed to be fairly hardware agnostic, having drivers for a lot of different peripherals with only the CPU type being a common factor, and a rough one at that given how cross compatible x86 CPUs tend to be. It has also been designed to be flexible enough so that it can be migrated to new platforms when the need arises. Even then, compatibility for "Hackintosh" is limited.

On the other hand, iPhone's OS is designed to fit iPhone's hardware. Despite both using ARM CPUs the system on chip in iPhone is quite different from the OMAP3530. The bus and memory map are different, not to mention the kinds of SoC peripherals, the LCD type and dimensions, the touchscreen, lack of accelerometers, different built in flash, and many other components.

Running it natively is impossible. With virtualization it might be possible, but it's unknown how to use Cortex-A8 to efficiently virtualize, if TrustZone is truly capable. Less efficient emulation techniques are possible. Of course all of this would be much more work than what you're describing.

 

[SNESFAN]

@exophase
I have much respect for ya as I've followed your work for quite a while on the psp etc... so I'll take your word as gospel, and not look too forward to this ever happening, but I'll leave my offer out there on the table if by some computer voodoo this may someday be possible by accident that it's magically compatable or future apple releases (see rumored iNetbook legend) thanks agian for your insightful responce

EDIT: oh and one more thought, when you said "CPUs the system on chip in iPhone is quite different from the OMAP3530" is this taking into account the 3G S that's comming out? something about it being the OMAP 3530 or something to that extent? Since they're changeing the hardware on the new phone that maybe it might not be so locked down to one platform of hardware? Or is that still enough for it not to be possible?

 

[Pleng]

Also how would you plan on dealing with the multi-touch screen and the accelerometer?

 

[SNESFAN]

Also how would you plan on dealing with the multi-touch screen and the accelerometer?

not everything needs the multi-touch, it's just an added feature except for like the zoom in safari mobile, and accelerometer for changing to landscape, (hopefully there's like a landscape default setting that can be hacked in a registry somewhere or keymap to switch back and forth)

I'm not looking for the full iphone experience, main reason I want it is the OS seems to be smoother, flows well and just generally more refined (on the end user pov anyway) than anything else out there (haven't seen the palm pre but I heard good things) even mac's own leopard (although probally the closest), windows vista (worst thing ever but looks pretty), and linux (although awesome and open, pretty clunky and buggy) none of it comes close in end user experience as the iphone os imo

 

[VRAndy]

none of it comes close in end user experience as the iphone os imo

Unlike Windows and MacOS which each have a single interface, there is no single user interface that can claim to be the Linux user interface. The difference between different Linux GUIs can be greater than the difference between Windows as MacOS.

If you didn't like one, try another. They range from clunky and buggy to slick and flashy.

 

[SNESFAN]

@VRAndy
yea...i know they do, I guess i should have specified saying linux is like saying "all you *insert random race here* look alike", and I do like the new moblin and unbutu is quazi sexy, they're both pretty slick as far as distros go, but agian... not exactly what I'm looking for in my ideas for this handheld, looking for super minimalist, super sexy and super fast. Moblin comes close in that area but agian not everything I am looking for. I run different distros of linux on my other boxes, this is the os I invision for this platform that I'd wanna use

EDIT: oh and don't forget the comercialism and apps and stuff all of this is why i want the iphone os

 

[EmuGuy]

Hmmm...I'm not being sarcastic, but you might as well just buy an iPhone/iPod Touch for the same price as the bounty, or cheaper if you can find a used one. It sounds like you really love the Apple interface, and I couldn't agree more, I have a 2nd Gen 8GB iPod Touch. That said, I also have a GP2X, and I pre-ordered a Pandora for the D-Pad & nubs, games from my childhood, bluetooth, SD slots, and Firefox.

Not that I want to discourage the community from working for this bounty if they can. But if it's not gonna happen, may as well just pay for the user experience you want in the meantime...it's worth it.

Otherwise I'm sure there will be tons of themes/skins for apps or even the whole OS once Pandora gets out there and folks get their feet wet.

As an aside, I've now bought two remakes off the AppStore, but the controls just don't cut it (Sonic the Hedgehog & Boulder Dash). Pandora can't get here soon enough!

 

[dflemstr]

Ok, this is just...wrong
Have you thought about the fact that the iPhone OS is proprietary, IP software, so even if someone was to port it, we wouldn't be allowed to run it. Also, the iPhone OS is so device-bound that you'd need extremely thick wrappers around the Pandora core libraries to emulate the OS that it would be much too slow to run any apps whatsoever. And what would you want to do with it after it was ported? You wouldn't be able to connect to the appstore with it, and most binaries would probably be too complex to be emulated (no emulator is perfect) so we would see the same problems occurring as those we would get when porting Windows XP.

