Plans Cad Diagrams, Electrical Diagrams

[desijays]

hi everyone,

I love the open pandora project and i've been following it for some time now. Im really glad the project is in the finishing stages when i got to know about it ! I have a few questions though..

1) when can i buy one?
2) Will it be actively developed? I mean even after the first version is released?
3) And what linux distro does it run?
4) it says open pandora. Then does it mean, its free as in free speech not free beer? i mean are the plans, cad drawings, and all those documents available.. say if i want to modify it and do something else with it?

thats it for now i guess.. im excited aobut this machine

you dont need to answer the quesitons directly. if you can point me to any threads that answer these questions, that would be sufficient as well !

thanks all !

 

[Dunny]

Disclaimer: I'm not part of the OP team.

1. You can buy one now, but you won't get it until it's finished. There are a few left from the first batch.
2. No, not until the Pandora 2 comes out in a few years - the OP team want to wait. If there's hardware issues with the first batch, then they will be fixed, but in general, there will be no new features added.
3. Angstrom at the moment, there's no reason that's going to change.
4. It's completely open in that there's nothing to stop you from installing your own code on there, to do whatever you want with it. You can even install your own OS if you so choose. Compare and contrast with the likes of Nintendo's DS and Sony's PSP - you have to fight the manufacturers every step of the way to get unsigned code running. This will not happen with the Pandora. The iPhone has a more accessible manner of getting your code on there, but you'll get better performance on the Pandora mostly because the OS won't get in your way.

The CAD plans and circuit diagrams are not available as yet, due to the very high likelihood that some Chinese company starts putting out their own version with inferior components and shortcuts. See Chinavasion for examples of this kind of thing.

D.

 

[God Ginrai]

it says open pandora. Then does it mean, its free as in free speech not free beer? i mean are the plans, cad drawings, and all those documents available.. say if i want to modify it and do something else with it?

thats it for now i guess.. im excited aobut this machine

you dont need to answer the quesitons directly. if you can point me to any threads that answer these questions, that would be sufficient as well !

thanks all !

1) www.gbax.com is one place. I'm not sure they are taking in any more pre-orders atm, you might want to send them an e-mail asking about that.
2) Yes
3) Angstrom
4) The handheld is open source, not open hardware. This isn't like the OpenMoko. If they released the hardware designs it could have great consequences for the project.

EDIT:

2. No, not until the Pandora 2 comes out in a few years - the OP team want to wait. If there's hardware issues with the first batch, then they will be fixed, but in general, there will be no new features added.

I was under the assumption that by "actively developed" he meant that the OS would be actively developed. You know, firmware revisions and the like.

-God Ginrai

 

[WizardStan]

Addendum to question 4: floating around somewhere is a partial map of the board. In this regard, the hardware can be said to be open: it's not a complete diagram that you could use to reproduce the board, but it does list all the pins and pads that you could use to solder new (or replace existing) hardware into it. Not sure where it's gotten to. If we beseech MWeston, he might grace us with an updated copy.

 

[Loonie]

Addendum to question 3: It's equipped with Angstrom, but you'll be able to boot other distros from an SD card.

 

[desijays]

Disclaimer: I'm not part of the OP team.

1. You can buy one now, but you won't get it until it's finished. There are a few left from the first batch.

D.

Would it be possible to buy a new one say sometime in september or october this year?

Disclaimer: I'm not part of the OP team.

3. Angstrom at the moment, there's no reason that's going to change.
D.

Is this distro easy to work with like arch linux? This is because i have experience working with arch linux and it would be nice if i don't have to go through a steep learning curve for angstrom linux ) And will angstrom be actively developed? and what kind of package manager does it have? And one other thing. What is the meaning of Dual SDHC card slots? does it mean it does not have a hard drive and stuff?

Thank you.

Regards

 

[WizardStan]

It doesn't have a hard drive in the classic mechanical sense, it has a built in 512 MB NAND drive, and also two slots for SDHC cards (capable of up to 32 Gigs each).
Angstrom is pretty easy to use. The default window manager is Matchbook which is very intuitive to begin with, but I think the Pandora will come with a different window manager which will be even easier to use, based on some of the videos we've seen.
Angstrom uses opkg as a package manager. It's one of the most active emedded Linux distributions I've come across, so don't expect to lose support any time soon.
Here's a list of existing packages that should be available, although specific Pandora versions of some applications will probably be created.

 

[Pleng]

Is this distro easy to work with like arch linux?

Yea it'll be pretty simple to work with.

Simply download the app that you want from the Pandora archives. It will be a single file. Copy it onto an SD card and it will automatically be available from the built-in menu system.

 

[desijays]

Disclaimer: I'm not part of the OP team.

1. You can buy one now, but you won't get it until it's finished. There are a few left from the first batch.

And when is it slated to finish? And may i also ask what input/output facilities does it have for interfacing custom projects/circuits?

 

[RajTakhar]

around september 2009, + or - 2 months!! :lol:

 

[WizardStan]

And when is it slated to finish? And may i also ask what input/output facilities does it have for interfacing custom projects/circuits?
If I knew where the diagram I mentioned was I could tell you for certain, but from memory: the EXT port has a UART and an SPI (or I2C?) lines, with an additional UART port on the board (though I could be very wrong about that), an extra set of pads for 2 more buttons (designated L2 and R2 to compliment the L1 and R1 shoulder buttons), and an amp regulated pad that had originally been intended for a keyboard backlight. There's more, but I can't think of them right now.

 

[danielliu88888]

around september 2009, + or - 2 months!! :lol:

you fool! it's trademarked now!

