ekianjo
Hardcore Member
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Planet Computers : Gemini - Psion Returns
- Thread starter pmprog
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levi
Still fresh, damnit!
To be fair, I've not seen them state what voltage those 8000mAh are at. Maybe it's a 0.3V battery, so in terms of energy density you could consider it like a 647mAh battery at 3.7V 
This looks extremely appealing, much more so than the GPD products, excepted the choice of screen:
- glossy (which the Psion wasn't)
- what is that resolution for ?
Still I prefer the Pyra for the screen, I/O ports, game controls.
- glossy (which the Psion wasn't)
- what is that resolution for ?
Still I prefer the Pyra for the screen, I/O ports, game controls.
Swordfish II
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Or try the wilds of Alaska, Africa, all over Canada and the Arctic... but funny thing in those places I wasn't too concerned about using my electronics....
Any place you would need to use it you would also have a network soooo.......
I find this funny though because it all came about when you went "only two USB ports.. How can i transfer files, charge, and use a mouse," so Ibrought up wireless transfers. Then it's "well in going to be at the ends of the earth with no connection transferring files, charging, and using a mouse."
So yeah dude... You are obtuse.
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This is definitely going to be my next phone! I'll still get the Pyra once Link has them and I've put aside enough money, but this will likely be my main Android/Linux device. Pyra is still attractive to me as a Linux machine with BOTH keyboard and gamepad as I'd rather keep my Win on Windows. I'd rather keep my various use cases on separate devices. Of course that means more machines cluttering my house, but.....IT MEANS MORE MACHINES CLUTTERING MY HOUSE
Anyway, I would've liked it more if it also had a gamepad, but I do understand it's mobile productivity device and I'll be buying it for that and as my new phone. It would've been even nicer if it had an active digitizer with pen to make it the ultimate productivity phone, though.
I'll keep hoping some other (most likely Chinese....) company to release an Android handheld with GPad and KB. And yes, I know Pyra could run Android, but I want to keep as much storage on my future Pyra as possible for just one OS/distro and have a separate device for Android gaming/apps. And no, I won't buy a second Pyra nor will I sacrifice my Pandora to the Android gods.
[doublepost=1488337648,1488333200][/doublepost]Seems like he explains some stuff here, but I'm sure most everyone here wants to see it for real first, as words are just words.
Though if I'm reading things correctly, it would seem the main board with the SoC and almost everything else is sitting behind the screen in the lid while the bottom only houses the keyboard, battery, and ports?
Anyway, I would've liked it more if it also had a gamepad, but I do understand it's mobile productivity device and I'll be buying it for that and as my new phone. It would've been even nicer if it had an active digitizer with pen to make it the ultimate productivity phone, though.
I'll keep hoping some other (most likely Chinese....) company to release an Android handheld with GPad and KB. And yes, I know Pyra could run Android, but I want to keep as much storage on my future Pyra as possible for just one OS/distro and have a separate device for Android gaming/apps. And no, I won't buy a second Pyra nor will I sacrifice my Pandora to the Android gods.
[doublepost=1488337648,1488333200][/doublepost]Seems like he explains some stuff here, but I'm sure most everyone here wants to see it for real first, as words are just words.
Though if I'm reading things correctly, it would seem the main board with the SoC and almost everything else is sitting behind the screen in the lid while the bottom only houses the keyboard, battery, and ports?
vcoleiro1
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I think we have all thought about how exactly they will fit a 8000mAh battery in there given it's thiness.
The other thing though, how are they going to put any significant cooling solution in there? A heat sink other than a thin piece of metal is out of the question. And I'd say a fan is out of the question
[doublepost=1488340264,1488338138][/doublepost]Charbax just interviewed the Gemini team at MWC. They show the Gemini case/model as it exists now. No internals , and it seems clear to me that they have yet to develop the internal HW. As they say, it's at concept stage. I get the feeling they are working backwords, ie case first, then trying to design and fit the HW promised within that.
The other thing though, how are they going to put any significant cooling solution in there? A heat sink other than a thin piece of metal is out of the question. And I'd say a fan is out of the question
[doublepost=1488340264,1488338138][/doublepost]Charbax just interviewed the Gemini team at MWC. They show the Gemini case/model as it exists now. No internals , and it seems clear to me that they have yet to develop the internal HW. As they say, it's at concept stage. I get the feeling they are working backwords, ie case first, then trying to design and fit the HW promised within that.
MrConfusion
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Do they need to?