All in all, what you propose is impossible or would require a budget 100x the pot you specified.

BTW: Why would anyone want something as limited as the iPhone OS? What is unique about it?? It's not innovating in any way (well, the icon grid maybe kinda is but otherwise, not at all) and is incapable of multitasking etc. I think that you, sir have fallen for some marketing trick, and now are an iPhone fanatic unable to see good things in other environments

 

[WoD]

Heathen! The iPhone OS is the end-all of all smartphone operating systems! No other operating system includes such killer features as:

1) Being locked to a proprietary, paid for SDK and approval process unless jailbroken
2) Capable of only running a single application
3) Faking fast application launch times by displaying static images until the application has fully loaded (my contacts list sometimes loads up in german before it fully loads)


Disclaimer: I own an iPhone, and also installed OSX on my Samsung NC10. Based on both experiences I can catagorically say that, even if the iPhone OS did somehow boot on the Pandora, it would be a usability disaster.

The whole <em>point</em> of the iPhone is the slick UI combined with a capacitive touch screen. Take away the ability to prod with your finger, and you've got another clumsy hunch-and-poke crippled Windows Mobile clone. Running nay of the software would be <em>painful.</em>

Here's a better idea... give the bounty to someone willing to work on improving Android on the Pandora. At the moment you might as well be offering to give $300 to the first person who can strap on wax-wings and fly past the sun.

 

[SNESFAN]

I'm your everyday gadgeteer, i own multiple ipods/blackberries/psp's/netbooks... pretty much name it and I got one... so it's not like "why don't I just use...." cause I do... but in my mind what the ultimate combo would be is ipod+panda controls. It takes what I've always hated about he ipod (no buttons) and gave it more than you can throw a stick at. The panda is a sexy beast in the league it's in, but as much as I like Ed's work, I'm not too sure how much I like the gui's I've seen, and if it's anything like the gp2x (own a couple models of these as well) I'm not going to like it as much as I like my ipod interface

I never said I'm ruleing out what Ed is working on, cause I applaud his and eveyone else devoping arstrom for panda. I just want this an a alternative for myself, and anyone else interested.

you've used an ipod touch before, name one gui/shell anything that flows together like the ipod man. I've done my research and i've tried using winmo themes and java based emulators for it and they just never get it totally right. I like the feel of it, it's honestly not marketing because I'm educated enough to know the difference and not just jump on the band wagon. If you don't agree that the os is for you then I can respect that, hopefully you can respect my like for it.

and to answer the thing about apple's reaction on not being allowed to do it.... apple isn't comming down like an atom bomb on the hackers that did the hackntosh, just the ones that are trying to profit from it (wish I had a link to that engadet article) nothing will come down on OP as long as they don't sell it with it built in.

the reason I was asking dev's their opinion on this was to rule out the apple haters and the linux fanboys, i'm not trying to convert or bash any project or os out there, just trying to find out how possible this is and if anyone is willing to work on it, regardless of how moronic some might seem the idea to be. If it sucks... then it sucks. At least we'll all know that it'd be possible and not worth it, andi'm out some money and someone gets a panda, but if it rocks...? it will be the first of it's kind. And someone will get alot of publicity.

 

[WoD]

The flow of the iTouch/iPhone GUI is heavily dependent on its capacitive touch screen. Jabbing at it with a stylus (I hate stylii, but they're a necessary evil on the Pandora) will be more than painful.

P.S. You might want to check out: http://icontrolpad.com/

 

[dflemstr]

I must say that i disprove of the Matchbox interface for the Pandora but hey, we are able to switch it. If you want an iPhone UI, build one on Linux and be content with that, because a port just isn't going to happen. Ever.

 

[SNESFAN]

I must say that i disprove of the Matchbox interface for the Pandora but hey, we are able to switch it. If you want an iPhone UI, build one on Linux and be content with that, because a port just isn't going to happen. Ever.

ok, well, you're all probably right, and I myself was thinking about this as I drove home from work today. I don't think I'd offer a full bounty of a Pandora for a gui shell to be developed. I'd pay for one... sure.... but unless it was damn nice... and I mean DAMN nice, 300+ dollars isn't worth it.

