Perfect camera for Pyra/Pandora?

[Djoga'Ro]

Being able to do voice calls is several layers -down- the priority list.

That's your list. Mine is entirely different in that regard.

The Pyra isn't a 'terrible camera-less smartphone'. It isn't a smartphone at all

To me, it's the smarterest phone ever.

What about all the center-of-the-universe attitude? Are you Catholic?

 

[Silent-Hunter]

There is also no physical volume/void to put a camera into.

I think people keep confusing the Pyra with a smartphone. It isn't one. It is a pocket computer with gaming controls that is available with an optional 4G data connection. The chip that handles the 4G data could, theoretically, also service voice connections.

Being able to do voice calls is several layers -down- the priority list.

The Pyra isn't primarily meant to be a phone replacement. It could wind up being one for a few people - who are willing to make the appropriate compromises. One of those compromises is the lack of a built in camera.

The Pyra isn't a 'terrible camera-less smartphone'. It isn't a smartphone at all - the base version doesn't even have 4G capabilities in it. The 4G capable version is meant to be a data connector - not a phone. Unlike nearly every 'connected tablet', there is nothing preventing it from also servicing voice calls if your SIM card and 4G provider allow for it - and if you can hack the software together to do it..

I fully intend to use it as a smartphone, but I also understand that's not its primary use case.

 

[_jr_]

A camera wasn't voted down by the community. IIRC it was never seriously considered at all by ED, because of complexity and size.

 

[levi]

I'm not sure how you can know that, unless you've been having secret discussions with ED. IIRC a camera was mooted in very early discussions of what the then titled 'pandora 2' should look like, and largely looked down upon by people who already had a good camera/were concerned about privacy/other. It didn't surprise me that ED's design didn't therefore include a camera, although strictly speaking whether he was influenced by discussions is for him to know and for us to speculate upon endlessly

 

[jeeks]

as someone who likes to take snapshots of everything, i'd love to have a camera in every device i own.
but, as someone who also likes to watch videos while changing clothes/showering, i'd love to have at least one piece of hardware without a camera so i don't have to defile its design with an ugly sticker.

personally, i like the idea of pyra plus detachable usb cam that fits into the carrying case. for quick snapshots, i'll just continue using my phone/3DS/PSVita/laptop/tablet and sync the data whenever i have time.

 

[Penguin-Guru]

Yeah, the Pyra definitely isn't designed to be a phone, it's much more. I didn't mean to suggest that it's worse by any means, just making my case for why I wish it had a (good) camera. I would also prefer it not have a camera than include one of those ubiquitous 2MP, front-facing cameras without a cover.

For the record, there's really no difference between a phone and a pocket computer these days. I do a significant amount of my personal computing on my cellphone, far more than I actually use it as a cellphone really. I don't think I will be using my standard cellular service for it either, probably SIP. In that respect, my desktop P.C. is also a phone. The line between phone and P.C. is really blurry these days so there's probably no point in comparison. I do plan to have a Pyra replace my laptop, and my laptop has already largely replaced my desktop. I don't use cameras on my desktops or laptops at all so I'm definitely not saying a camera is "necessary", just that it's a useful tool to have in your pocket at any given time. The flash/light alone has really saved me in some situations.

If we're talking about ideal placement, I think the theoretical best place would be a rotary underneath the display, which could point a single camera and flash/lighting either (A) toward the user, (B) away from the user, (C) somewhat downward, and (D) inward, so that the case blocks the camera entirely. This mechanism could, theoretically, have physical detents to lightly secure the camera in each position and be actuated by rotation from the side(s) like a rotary dial. That's my imagination anyway. It should be pretty secure and allow for maximal utility while preserving privacy. Of course, that's not a mod but a full redesign. For a mod, simply including a decent camera to the back of the lid or bottom of the system would meet my needs nicely.

 

[levi]

One problem with putting it on the hinge, is that with the lid fully open like on our Pandoras there's no angle around the hinge that's not oriented towards the user. It's arranged like a DS hinge, so the rear of the hinge is completely covered by the case (or you'd get large bits of keyboard in your photos). There's no way to use the screen like a viewfinder and take a photo of what's in front of you if it's on the hinge, unless you hold it open at roughtly 90 degrees and make the keyboard and game controls useless.

The only ways I can see it work are a camera on the inside and one on the outside of the lid, if that pesky LCD weren't in the way, or as I mentioned before, having a dedicated camera in your pocket, and your Pyra in your bag.

 

[Penguin-Guru]

Good point. Maybe the camera(s) could pop out from the side(s) of the hinges and then be rotated (symmetrically)?