The SOC is obviously well tuned for battery saving (lots of different kinds of cores for different uses).
Since this is not a gaming machine they could just think: let it clock down if it needs to.
Or rather: If it ever needs to clock up, the juice is there.
It's different for the Pyra when people dream of... I dunno... PS3 emulation at full speed and FPS or whatever...
I have a feeling what's going to happen eventually is: they will make the base thicker as needed, since the "lid" is where the action is. The base should really be considered as a kind of Surface keyboard with battery. And they are so "trusting" when it comes to upcoming design considerations, because the lid is very likely very close to some reference phone design they try to keep "as is" as far as possible.
Call me stupid but I'm not worried about the physical design, heating, or anything like that. Just look at the people in the photos: Young and hip gamers, are they?
A few millimiters post project start is nothing to the target audience.
No, I'm purely worried about the software, especially the Linux side. Mostly I'm worried it's realistically speaking out of their hands before the project has even begun... :-(.
S
sulu
Guest
As I suspected, you really ARE just a tourist. You've never left "civilization".
Talk to me again when you've run a debug session at a meteorologic station at the antarctic cost with a shaky and expensive satellite link!
I'm done here.
mius
"Very suitable for woman’s delicate fingers!1!!"
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That shall only be regarded as admissable if you used Windows CE from within an ARM Linux!1!!
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vcoleiro1
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I've got to admit, and I'll be honest here, I have my doubts about the Gemini. It looks awesome, and I want to get on board the Gemini train so bad. But, the warning lights are flashing.
I'd say that if the Gemini does come to market, it will look a lot different and be a lot thicker to accomodate the battery
There is just too many things that concern me with the Gemini. They seem to be doing a PGS, putting together a case design and then trying to retro fit wishfull HW into it. The similarities between this and the PGS are scary IMO, the video showing lots of design drawings , the over the top objectives. etc. They haven't even chosen a flavour of Linux to go on it. And I also question whether as people have mentioned, they checked if Linux is even something that can be feasibly put on a Mediatek device. I think it's also missleading that they continue to say they have a working model, and then in the video show it as if people are actually using it. Considering it's never shown switched on, I strongly believe that by working model , they mean a working case and hinge etc. ie the term term working model as opposed to working prototype
But hey, this is just my opinion and guess. Nothing more.
I'd say that if the Gemini does come to market, it will look a lot different and be a lot thicker to accomodate the battery
There is just too many things that concern me with the Gemini. They seem to be doing a PGS, putting together a case design and then trying to retro fit wishfull HW into it. The similarities between this and the PGS are scary IMO, the video showing lots of design drawings , the over the top objectives. etc. They haven't even chosen a flavour of Linux to go on it. And I also question whether as people have mentioned, they checked if Linux is even something that can be feasibly put on a Mediatek device. I think it's also missleading that they continue to say they have a working model, and then in the video show it as if people are actually using it. Considering it's never shown switched on, I strongly believe that by working model , they mean a working case and hinge etc. ie the term term working model as opposed to working prototype
But hey, this is just my opinion and guess. Nothing more.
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Swordfish II
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.... I lived in Homer Alaska for 2 years..... working all over AK and spent months on the Aleutian chain, shit I even did the first ever hydrographic survey on the Kuskokwim River. I was in the Arctic for 6 months FOR WORK so yeah I am aware of comms issues. I ended up having to use a relay station and HF. I mean I could tell you more but you will disregard all that anyway.
...you are still being obtuse... 99% of people will not use this anywhere close to remote areas. Your assessment based on ONE TIME you were somewhere remote is ridiculous. It is a cell phone, for use by most people in normal conditions.
[doublepost=1488393808,1488379651][/doublepost]
The good old Jornada's, brings back memories with Jlime
b_o_b
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Exactly what I was thinking. They seem to have a guy on board that can design a nice keyboard, have a general idea but it looks like they still need to figure out the rest. On the other hand GPD doesn't have a working GPD Pocket prototype as well as far as I know. So it is basically a matter of do you trust that the company is capable and able. Not much known about the Gemini team and creating a device with these specs isn't an easy task. I also miss detailed and technical answers to questions on their indiegogo page (comment section).
Folks that like to gamble can still buy the Gemini for $349. Almost sold out though. 521 out of 600 claimed so I guess tomorrow the price will be $399
Question remains, do you want to take that risk for a 50$ discount..
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
Yes, this is reminiscent of that modular phone thing that I've forgotten the name of that was floated late last year I think by some dutch sounding feller. It's a case design, so I've no idea why both have them have decided to google what a modern hardware spec is and add a bit, then pretend it'll fit in the case they've just designed.