After all apple built osx off of unix from my understanding, and iphone os is a mobile variant of osx also to my understanding... it's definitely possible, or at least more possible than what I'm proposing, native app support/itunes etc etc etc aside, at least it'd look nice, but agian I'm afraid of those half assed shells that just don't give it justice

this isn't total crap so maybe there can be something similar for the iphone os
http://sourceforge.net/projects/mac4lin

EDIT: i've seen the iControlPad, and meh.... clamshell ftw... also i've seen in Ed's videos of him using his finger on the touchscreen, so i don't think it'd be 100% skewered with a stylus

 

[gilesjuk]

It's unlikely to happen. It's illegal, it's DMCA blah blah.

Why would you even bother? just get an iPod touch. The pandora touch screen is not multitouch, how can you replicate that on a single touch screen? pretty badly I would say.

Even an iPhone 2G will run iPhone OS3 and the pandora has no phone element, so a cheap used iPhone 2G will be more functional than some iPhone knock off build running on the pandora.

 

[WizardStan]

will be more than painful.
You shouldn't have any more problem using your fingers on the Pandora than on the iPhone. I use my thumb and finger to poke at buttons on my DS's touch screen all the time. The stylus is just for more precise control, a level of resolution the iPhone can't give.

I must say that i disprove of the Matchbox interface for the Pandora but hey, we are able to switch it. If you want an iPhone UI, build one on Linux and be content with that, because a port just isn't going to happen. Ever.
I'm pretty sure Matchbox isn't going to be the default interface, or at least it wasn't originally supposed to be. Weren't they going to ship with a modified version of the GP2X interface or something like that? Which does line things up in a nice little grid, nice and intuitive like, from what I've seen. Never owned a GP2X.

 

[SNESFAN]

It's unlikely to happen. It's illegal, it's DMCA blah blah.

Why would you even bother? just get an iPod touch. The pandora touch screen is not multitouch, how can you replicate that on a single touch screen? pretty badly I would say.

Even an iPhone 2G will run iPhone OS3 and the pandora has no phone element, so a cheap used iPhone 2G will be more functional than some iPhone knock off build running on the pandora.

understandably illeagal as was the hackntosh (osx port to non-apple intel machine), the reaction by apple... very weak... even to this day that software is being spread around the net along with guides etc etc..... apple doesn't seem to care much/couldn't do anything about it untill they caught a company trying to resell systems with it installed... then next thing you know, a giant apple landed on them.. end of story

i own a ipod touch... and nobody has actually said where having multi-touch is required for anything... as far as i know only the zoom function of safari and some games *let* you use the multi touch, agian not required

not looking for the phone portion of it, the ipod touch runs the "iphone os" actual thing... not just describing it... i wouldn't call what I'm looking for a knock off build, as much as any port is a knock off build, yes functionality would be lost... but the parts I'm most interested in would stay
---------------------------------


Everyone keeps mentioning how parts of it won't work, yea i know the hardware differences between the two... i'm not retarded, can't shake the panda, gotcha

it's about the kick ass apps to run (minus the ones without said functions), slidey buttons thingies and, fading in and out of windows, scrolling menus.... you guys have used an ipod before correct? it's not just a multi touch application with a gps and accelo thingy, you know this right? It's got alot of really cool functions other than this, all built in the software and everything flows together nicely, the general mood I'm getting from everyone is that.... bah ipod is lame, i seriously hope these opinions aren't coming from people who just blindly hate because of what they've heard or it's cool to hate the big guy.

 

[wermy]

, slidey buttons thingies and, fading in and out of windows, scrolling menus.... you guys have used an ipod before correct? it's not just a multi touch application with a gps and accelo thingy, you know this right? It's got alot of really cool functions other than this, all built in the software and everything flows together nicely, the general mood I'm getting from everyone is that.... bah ipod is lame, i seriously hope these opinions aren't coming from people who just blindly hate because of what they've heard or it's cool to hate the big guy.

I love the iPhone/iPod Touch (I refuse to call it iTouch...) interface -- in fact I own one. While it would be neat to see it running on different hardware, I just don't see any reason for doing it other than the coolness of forcing it onto a device it wasn't made for. I mean, the experience of using it would NOT be the same at all, if for no other reason than the simple fact that the Pandora has a resistive touch screen, and the iPhone has a capacitive touch screen. Those slidey buttons and things that you speak of would not be as user-friendly to use at all. Plus, even the nicest iPhone apps, while cool, are nothing compared to what the Pandora is capable of. So, I don't the the point, other than to say you did it (which now that I think of it is reason enough to do lots of things...). :huh:

 

[SNESFAN]

I mean, the experience of using it would NOT be the same at all, if for no other reason than the simple fact that the Pandora has a resistive touch screen, and the iPhone has a capacitive touch screen.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28182280

I owned an instinct... resistive touch screen, that thing worked great for touch/drag, will not be an issue