 

[skeezix]

The dis is pretty ewasy, but you'll also be able to use other distros (at least Gentoo if not others are being worked on by other people for fun.)

jeff

 

[desijays]

Say there was a software that i want to install and it is not available for the angstrom distro, then would it be possible to recompile it .. say on the pandora? (a very apt name by the way for this project )

And may i ask if there are any books about the pandora, or articles or any new videos? I've seen most of the videos in the video vault. And is there an IRC channel to discuss the pandora. I have searched the internet for an IRC channel but no luck so far

THank you,

Cheers.

 

[lulzfish]

The Pandora will be able to compile its own software, yes.
However, there aren't any books because the Pandora's still not even out.

I think there is a #pandora at irc.freenode.net, but it's not active at all. The forum is like a giant IRC channel, really.

 

[desijays]

I just got onto #pandora and it is sooo empty, that i found myself all alone in the channel ! : ( I guess everyone's busy on the forums !

 

[gruso]

I just got onto #pandora and it is sooo empty, that i found myself all alone in the channel ! : ( I guess everyone's busy on the forums !
This is also a very quiet time of day for GP32Xers in general. Have a look at the forum index page, not many online at all.

Where I am now it's 3.30pm. It'll be midnight before the forums are really active again.

 

[valhalla]

Yes, it will be possible to compile software on the pandora and to crosscompile it on a faster pc, the latter being probably standard for big projects.

As for the OS, the default mode will probably hide most of the linux stuff behind a nice simplified interface where you should just be able to drop games / apps on an SD and they would work. For people who want/need a bit more there will be a desktop/advanced interface.

Since the pandora will be able to boot other systems from an SD slot, there are ports of a few other systems, either planned, in developement or even already working; among those are ubuntu, gentoo, android and some *BSD; probably debian will work, but not very optimized.
AFAIK arch does not support ARM, so it won't be available in the near future, but the trend in the linux world seems to be toward more ARM support, so we may see something interesting in the near future.

 

[torpor]

QUOTE
You can even install your own OS if you so choose. Compare and contrast with the likes of Nintendo's DS and Sony's PSP - you have to fight the manufacturers every step of the way to get unsigned code running.



This is both an advantage and a hindrance. Consider the case for 3rd-party developers: what API do they target? What is the 'standard' set of tools they can rely on for the majority of their users?

If everyone is just installing something else, and if the factory OS doesn't actually push forward to become *the target* for 3rd party developers, then there is going to be a very interesting reaction, I predict: People will ship SD cards pre-installed with their apps in order to attain market-share, and the factory OS will be trivialized.

Nintendo being the canonical source of an Operating System for their hardware means that 3rd-party developers can depend on the platform. As it is right now, with all the choices in the embedded Linux world, it is *very* difficult to target a commercial application towards Linux without running into major difficulties. The fracture is very evident.

So a hardware-based approach, with a good team supporting the standardized OS for that hardware, really needs to keep this in mind. I'm really, really hoping that Angstrom as a standard OS base for the Pandora means that we developers can just target that distro and release working apps for it .. if things start to fracture, then I will just say "put it on SD and ship *that* to the end user instead of an app binary" and be done with the whole problem, personally .. and professionally. And I'm not so sure thats a good thing.

What I'd like to see, shortly after Pandora release: an official OpenPandora repository configured at the factory, and access to that repo granted to those developers who want to make it as easy as possible for end-users to get their software. This has to be run as tightly as possible so that massive fracture in the field doesn't cocur. Craig and Co., consider this a plea from a 3rd-party developer to put some effort into this as much as possible in the near future, and consider me volunteering for whatever position can help to make sure that the public repo scene is as well-maintained as possible. I know there have been lots of discussions about it - but I think it needs repeating, until done.

Of course, there is a magic button in this mess o' wires: compiler-on-board. If each Pandora contains everything needed to develop apps for the Pandora, and if it does in fact work well enough to support development (compile speeds be damned: I don't mind waiting if its actually going to work well in the end), then perhaps we'll see less and less fracture. I have a theory that the reason things fracture so easily in the embedded-Linux world is due to the hassles of cross-compiling and multiple-target management .. compiler-on-board, and 'package-builder-and-upload-to-the-standard-public-repo-onboard' would go a long way towards solving this problem. I personally don't think its going to be such a hassle to wait for projects to build Pandora-onboard if it means that it'll be really, really easy to distribute the results from the device itself. I would urge the devs to consider closing the Angstrom holes and putting a means of adding a built-package to the repo *onboard each Pandora as standard*.

 

[rabidpoobear]

QUOTE
You can even install your own OS if you so choose. Compare and contrast with the likes of Nintendo's DS and Sony's PSP - you have to fight the manufacturers every step of the way to get unsigned code running.

What I'd like to see, shortly after Pandora release: an official OpenPandora repository configured at the factory, and access to that repo granted to those developers who want to make it as easy as possible for end-users to get their software. This has to be run as tightly as possible so that massive fracture in the field doesn't cocur. Craig and Co., consider this a plea from a 3rd-party developer to put some effort into this as much as possible in the near future, and consider me volunteering for whatever position can help to make sure that the public repo scene is as well-maintained as possible. I know there have been lots of discussions about it - but I think it needs repeating, until done.



I think perhaps you're overestimating market uptake of Pandora and underestimating capability of its users.
I doubt there's going to be a "massive fracture in the field." So long as a distro has support for all the libraries that your program uses, there's no reason you have to target a program at a specific distro.
That being said, I'm pretty sure there will be a repo for Pandora software. I don't think it necessarily has to be run by OP.