Doing the case design first is one way of working, and one that designers do all of the time. It's just that normally that stuff only goes out in press releases and things, gets refined and reworked once hardware engineers get involved and they don't try to hawk it as a finished device on IGG and at MWC at this stage.
Doing the case design first is one way of working, and one that designers do all of the time. It's just that normally that stuff only goes out in press releases and things, gets refined and reworked once hardware engineers get involved and they don't try to hawk it as a finished device on IGG and at MWC at this stage.
Ah....I'm starting to get PGS flashbacks now. So all they have at the moment is just the housing with the new hinge. Still better than the PGS and Smach, which both ONLY had renders.
Still, I'm starting to wonder how well they can pull this off.
At least this time there's a person on the project with a REAL track record and an ACTUAL reputation to uphold, if that matters at all to him.
I'm not entirely sure if I want to use this as a phone anymore either. It's starting to seem like using this as a "phone" will be the exact same thing as using the Pyra as a "phone".
Still, I'm starting to wonder how well they can pull this off.
At least this time there's a person on the project with a REAL track record and an ACTUAL reputation to uphold, if that matters at all to him.
I'm not entirely sure if I want to use this as a phone anymore either. It's starting to seem like using this as a "phone" will be the exact same thing as using the Pyra as a "phone".
MrConfusion
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No... This isn't as bad as PGS, I think the goals for this are realistic. This thing is far less a Transformers-grade scifi movie prop than the PGS. Simply not being Intel based goes a long way: phones already exist which use the MediaTek SOC... now show me the _phones_ with top grade Atoms in them?
This is not "totally not done before", this is "almost done before".
BUT as I stated above: I wouldn't (and didn't) preorder this as the deciding factor is how the software support is handled after launch. Simply glancing at the specs and landing there from the context of this site nearly made me order it, but after more careful digging I decided to wait and see.
The software support might be fine! In which case getting it for half the price is a wonderful deal. Or it might never do the somewhat "non core" things we're expecting to have in the context set in these forums by the Pyra.
One thing is for sure: This thing is no Pyra competitor - even less so than the GPD Win is. This is not for geeks or gamers.
One has to understand the mindset behind this project: my hunch is what you can expect from this is an "out of box Psion experience" nothing more, nothing less. That is what they are aiming for and what they are ready to support. That flashback to 90s is there in the backs of the heads doing this project.
And that experience has little to do with what someone familiar with gaming ready smartphones and Raspberry Pis has in mind! Really, it was a different world and a different category of a cardboard box to be opened back in those days.
Off the top of my head I can't remember whether the Psion shipped with any games at all, for example!
(I do remember that the Palm ecosystem quickly gained far more gaming support.)
For hackerish people the Psion came back to life when Linux was hacked to work in it at a sufficient usability level.
My advice before preordering: Don't expect _anything_ other than rudimentary PIM functionality to be supported well. Yes, of course you can dump Android apps into it, but be prepared to use them much like in your phone, except when you tap on a text field and no onscreen keyboard pops up. Expect genuine worry from the team when Office or Evernote do not play nice with whatever customizations they might add to the OS... and total radio silence when a game only works via touchscreen as normal (or stutters due to overheating).
And don't forget Android apps aren't open source for most part, so forget about fixing things yourself...
As for Linux: don't hold your breath! It might be okayish a year or two after launch _if_ the HW vendors involved give their blessing. It won't be a focus point for support, though and the team will be perfecting the Android part (which work they seem to be underestimating). So it'll likely be up to the community to perfect Linux on it. The question then becomes did enough of the hackerish types get this or have they pointed their sights to other devices...
This was the big IF for me. If I'm wrong I'll be spanking myself with a blunt object for a considerable while for missing the preorder :-(.
But basically what I want is a pocket computer capable of compiling itself to a fully running state from the ground up from day one. Thus being something I can (given time) mold to my taste.
The GPD gadget had no chance in ... to provide that feature. Neither does this one, I'm betting. The Pyra does it by default!
Oh and by the way: I would not be surprised if telephony on Linux would be basically ignored on the Gemini (including SMS).
The focus of this project is clearly not in making phone calls anyway - not even on Android, but at least there the hard lifting has been done in the software side of things by Google&Co.
But yeah, the point: I don't think these guys can't deliver... they will... it's just that it'll be their version that gets delivered, not neccessarily a geek's version.