I don't really care about the inward-facing camera myself, and I don't think I have the skills to mod a camera onto the lid, but I'll definitely be curious to see what other people end up doing. Having separate inward and outward facing cameras always seems like such a waste, but I'm sure it is cost effective.

Too bad cameras can't take pictures through display panels by compensating for the massive colour saturation, huh?

 

[Silent-Hunter]

Everyone keeps on saying that the Pyra is not a phone. But, realistically, what is a phone these days anyway?

My phone systems have all been VOIP for 10 years and I can make calls from ANY device that can run a SIP client. Our new email system has video conferencing built in, so on top of the telephone system going software, the calls are moving to the web for any devices that supports webrtc. Literally, all workstations are having their monitors replaced with ones that have cam, mic and speakers built (HP) so that every single workstation is fully conference capable (to catch up to laptops).

I also intend to absolutely use it to place voip calls via 4g + bluetooth capability. It's not going to be nice to use at all at first, but who knows. Maybe some hacking will make it okayish.

I feel mostly the same way, but I do hope I can still use POTS with it.

 

[Penguin-Guru]

For what it's worth, PoTS should have better coverage and better signal permeation in general. The signal quality may be limited but it probably operates at a much lower frequency in most regions. I don't know if this is still the case or if it will continue to be once 5G rolls out but traditional telephone service has prime spectrum allocation since it was first to market.

Counter-point: it's much easier for non-telco entities to host LTE access-points than actual cellphone towers. As a result, many places (like subway tunnels and shopping malls) will have better data coverage than traditional cellphone service.

Having both is obviously the best option if it's convenient.

 

[levi]

The main problems to using POTS on a Pyra would be I assume it doesn't come with the two screw terminals to wire it up, and having wired it up it would limit its portability, or maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

 

[Silent-Hunter]

The main problems to using POTS on a Pyra would be I assume it doesn't come with the two screw terminals to wire it up, and having wired it up it would limit its portability, or maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

I mean the cellular connection to POTS. If I use SIP or some other voip service, I'm using data which is not unlimited. If I make a regular phone call I can talk as much as I want. Also SIP can't call regular phone numbers can it?

 

[levi]

I assume there are still POTS outs for SIP/VOIP services - pretty sure there used to be. Problem is paying for it; you'd need an out you have a billing relationship with because it'll cost them by the minute to call anywhere. On a metered connection like most cellular ones then you'd end up paying twice for the calls, which is guaranteed to be more expensive than calls to your home country I'd have thought (though it could be a novel way to call foreign countries more cheaply, if you can find an out in the target country).

 

[Silent-Hunter]

Ah my cellular connection is unmetered, at least for voice and SMS. But data is metered.

 

[Penguin-Guru]

There are many "SIP trunk" providers who will issue you a phone number and transcode signals to the mainstream telephone network on your behalf. You can also set up your own P.B.X. (e.g. Asterisk) and plug it into PoTS via RJ-11. There are specialised PCI(e) cards for that, or you might be able to find drivers to use generic hardware, I'm not sure about that.

 

[ingoreis]

I saw a good Place on the Pyra for an Internal Camera.

In the rescent Prototypes we have no Logo on the Top of the Pyra.
That Hole seem to be big enough for Internal Cameras.

Maybe someone Build in the Future a Camera here inside.

A Camera is realy needed for me because i use Telegram and Messengers.
And i can make Posts here with the Pyra with Pictures and without shoot the Photo with another Device.

I like the Idea of a Pyra Camera and in this Hole...
...is it Possible

 

[NetBLOKS]

The new Psion Project announced an external camera module.
Maybe that will be a fitting solution after disassembly.

 

[levi]

A Camera is realy needed for me because i use Telegram and Messengers.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding how you use telegram and your other messengers, but wouldn't you rather have an internally facing camera so that you conversational companion can see your face?

 

[ingoreis]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding how you use telegram and your other messengers, but wouldn't you rather have an internally facing camera so that you conversational companion can see your face?

Because i want to write Messages.
I do not like Video Phoning.

The Camera for me is only used for Snapshots of Things

Telegram is for me used for Snapshots,Send Messages,Gifs,Files,short VoiceMessages...but not for Phoning

 

[levi]

I would suggest then that you get a half-decent pocket camera. since you'll have to be wearing a big coat or taking a bag to carry your Pyra around, I'd propose you could also carry a camera quite easily. You can get quite good pocketable cameras from a generation or two ago for around 200 of the major world currencies, which should be affordable if you've got a pyra preorder.