This is not "totally not done before", this is "almost done before".
BUT as I stated above: I wouldn't (and didn't) preorder this as the deciding factor is how the software support is handled after launch. Simply glancing at the specs and landing there from the context of this site nearly made me order it, but after more careful digging I decided to wait and see.
The software support might be fine! In which case getting it for half the price is a wonderful deal. Or it might never do the somewhat "non core" things we're expecting to have in the context set in these forums by the Pyra.
One thing is for sure: This thing is no Pyra competitor - even less so than the GPD Win is. This is not for geeks or gamers.
One has to understand the mindset behind this project: my hunch is what you can expect from this is an "out of box Psion experience" nothing more, nothing less. That is what they are aiming for and what they are ready to support. That flashback to 90s is there in the backs of the heads doing this project.
And that experience has little to do with what someone familiar with gaming ready smartphones and Raspberry Pis has in mind! Really, it was a different world and a different category of a cardboard box to be opened back in those days.
Off the top of my head I can't remember whether the Psion shipped with any games at all, for example!
(I do remember that the Palm ecosystem quickly gained far more gaming support.)
For hackerish people the Psion came back to life when Linux was hacked to work in it at a sufficient usability level.
My advice before preordering: Don't expect _anything_ other than rudimentary PIM functionality to be supported well. Yes, of course you can dump Android apps into it, but be prepared to use them much like in your phone, except when you tap on a text field and no onscreen keyboard pops up. Expect genuine worry from the team when Office or Evernote do not play nice with whatever customizations they might add to the OS... and total radio silence when a game only works via touchscreen as normal (or stutters due to overheating).
And don't forget Android apps aren't open source for most part, so forget about fixing things yourself...
As for Linux: don't hold your breath! It might be okayish a year or two after launch _if_ the HW vendors involved give their blessing. It won't be a focus point for support, though and the team will be perfecting the Android part (which work they seem to be underestimating). So it'll likely be up to the community to perfect Linux on it. The question then becomes did enough of the hackerish types get this or have they pointed their sights to other devices...
This was the big IF for me. If I'm wrong I'll be spanking myself with a blunt object for a considerable while for missing the preorder :-(.
But basically what I want is a pocket computer capable of compiling itself to a fully running state from the ground up from day one. Thus being something I can (given time) mold to my taste.
The GPD gadget had no chance in ... to provide that feature. Neither does this one, I'm betting. The Pyra does it by default!
Oh and by the way: I would not be surprised if telephony on Linux would be basically ignored on the Gemini (including SMS).
The focus of this project is clearly not in making phone calls anyway - not even on Android, but at least there the hard lifting has been done in the software side of things by Google&Co.
But yeah, the point: I don't think these guys can't deliver... they will... it's just that it'll be their version that gets delivered, not neccessarily a geek's version
.
ClockworkCoder
Chaotic Neutral
As many have said already, the software is a concern.
If the Pyra wasn't an option I would have snapped this up in a heartbeat, but with lack of having controls, upgradability, and comprehensive Linux support, it would just be a temporary, infrequently used gadget.
I'm also divided about the keyboard. It's great that it's larger, but touch typing would likely be tough, and it makes it not as portable; can't easily type while standing with it.
I'm also uncertain about cooling. If any handheld device needs active cooling, then I'm definitely not interested. Don't think this device will have a fan or not, but I did think I saw vents.
I do think it's a cool project though.
If the Pyra wasn't an option I would have snapped this up in a heartbeat, but with lack of having controls, upgradability, and comprehensive Linux support, it would just be a temporary, infrequently used gadget.
I'm also divided about the keyboard. It's great that it's larger, but touch typing would likely be tough, and it makes it not as portable; can't easily type while standing with it.
I'm also uncertain about cooling. If any handheld device needs active cooling, then I'm definitely not interested. Don't think this device will have a fan or not, but I did think I saw vents.
I do think it's a cool project though.
vcoleiro1
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Well I look forward to when they return from MWC and start answering peoples questions in the campaign comment section . I say that because most of the concerns expressed here have been asked by backers in the comment section and are waiting on a reply
Not so. This is a growing niche (which will get saturated sooner than we think), which means the more alternatives, the larger the consumer pool gets. The more alternatives the more the Pyra needs to be showing off what they CAN do additionally.. and hopefully, it will be enough to convince consumers at that pricepoint.
Pandora came on time for GP2X's continuation timeline. It had production problems... which delayed Pyra by a few years... pity, but we can not change the past.
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